The Official 2014 Belgian Grand Prix Tread ***Spoilers***

[Hungrymc]

MGJohn said:

Au contraire...

Incomplete horlicks at best, not total. There was a brief gap. The sort Hamilton has tried to fill many times.... er, on the tracks of course ...

A pass round the outside is always a hell of a pass. It has to be done decisively and early, if you are not fully along side at the apex and carrying more exit speed you have to yield as the car with the inside line will run to the outside..... It happens all the time, it's why we are so full of praise for a completed pass round the outside. The passing car has to do a huge amount of work through turn in to apex. It's the same reason why a pass on the inside requires the following car to get more than half a car length along side before the apex (yet at a speed to still hit the apex) to have 'won the line'.

Nico got nowhere near got into a strong enough position to try and 'own the line'. As said many times, if only he had shrugged and said it was a tiny miss judgement with very unfortunate consequences and that he apologised it would be one10th of the story his conduct has caused it to become. Merc and Petronas must be seething.

The Lewis vs Jenson issue discussed here is a good example to contrast this with. Firstly the inside pass is far more common and far more straightforward as you can win the line much earlier in braking zone. Lewis dived into a gap only because Jenson was on a strange wide line. Lewis was sufficiently mature to apologise and explained he miss read Jensons positioning - This is Lewis Hamilton, the man that many of you think is the lowest of the low, arrogant, discourteous, untrustworthy etc. And Jenson apologised after seeing the incident again. That is the difference, both drivers had the integrity to give an honest explanation of what happened. Neither was so insecure that they had to hide behind 'privacy' and run away from the fans and the media (there is nowhere to hide these days, so much info in the public domain that we can see what happened anyway - foolish tactic from an intelligent man).

I'm astounded that we sit here with Nico behaving worse than Lewis. I'm a Lewis fan but he has made many bad judgments in his career and I totally understand why people take a dislike to him (I draw the line at getting into hair styling discussions though). I do however struggle to understand why people who very clearly dislike him instantly lose the ability to be objective and view these situations on a case by case basis.

This really is not what we expect of Nico, it's not how he and his followers like to think of him - but it is plain and simple to see in this instance. I'm sure he'll see this for himself and improve his behavior going forward.

Let's hope Monza is a cracking race..... Merc will go into meltdown if Daniel manages to carve out a win !

[MGJohn]

Although I was one of those who raised the Button-Hamilton racing incident, it is not a fair comparison. Both cars were able to continue then. That was not the case on Sunday. Irrespective of blame, Hamilton's luck ran out and not due to any self-inflicted aspect this time which I have found so annoyingly frustrating in the past.

I'm unusual in the now PC-riddled UK because I enjoy seeing British successes. I even drive the flag unlike the majority of my fellow Brits and found the recent Football wolrd Cup painful to watch at times.

Every GP race I hope to see the Brits do well. That's Hamilton and Button mainly for obvious reasons. Both carried a few of my hard to come by pounds on Sunday. Not just the money, get so frustrated when they do not do well. For several reasons with that in mind, Sunday's race for me was both interesting and frustrating.

Still enjoyed it though. That's the main thing.

[Gary C]

MGJohn said:

Scuffers said:

DManning123 said:

As for the crash, Hamilton left the door open and then closed it when Rosberg took advantage, in the words of his hero and the driver he tries to model himself after:

Total horlicks.

Either your blind or have no concept of how racing is done.

Au contraire...

Incomplete horlicks at best, not total. There was a brief gap. The sort Hamilton has tried to fill many times.... er, on the tracks of course ...

It's not that there was a 'gap' but if hamilton had known rosberg would not yield, to protect his car, he would have gone slightly off line, which may have generated a gap in the next corner. You see it all the time with drivers using their reputation to generate a little error in a corner and capitalise on it in the next. Rosberg has admitted he was on that line because he wanted to put down a marker for the future. Time will tell when they are in the same position if hamilton will give rosberg more room.

Still rosbergs fault, but I can see why he did it.

[Hungrymc]

Gary C said:

It's not that there was a 'gap' but if hamilton had known rosberg would not yield, to protect his car, he would have gone slightly off line, which may have generated a gap in the next corner. You see it all the time with drivers using their reputation to generate a little error in a corner and capitalise on it in the next. Rosberg has admitted he was on that line because he wanted to put down a marker for the future. Time will tell when they are in the same position if hamilton will give rosberg more room.

Still rosbergs fault, but I can see why he did it.

The only reason Hamilton will give more room is to protect his pay check. The racers who have this 'hard' reputation rarly come out and state that they didn't yield to prove a point. Normally they all say 'it's just racing'.

Nico stating it as a conscious decision really means all things being equal, Lewis would have to deal with him more firmly. Simply couldn't hand all the cards to the opposition after they've made the point that they did it to put you in your place.The kind of thing you might see would be him missing the apex by a cars width to push the other car even wider. It's not difficult , he actually left plenty of room on Sumday and didn't make ant aggressive movements, could easily change all that and risk 'clumsy' contact.

