The Official 2014 Belgian Grand Prix Tread ***Spoilers***
Discussion
Scuffers said:
way I see it, Nico did it out of petulance/frustration that Lewis jumped him at the start and all his qualifying work was wasted.
ie, he's a hot head.
Not sure I'd use the word petulance. Lewis was scampering away and had quite a gap on Nico. However at the end of the Kemmel straight Nico was gaining on Lewis at a fair old rate. Lewis was defensive therefore the only possible overtake was around the outside.ie, he's a hot head.
At the speed Nico was gaining a pass around the outside it did initially look a possibility - all be it requiring Lewis to yield to avoid an accident.
The only thing Nico did wrong that people can say with any certainty was he didn't back out of the move when it was clear it was no longer on. He should have missed the corner and joined the track again behind Lewis. However that ran the risk of catching the little speed bumps.
At the speed Lewis was pulling away from Nico this was possibly his only chance as Lewis might have broken away from DRS by the next lap.
Petulance or frustration? Not sure I'd agree. I'd say desperation.
But is he a hot head? He does have form in that area
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17808396
Well I'm a afraid Nico isn't the racer we thought he was.
Demanding Lewis gets out the way otherwise I'll take take you out.
He seems to have lost the meaning of racing. Racing drivers are naturally aggressive. They are always looking for away to make a pass. They'll be analysing the every part of the opponents weaknesses . This where your Alonsos Sennas and Yes Hamiltons are naturals. I know Hamilton is probably not the best tactically and has made mistakes but he's up there with the most naturally talented and racing drivers in the world. He speaks and drives with his heart.
There's no doubt Nico is a good driver but he's not a great racer.
If he'd kept his head he would of dropped back and looked for another opportunity to pass Lewis.
Demanding Lewis gets out the way otherwise I'll take take you out.
He seems to have lost the meaning of racing. Racing drivers are naturally aggressive. They are always looking for away to make a pass. They'll be analysing the every part of the opponents weaknesses . This where your Alonsos Sennas and Yes Hamiltons are naturals. I know Hamilton is probably not the best tactically and has made mistakes but he's up there with the most naturally talented and racing drivers in the world. He speaks and drives with his heart.
There's no doubt Nico is a good driver but he's not a great racer.
If he'd kept his head he would of dropped back and looked for another opportunity to pass Lewis.
Speedy11 said:
Lewis didn't run Nico off the road at Spa there was loads of space for Nico and the only message Nico sent was I can't overtake you Lewis so I will just hit you.
well technically Lewis hit Nico. Nico was on the left and Lewis came across to the left hitting Nico, who didnt jump out the way in the process. Yes I understand Lewis had the line and Nico should have backed out of that one a bit sooner but then he would not have made his point. Nicos message is not "I will hit you" but "I'm staying put so if you hit me its your fault"
As I already said the Spa incident was not the best move to demonstrate this with but hey at least this way there was only a puncture and snapped winglet. If he stood his ground when lewis pushed him off in Hungary there would have been interlocked wheel on wheel contact and flying destroyed cars and 2 DNFs.
Speedy11 said:
Like how Nico ran Bottas off the road at Hungary?
possibly I cant remember it so show me a pic or a clip and I will probably agree.Speedy11 said:
Lewis is only racing Nico for the championship so will be more aggressive towards him however if Nico can't overtake around the outside maybe he shouldn't try it
I'm sure being an experienced, world class driver, Nico is (and probably has at some point) capable of overtaking people round the outside. The fact he didnt succeed on that attempt was not because he is a s
t driver but because the overtakee gave him the option of having a crash or going off track and failing at the pass. I'm 100% sure if given similar room to Ricciardo or Vettel he would have made the pass stick.Speedy11 said:
Surely Nico isn't stupid enough to hit his team mate on purpose again?
You dont get it. Nico didnt and isnt planning to hit Lewis on purpose. He stuck his car somewhere inconvenient and let Lewis crash into it. As the pros have said it was a clumsy move not a deliberate crash. To quote Coulthatrd "I don't believe there was any malice in that, I don't believe Rosberg was trying to make contact" "yeah, I would put it down as a racing incident. I dont believe Rosberg was trying anything other than to try and force his car into position. Thats exactly what Hamilton has done with some success this year against Rosberg"Speedy11 said:
Rightly or wrongly after the apex you can edge a driver off the track, you can't do it on a straight but it is ok after a corner, so any driver trying to overtake around the outside knows what will happen if they don't get far enough ahead (which Nico never has) and can't complain when it does.
