WTF? Bernie bribes his way out of bribery case?
Discussion
Bonefish Blues said:
I've never seen anyone in the public eye who gave less of a damn about PR. I think £60M figures much larger in Bernie's thoughts!
Ecclestone is all image. What do you think the 'Bernie says think before you drive' was around the circuits of the world but a PR stunt?
Derek Smith said:
A friend has suggested that there might well be another reason for the acceptance of the settlement. Given that there was the other settlement a couple of weeks ago, this of an additional £20m.
She's suggested medical reasons.
If the court is presented with evidence of, for instance, a life threatening illness, or perhaps some other medical reason, then this might well come within public interest. It would appear that all the prosecution evidence hasn't been presented. The reasons for this could have something to do with it as well, but I feel certain Haymarket would not appreciate the suggestions she came up with.
You mean Bernie's heart condition? That's well documented though so can't see them having an issue. It's also arguably why Bambino Holdings exists and he's divorced Slavica.She's suggested medical reasons.
If the court is presented with evidence of, for instance, a life threatening illness, or perhaps some other medical reason, then this might well come within public interest. It would appear that all the prosecution evidence hasn't been presented. The reasons for this could have something to do with it as well, but I feel certain Haymarket would not appreciate the suggestions she came up with.
Personally I think the reason for the acceptance of the settlement more prosaic than that. Purely down to maths and time spent in the German legal system. Oh and of course Germany losing the GP.
Agent Orange said:
You mean Bernie's heart condition? That's well documented though so can't see them having an issue. It's also arguably why Bambino Holdings exists and he's divorced Slavica.
Personally I think the reason for the acceptance of the settlement more prosaic than that. Purely down to maths and time spent in the German legal system. Oh and of course Germany losing the GP.
Wash your mind out with soap.Personally I think the reason for the acceptance of the settlement more prosaic than that. Purely down to maths and time spent in the German legal system. Oh and of course Germany losing the GP.
Mind you, any heart condition was not the reason my friend suggested Ecclestone wanted out of the two cases ($120m in a couple of weeks. That must have hurt). It seems (I didn't know this) that there are well documented side effects to such heart conditions, or rather the quadruple bypass.
Another thing: can you remember anyone else that rich who had three court cases within a year or so? All after his money, two of which they had to concede on.
So the suggestion that money will always win seems, on the face of it, not to apply for him.
My friend suggested that he would never have gone to prison.
Derek Smith said:
Bonefish Blues said:
I've never seen anyone in the public eye who gave less of a damn about PR. I think £60M figures much larger in Bernie's thoughts!
Ecclestone is all image. What do you think the 'Bernie says think before you drive' was around the circuits of the world but a PR stunt?Bonefish Blues said:
For F1, I agree. For himself, I don't think so. I think he's happiest when he has demonstrated for the nth time that he is considerably richer (and indeed more powerful)than yow.
Both aspects show a certain insecurity I think. What's the point of being one of the richest men in the country if you have to bother about what others think? Surely the point is that you don't have to care. His daughters seem to have cracked that aspect of being rich.I remember reading an article on him, well, the FIA presidency essentially, where it suggested that he needed Mosley as front man, a puppet really, as he, Ecclestone, would not be welcomed by posh people. It seemed a bit simplistic at first but I gradually got to think it was there or there-abouts. Then Mosley went against Ecclestone's advice, wanting to be a real boy I suppose. The one-car Indianapolis GP where Ecclestone's solution was ignored by his little me was something of a turning point I believe.
There was a contributor to Pitpass (I think, unlikely as it seems now with sycophancy seeming so strong for Ecclestone) who suggested that Mosley had some bridges to build or else his time at the helm was going to be short. One of the reasons given was that Ecclestone was now accepted in higher circles. Mind you, higher then meant those in charge of totalitarian regimes, so he seemed to fit in without problem.
For a while the income generated was quite high but then there were other moves by Mosely, which many saw as personal, which caused some problems with the teams and in particular manufacturers. This was likely to hurt Ecclestone, but luckily, by one of those freakish coincidences, Mosley was then outed.
It was somehow strangely reminiscent of the Balestra days, although he was more resistant to Ecclestone's requirements it seems. Then he, oddly after a court case he won with regards to naziism, disappeared from control despite being reassured that his reelection was assured.
Despite the coincidences between Balestra and Mosely, it is the differences that are most apparent. Balestra was self-made essentially and he left motor sport in a much stronger position than when he'd taken over. But then, despite the much deserved criticisms of his tenure, he was an enthusiast for the sport.
Derek Smith said:
Despite the coincidences between Balestra and Mosely, it is the differences that are most apparent. Balestra was self-made essentially and he left motor sport in a much stronger position than when he'd taken over. But then, despite the much deserved criticisms of his tenure, he was an enthusiast for the sport.