It all comes down to if Lewis actually is the team player that everyone constantly claim he isn't. Or if he decides enough is enough and proves a point of his own.

[coppice]

It was a a trivial incident of the type which happens at every Grand Prix and this one comes under close scrutiny only because of the protagonists. Like nearly every racing incident it happened in a tiny space of time but that apparently doesn't stop it coming under millimetric analysis and fault allocation on the evidence of slomo replays. It's racing- it's why we watch it- forget who is 'at fault ' and look forward to Monza

[Hungrymc]

[redacted]

[boxedin]

wwwwwaaaaa.... racing incident.. no apology.. this is news?

now if LH had wandered over to NR and lamped [1] him (Chili vs Foggy) , then demanded a wall put up between the two Mercedes pits (Rossi vs Lorenzo) it might be more interesting..


[1] more of a fly swat, but its the thought that counts.

[007 VXR]

Nice quote from another thread, that makes sence to me..

davepoth said:

He has apparently admitted to putting his car somewhere it shouldn't really be (outside of the corner, and with no hope of passing without going off track) to see whether Hamilton would move off line to let him through. Of course he wasn't going to let Rosberg through - they're racing for the championship. In that position Rosberg should have braked or got out of the way of Hamilton, who had right of way.

It might not have been malicious, but it was certainly reckless. That has no place on a racetrack at all.

[MGJohn]

Hungrymc said:

The discussion here is in danger of becoming calm and reasoned on both sides.

That's a cracker..

[Jasandjules]

I am also wondering now if Nico has basically flagged to the FIA that any other contact or move which is "suspect" will be stamped on. Surely we can't have people accepting a crash on the circuit? There is incompetence which other drivers complain about, this is far worse to my mind.

[MGJohn]

Far worse has gone on in the past without any stamping on. Stamp on one you have to stamp on all. That's becomes a form of madness. Need to question just about any 'iffy' move even by those who in the eyes of many, can do no wrong ... ever. At those speeds, most moves clean or otherwise carry danger.

[RB Will]

I dont know what everyone is getting so excited about. Nico is not saying that every time they tango he is going to crash into Lewis.
He has merely sent the message that should Lewis try running him off the track again he is going to stick where he deserves to be. Yes I agree he could have sent this message with a better move.
They now both know this and if there is a crash in future then its a 50/50 problem (obviously disregarding any ridiculous moves).

All that Nico wants it to race fairly. Look at Hungary for example. At the end Ricciardos move on Lewis around the outside of turn 2. Lewis stayed on line and gave him over half the track. When Nico went for the same move Lewis drove well off line and ran him off the track. That is the sort of st that Nico does not want to put up with anymore, and you cant blame him for that.
See video for what I'm on about. http://fiftybuckss.wordpress.com/2014/07/30/on-boa...
24.30 in that is very fair Ricciardo - Lewis . 26.30 is stty Lewis- Nico. 17.45 is harsh but fair Alonso - Vettel

Lewis now has to be a bit more wary as if the same thing happens in every race from now on Nico (or Ricciardo) wins. You cant blame one driver or the other for any future incidents as they are both going into it knowing that if they dont play fair there is going to be a crash

[Speedy11]

RB Will said:

I dont know what everyone is getting so excited about. Nico is not saying that every time they tango he is going to crash into Lewis.
He has merely sent the message that should Lewis try running him off the track again he is going to stick where he deserves to be. Yes I agree he could have sent this message with a better move.

Lewis didn't run Nico off the road at Spa there was loads of space for Nico and the only message Nico sent was I can't overtake you Lewis so I will just hit you.

RB Will said:

They now both know this and if there is a crash in future then its a 50/50 problem (obviously disregarding any ridiculous moves).

Like Nico's move.

RB Will said:

All that Nico wants it to race fairly. Look at Hungary for example.

Like how Nico ran Bottas off the road at Hungary?

RB Will said:

At the end Ricciardos move on Lewis around the outside of turn 2. Lewis stayed on line and gave him over half the track. When Nico went for the same move Lewis drove well off line and ran him off the track. That is the sort of st that Nico does not want to put up with anymore, and you cant blame him for that.
See video for what I'm on about. http://fiftybuckss.wordpress.com/2014/07/30/on-boa...
24.30 in that is very fair Ricciardo - Lewis . 26.30 is stty Lewis- Nico. 17.45 is harsh but fair Alonso - Vettel

Lewis is only racing Nico for the championship so will be more aggressive towards him however if Nico can't overtake around the outside maybe he shouldn't try it

RB Will said:

Lewis now has to be a bit more wary as if the same thing happens in every race from now on Nico (or Ricciardo) wins. You cant blame one driver or the other for any future incidents as they are both going into it knowing that if they dont play fair there is going to be a crash

Surely Nico isn't stupid enough to hit his team mate on purpose again?

Rightly or wrongly after the apex you can edge a driver off the track, you can't do it on a straight but it is ok after a corner, so any driver trying to overtake around the outside knows what will happen if they don't get far enough ahead (which Nico never has) and can't complain when it does.

[braddo]

RB Will that is ignoring the big issue, which is that Rosberg has taken out his teammate on the second lap of a race, with a deliberatly reckless move.

That has huge implications for Mercedes and how they try to manage the drivers in order to prevent further crashes, and the PR disaster of their drivers throwing away multiple 1-2 finishes, the drivers championship and the constructors championship.

[Europa1]

I prefer to look on the bright side and take it as being a sign that Rosberg is feeling the pressure - i.e. he felt he had to prove a point that early in the race.

[VladD]

This is the way I see it.

It has been documented that Nico wanted to make a point. By leaving his car in a position where he knew a collision would be likely, he has let Lewis know that he's willing to play tough for the second half of the season. Yes Nico got flack for what he did, but he made his point as he planned. The thing we don't know if how Lewis will react. Lewis has a significant points deficit to Nico now, so how he reacts could will be key. He has two choices.

1) Accept Nico's message and give him more room, thereby possibly comprimising his own race/making it easier for Nico to pass him.

2) Carry on as before, race hard and risk further collisions/dropped points.

The first option is what I'd guess Nico is after, but the second one could still help him to the WDC.

What we don't know is how Merc and the FiA will react if Nico is culpable for another incident with Lewis that causes Lewis to drop points.

[Catatafish]

VladD said:

This is the way I see it.

It has been documented that Nico wanted to make a point. By leaving his car in a position where he knew a collision would be likely, he has let Lewis know that he's willing to play tough for the second half of the season. Yes Nico got flack for what he did, but he made his point as he planned. The thing we don't know if how Lewis will react. Lewis has a significant points deficit to Nico now, so how he reacts could will be key. He has two choices.

1) Accept Nico's message and give him more room, thereby possibly comprimising his own race/making it easier for Nico to pass him.

2) Carry on as before, race hard and risk further collisions/dropped points.

The first option is what I'd guess Nico is after, but the second one could still help him to the WDC.

What we don't know is how Merc and the FiA will react if Nico is culpable for another incident with Lewis that causes Lewis to drop points.

They won't do anything as demonstrated over this weekend. Merc heavily back-tracked, losing what little face they had left, and the FIA never do anything when Hamilton is the "victim"

[Scuffers]

Europa1 said:

I prefer to look on the bright side and take it as being a sign that Rosberg is feeling the pressure - i.e. he felt he had to prove a point that early in the race.

that's not the way to prove a point, and IMHO not what he was trying to do.

he lost the lead, and could not face following Lewis till the flag, so tried the long shot of the outside line, however, he must have realised pretty early on he was not going to make it, then decided to cause contact rather than back out (and in doing so admit he could not make it past).

I don't think he planned this so much as arrived in the position of back-out or crash, and he decided that he risk of crash was acceptable (which in light of the results, you could argue that they were).

VladD said:

This is the way I see it.

It has been documented that Nico wanted to make a point. By leaving his car in a position where he knew a collision would be likely, he has let Lewis know that he's willing to play tough for the second half of the season. Yes Nico got flack for what he did, but he made his point as he planned. The thing we don't know if how Lewis will react. Lewis has a significant points deficit to Nico now, so how he reacts could will be key. He has two choices.

1) Accept Nico's message and give him more room, thereby possibly comprimising his own race/making it easier for Nico to pass him.

2) Carry on as before, race hard and risk further collisions/dropped points.

The first option is what I'd guess Nico is after, but the second one could still help him to the WDC.

What we don't know is how Merc and the FiA will react if Nico is culpable for another incident with Lewis that causes Lewis to drop points.

No driver in Lewis's position would have change their line, - assuming they they could (as in they are already at the limit's of grip from the right-hander and to tighten the exit probably would result in a spin).

way I see it, Nico did it out of petulance/frustration that Lewis jumped him at the start and all his qualifying work was wasted.

ie, he's a hot head.

[oyster]

lbc said:

DJRC said:

The boo'ing. On worldwide television. THAT seriously pisses sponsors off.

It pisses everyone off that Rosberg caused an avoidable collision.

I am not surprised that everyone boo'd, as people have paid a lot of money to watch the race.

The Merc mechanics would have been furious also, having worked hard to make both cars reliable.

None of the group of Belgians next to me on Sunday boo'ed. The group of Brits to my right did though.

So not everyone boo'ed. Only the pissed up embarassing Brits I'm afraid.

[deadslow]

I think Rosberg made an ill-judged/timed overtake move which forced him into 'its now or never, I've already pre-decided not to back down to LH'. But I don't think the crash could have been premeditated since its more likely NR would have come off worse - I thought he'd lose his wing, but LH got a puncture.

I thought LH's interview with L McKenzie afterwards was one of his best; you could tell she was getting his genuine thoughts and I felt pretty sorry for the boy (all relative of course - he is after all a multi million pound racing driver )

I'm actually shocked at how mentally strong NR seems to be - I had him down for making up the numbers, but whether by accident or design has managed to destabilise LH's championship run.

The rest of the season will be great. For Sure.