Massa - Last Season in F1?
Discussion
Cards on the table - I don't rate Massa and never have done. This season though he's been going on of his way to prove my some what bigoted view.
For the most part of his career he's been beaten by his team mates but this year Botta's seems in a different league to him.
He's often gotten into tangles but again this year forever tripping over others or through qualifying mistakes placing himself amongst slower cars at the start of a race. Seems most of the incidents where he genuinely wasn't to blame he shouldn't have been there in the first place. And same old Massa it's ALWAYS someone else's fault.
People talk of his consistency but the only consistency I see is his ability to blame everyone else.
So what am I missing? What is it he brings, other than Brazilian money, that makes him worth retaining? I cannot see it.
For the most part of his career he's been beaten by his team mates but this year Botta's seems in a different league to him.
He's often gotten into tangles but again this year forever tripping over others or through qualifying mistakes placing himself amongst slower cars at the start of a race. Seems most of the incidents where he genuinely wasn't to blame he shouldn't have been there in the first place. And same old Massa it's ALWAYS someone else's fault.
People talk of his consistency but the only consistency I see is his ability to blame everyone else.
So what am I missing? What is it he brings, other than Brazilian money, that makes him worth retaining? I cannot see it.
He's always done a really good job for his team. I mean, for years he has been leaving the inside wide open into a corner and turning into the car that takes the opportunity, wiping out the competition. Although I have noticed that this year, when an opponent tries to pass him on the outside, he no longer runs them off the circuit, so his skills are fading a little.
"Massa" and "racing room", never words to be put together without "didn't leave" and followed in an interview by "it was all his fault".
Cards on the table... never rated him at all as a racer. Fights lost causes and blames everyone else when he is stepping over the Armco.
"Massa" and "racing room", never words to be put together without "didn't leave" and followed in an interview by "it was all his fault".
Cards on the table... never rated him at all as a racer. Fights lost causes and blames everyone else when he is stepping over the Armco.
I've never been a huge fan but he can produce the goods as he once did, albeit briefly, at Ferrari. He's good enough though and brings some useful financing to Williams. If they can hold on to Bottas, develop the car and all live happily with each other then it should work for a few years. Post-Williams I assume retirement beckons though.
rscott said:
Massa's signed a 3 year deal with Williams so I think will be around a bit longer
Means little. Williams have surprised even themselves with their pace. If they get more sponsors for next season, Massa will be gone.He seems to be a lovely bloke but his moment has passed. Time for someone else IMO.
toppstuff said:
Means little. Williams have surprised even themselves with their pace. If they get more sponsors for next season, Massa will be gone.
They've had the performance but come Sunday it hasn't always translated into points. How much of that is down to the team and how much the drivers?carinaman said:
They've had the performance but come Sunday it hasn't always translated into points. How much of that is down to the team and how much the drivers?
It largely depends if the driver can get his competitive car to the flag intact. Bottas seems to be doing that very well having more than twice the points of his "consistently unlucky with accidents" team mate.Obviously, these days and for some time now, if you do not have a competitive car, there is little you can do to drag it to finishes that would truly flatter it. Sure, Fred and a couple of others do very well, but even Fred is not going to win a straight fight against a better car without strategy or some other external factor having an effect.
As someone once said, to finish first, first you have to finish. Massa obviously wasn't listening and continues to fight individual lost cause corners, which is very tough on his team.
Top marks for spirit though... There, I was positive about Felipe (spit)
Don't underestimate the appeal of a strong #2 driver who works as well in the garage as he does on the track.
I think that his lack of pace is being overstated here, qualifying pace with Alonso was always comparable and generally he sits somewhere near Bottas on the grid now that the order has settled down somewhat.
He does seem to like 'taking his line' though, regardless of whoever might've already set their heart on it.
I think that his lack of pace is being overstated here, qualifying pace with Alonso was always comparable and generally he sits somewhere near Bottas on the grid now that the order has settled down somewhat.
He does seem to like 'taking his line' though, regardless of whoever might've already set their heart on it.
BritishRacinGrin said:
Don't underestimate the appeal of a strong #2 driver who works as well in the garage as he does on the track.
I think that his lack of pace is being overstated here, qualifying pace with Alonso was always comparable and generally he sits somewhere near Bottas on the grid now that the order has settled down somewhat.
He does seem to like 'taking his line' though, regardless of whoever might've already set their heart on it.
Very much agree.I think that his lack of pace is being overstated here, qualifying pace with Alonso was always comparable and generally he sits somewhere near Bottas on the grid now that the order has settled down somewhat.
He does seem to like 'taking his line' though, regardless of whoever might've already set their heart on it.
It seems some have forgotten that he got his act together a bit and on his day he could match Alonso whereas Kimi struggling now and usually blames it on the car.
I don't know what Bottas is like behind closed doors but Massa offers a lot of experience and brought in Rob Smedley now in technical operations.
It's a tricky one to call. As some say, Williams are an in demand team at the moment so it gives them wider choice in the driver market. If the "right" (better?) driver came along to help them continue their strong performances then they would probably jump at the chance to replace Massa. e.g.: Alonso?
I've always blown hot and cold about Massa, he seems to be a decent enough person and a reasonable driver but tends to blame everyone else for his own cock ups.
I've always blown hot and cold about Massa, he seems to be a decent enough person and a reasonable driver but tends to blame everyone else for his own cock ups.
I'd forgotten about these podcasts. Peter Windsor on Massa's mishaps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqYxQLzUPEo&li...
Windsor says Sir Frank Williams says something similar to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqYxQLzUPEo&li...
Windsor says Sir Frank Williams says something similar to this:
SeeFive said:
As someone once said, to finish first, first you have to finish. Massa obviously wasn't listening and continues to fight individual lost cause corners, which is very tough on his team.
Top marks for spirit though... There, I was positive about Felipe (spit)
Top marks for spirit though... There, I was positive about Felipe (spit)
Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 30th July 21:04
LHD said:
Don't forget for 30 seconds he was WDC in 2008 in a car that was a shadow of the McLaren in pure performance.
He's never been quite the same after Hungary 09 but he's exactly what Williams need right now.
That's one way of looking at it. Another is, maybe the McLaren in 2008 sucked compared to the Ferrari but because of Hamilton and Alonso it looked comparable to the brilliant Ferrari due to the massive gulf in driving skills betweem the teams. Alonso crushed Felipe for years, and is massacring Kimi "past it, can't be arsed, im so cool with my immature radio chat" Raikonnen right now.He's never been quite the same after Hungary 09 but he's exactly what Williams need right now.
That Ferrari in 2008 was a brilliant car IMO. Easily class of the field.
I'd forgotten about these podcasts. Peter Windsor on Massa's mishaps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqYxQLzUPEo&li...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqYxQLzUPEo&li...
Bottas may be outperforming him on track but it's at the factory where Massa's value and experience is really being felt, helping to develop the car and drive the team forward. I'm expecting them to be even stronger next year.
Massa has had a fair bit of bad luck. The Hockenheim retirement was his fault, but he was blameless in his Australia, Canada and Silverstone retirements. Plus he's still got fantastic pace on his day, he's been very solid in qualifying, not to mention grabbing the only non-Merc pole so far this year.
Massa has had a fair bit of bad luck. The Hockenheim retirement was his fault, but he was blameless in his Australia, Canada and Silverstone retirements. Plus he's still got fantastic pace on his day, he's been very solid in qualifying, not to mention grabbing the only non-Merc pole so far this year.
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