The thing I find most odd, whilst we're on the subject of FIA presidents, is why Jean Todt is so completely anonymous. Since taking over from Mosely we've barely seen him at a GP or heard anything from him. JonRB said:
The thing I find most odd, whilst we're on the subject of FIA presidents, is why Jean Todt is so completely anonymous. Since taking over from Mosely we've barely seen him at a GP or heard anything from him.
It's a good thing after past decades of snooping and meddling and wipe the slate clean; few good work came from Max era. A good example of the Todt era is the F1 Commission thingy that looked into Merc's illegal testing last year; Max would have wanted to be infront of the cameras and show the world who's bossnUnder Max, non F1 Motorsport was considerably weakened......hmm, I wonder who that could benefit? F1 and Bernie......
As a Sportscar and WRC fan, I'd love to see F1 struggle and weaken because of Bernie's lack of forward thinking. He doesn't promote, he just makes money; there is a difference.
As a Sportscar and WRC fan, I'd love to see F1 struggle and weaken because of Bernie's lack of forward thinking. He doesn't promote, he just makes money; there is a difference.
entropy said:
JonRB said:
The thing I find most odd, whilst we're on the subject of FIA presidents, is why Jean Todt is so completely anonymous. Since taking over from Mosely we've barely seen him at a GP or heard anything from him.
It's a good thing after past decades of snooping and meddling and wipe the slate clean; few good work came from Max era. A good example of the Todt era is the F1 Commission thingy that looked into Merc's illegal testing last year; Max would have wanted to be infront of the cameras and show the world who's bossnIf I have read it right, some of the press are reporting today that the bank involved in the fraud case have refused their part of the settlement. ($20million out of the $60million?).
Their choices appear to be either to sue for money or carry on the case as private prosecution.
Looks like Bernie might not yet have succeeded in making this go away.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207473/1/ecclestone-o...
Their choices appear to be either to sue for money or carry on the case as private prosecution.
Looks like Bernie might not yet have succeeded in making this go away.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207473/1/ecclestone-o...
The Hypno-Toad said:
If I have read it right, some of the press are reporting today that the bank involved in the fraud case have refused their part of the settlement. ($20million out of the $60million?).
Their choices appear to be either to sue for money or carry on the case as private prosecution.
Looks like Bernie might not yet have succeeded in making this go away.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207473/1/ecclestone-o...
I saw this in The Times yesterday.Their choices appear to be either to sue for money or carry on the case as private prosecution.
Looks like Bernie might not yet have succeeded in making this go away.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207473/1/ecclestone-o...
It would appear that Ecclestone's bid in the hope that the civil case would go away was seen as a bit of an insult. Ecclestone is, many might, trying to clear the decks and if so is probably planning to disappear into the ether. We can hope, I suppose.
He tried the $20m bid on the bribery case and that didn't work so this may well have inspired the litigant in this case. I'd love to see this go all the way as there are costs to be included. If he loses, he could end up out of pocket by more than £100m.
Whatever, the idea of the untouchable Ecclestone has taken a pounding. Or is that a dollaring?
37chevy said:
So if there was no concrete evidence of Bernie giving a bribe, how come there's a man banged up in prison for taking the bribe that technically now doesn't exist?
I don't think the decision to accept the $100m payout has anything to do with whether there is enough evidence. If we look at a hypothetical case - it is essential to accept this is not directly related to Ecclestone's case - we can see that there is a cost to running one that is contested. Further, on any case there is the factor of the bewildering verdict. Overwhelming evidence is sometimes not enough. Sop there is always a chance of default.
Then, many lawyers know that a verdict is likely to be guilty and so their tactics are little more than to further a chance of an appeal.
So a court might consider the costs of a current case, the risks of a not having a guilty verdict, and the costs of an appeal.
Now imagine a case where the defendant is so old he is unlikely to go to prison. Indeed, after the appeal against the sentence and the finding of guilt, then there might well be another against imprisonment of a man who is suffering from some sort of terminal disease.
There is also the chance of the person not paying a fine, especially if the person is rich, has little time to live, and has many places he can clear off to. If where the person has his assets is not well known then a penalty of a fair sum of money seems very attractive.
To be specific to this case, if the court has got a fine in mind and Ecclestone offers this in was is more or less an out of court (ie without accepting guilt) settlement then it is a no-brainer. On top of that, there is some suggestion that the fine might well have not been that amount in any case.
Fair enough, Ecclestone now is free to resume milking F1, but then there was no binding agreement that Ecclestone would forfeit his role. On top of that, why should the court care? Let F1 sort out its own problems.
As it is, Ecclestone offered $20m early on in the proceedings. The case has had sufficient evidence presented to suggest that, to Ecclestone, five times that amount is now required. So from the court's point of view, they nailed him.
The other court has decided to run with their case a bit longer. This might be because they think they have - this [i]might[/] be because - enough time to up the ante and Ecclestone is unlikely to be able to disappear before the rights are floated or sold. And given the state of the viewing figures, I doubt if this will be soon.
For Ecclestone to offer £100m and the rejected £20m means, I think, that something is in a state of change.
I wonder what that is.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff