Vettel - luck or skill?
Discussion
Tc24 said:
I'm going to say skill.
I can't for the life of me remember which race (or even year!) it was, but he done something very similar in a free practice session once, only with a couple more rotations.
Austria IIRC.I can't for the life of me remember which race (or even year!) it was, but he done something very similar in a free practice session once, only with a couple more rotations.
I'd go with a bit of both. Lucky the snap was small enough to catch and the initial angle of rotation stopped where it did but he did everything right to prevent the car hitting the wall by what looked like a few centimetres!
Some luck and a lot of skill. Vettel had a nasty spin a few races ago and the camera clearly showed him lock the brakes and release them as the car was facing the right direction, and he span several times at once that time. Very skillful. I think we'd all be climbing in the boot gibbering if that happened to us.
Both, or neither or one of them - it's complex.
Can't argue SV cocked up going onto the wet astro - the spin was his fault. Poor skill.
As Martin B said, a "well balanced car will spin in a straighter line than a poorly balanced one" or something like that - the skill of the designers / mechanics and of course SV made that car well balanced. Skill.
Once the car span SV did (to my untrained eye) everything he could to avoid the wall, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight and slow-mo I don't think he could have done anything else - certainly a lessor driver would have found the wall. Skill
But ultimately, even with the perfectly balanced car and the super-quick reactions and correct input from the driver, if anyone of a thousand other variables had be different he would have crashed. Luck.
You can cut it a dozen ways - but for me he screwed up getting on the wet AstroTurf, once he did that the spin was inevitable and he had maybe a 50-50 chance of getting away with it - his skill and that of his team swayed it in his favour and his reactions sealed the deal - but even with all that - if lady luck, or more accurately a million, billion variables if you're more mathematically inclined weren't on his side - he would have binned it.
Can't argue SV cocked up going onto the wet astro - the spin was his fault. Poor skill.
As Martin B said, a "well balanced car will spin in a straighter line than a poorly balanced one" or something like that - the skill of the designers / mechanics and of course SV made that car well balanced. Skill.
Once the car span SV did (to my untrained eye) everything he could to avoid the wall, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight and slow-mo I don't think he could have done anything else - certainly a lessor driver would have found the wall. Skill
But ultimately, even with the perfectly balanced car and the super-quick reactions and correct input from the driver, if anyone of a thousand other variables had be different he would have crashed. Luck.
You can cut it a dozen ways - but for me he screwed up getting on the wet AstroTurf, once he did that the spin was inevitable and he had maybe a 50-50 chance of getting away with it - his skill and that of his team swayed it in his favour and his reactions sealed the deal - but even with all that - if lady luck, or more accurately a million, billion variables if you're more mathematically inclined weren't on his side - he would have binned it.
Floor Tom said:
Bit of both I think, Lucky that the car came around before hitting the wall, skill to let the brakes off at just the right time.
My thoughts exactly. Perez's car just did a hard right into the wall whereas Vettel's spun completely round. The brake release was definitely skill, the spin was a mistake and the bit in the middle lucky.Replay:
http://www.gfycat.com/TiredShockedAustraliankestre...
Does he let the break go as he comes parallel to the wall?
http://www.gfycat.com/TiredShockedAustraliankestre...
Does he let the break go as he comes parallel to the wall?
Probably a bit of both. Lucky that the wheels squared pit wall. On another occasion and higher velocity definitely won't be so lucky.
On separate note and perhaps related KMag didn't bother to cadence brake when he had his shunt into turn 1 whereas IIRC in Massa's accident when he was smacked in the head still tried to pump the brakes before hitting the tyre wall.
On separate note and perhaps related KMag didn't bother to cadence brake when he had his shunt into turn 1 whereas IIRC in Massa's accident when he was smacked in the head still tried to pump the brakes before hitting the tyre wall.
IainT said:
Austria IIRC.
I'd go with a bit of both. Lucky the snap was small enough to catch and the initial angle of rotation stopped where it did but he did everything right to prevent the car hitting the wall by what looked like a few centimetres!
Austria. His control was exquisite.I'd go with a bit of both. Lucky the snap was small enough to catch and the initial angle of rotation stopped where it did but he did everything right to prevent the car hitting the wall by what looked like a few centimetres!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy4uWOySFHQ
Ohhhhh haaaway.
If a super lightweight mid engined car is going to spit you off the road, but land you in a position where you can recover like that - 95% luck.
Ok, so catching it back - at the moment the spin ALLOWS you - takes a cool head, but i dare say anyone tuned into driving those things could pick that moment, with relative ease.
Again, people love to assume the driver has more input than they do. Once it's gone, it's gone. Not even Senna could bend physics (much as we'd all like to believe)
If a super lightweight mid engined car is going to spit you off the road, but land you in a position where you can recover like that - 95% luck.
Ok, so catching it back - at the moment the spin ALLOWS you - takes a cool head, but i dare say anyone tuned into driving those things could pick that moment, with relative ease.
Again, people love to assume the driver has more input than they do. Once it's gone, it's gone. Not even Senna could bend physics (much as we'd all like to believe)
THX said:
Ohhhhh haaaway.
If a super lightweight mid engined car is going to spit you off the road, but land you in a position where you can recover like that - 95% luck.
Ok, so catching it back - at the moment the spin ALLOWS you - takes a cool head, but i dare say anyone tuned into driving those things could pick that moment, with relative ease.
Again, people love to assume the driver has more input than they do. Once it's gone, it's gone. Not even Senna could bend physics (much as we'd all like to believe)
Now you've gorn and spoilt the whole illusion thing with a reality slant. If a super lightweight mid engined car is going to spit you off the road, but land you in a position where you can recover like that - 95% luck.
Ok, so catching it back - at the moment the spin ALLOWS you - takes a cool head, but i dare say anyone tuned into driving those things could pick that moment, with relative ease.
Again, people love to assume the driver has more input than they do. Once it's gone, it's gone. Not even Senna could bend physics (much as we'd all like to believe)
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