How far alongside is enough in your opinion? or is there a technical rule for when its OK to push people off the track? At Hungary Nicos front end was about level with Lewis front wheel and not far off that through the first part of the corner at Spa.Scuffers said:
No driver in Lewis's position would have change their line, - assuming they they could (as in they are already at the limit's of grip from the right-hander and to tighten the exit probably would result in a spin).
way I see it, Nico did it out of petulance/frustration that Lewis jumped him at the start and all his qualifying work was wasted.
ie, he's a hot head.
I think Nico is regretting not being tougher earlier in the season. I have a feeling the at some point recently he either decided, or was pursuaded, that next tinme it was around 50/50 with Lewis, he shouldn't be the one to back out. Unfortunatly he misjudged his choice of time to pull his "tough" move and got it horribly wrong. I still wait to see what will happen in the future when the two get into close combat. Will Lewis react differently? Has Nico show himself in the foot with what he did at Spa?way I see it, Nico did it out of petulance/frustration that Lewis jumped him at the start and all his qualifying work was wasted.
ie, he's a hot head.
RB Will said:
Speedy11 said:
Lewis didn't run Nico off the road at Spa there was loads of space for Nico and the only message Nico sent was I can't overtake you Lewis so I will just hit you.
well technically Lewis hit Nico. Nico was on the left and Lewis came across to the left hitting Nico, who didnt jump out the way in the process. Yes I understand Lewis had the line and Nico should have backed out of that one a bit sooner but then he would not have made his point. Nicos message is not "I will hit you" but "I'm staying put so if you hit me its your fault"
As I already said the Spa incident was not the best move to demonstrate this with but hey at least this way there was only a puncture and snapped winglet. If he stood his ground when lewis pushed him off in Hungary there would have been interlocked wheel on wheel contact and flying destroyed cars and 2 DNFs.
Speedy11 said:
Like how Nico ran Bottas off the road at Hungary?
possibly I cant remember it so show me a pic or a clip and I will probably agree.Speedy11 said:
Lewis is only racing Nico for the championship so will be more aggressive towards him however if Nico can't overtake around the outside maybe he shouldn't try it
I'm sure being an experienced, world class driver, Nico is (and probably has at some point) capable of overtaking people round the outside. The fact he didnt succeed on that attempt was not because he is a st driver but because the overtakee gave him the option of having a crash or going off track and failing at the pass. I'm 100% sure if given similar room to Ricciardo or Vettel he would have made the pass stick.Speedy11 said:
Surely Nico isn't stupid enough to hit his team mate on purpose again?
You dont get it. Nico didnt and isnt planning to hit Lewis on purpose. He stuck his car somewhere inconvenient and let Lewis crash into it. As the pros have said it was a clumsy move not a deliberate crash. To quote Coulthatrd "I don't believe there was any malice in that, I don't believe Rosberg was trying to make contact" "yeah, I would put it down as a racing incident. I dont believe Rosberg was trying anything other than to try and force his car into position. Thats exactly what Hamilton has done with some success this year against Rosberg"Speedy11 said:
Rightly or wrongly after the apex you can edge a driver off the track, you can't do it on a straight but it is ok after a corner, so any driver trying to overtake around the outside knows what will happen if they don't get far enough ahead (which Nico never has) and can't complain when it does.
How far alongside is enough in your opinion? or is there a technical rule for when its OK to push people off the track? At Hungary Nicos front end was about level with Lewis front wheel and not far off that through the first part of the corner at Spa.Hamilton was taking a natural line to the apex of the next corner. He didn't swerve to cut Rosberg up. Nico should of known that Hamilton wasn't going to change his line just so Nico can get past so Nico can win the Race.
Nico was pissed he had a bad start and wanted his lead back and Hamilton was in his way
Edited by M4CK 1 on Wednesday 27th August 15:04
Edited by M4CK 1 on Wednesday 27th August 15:06
johnfm said:
RB Will said:
well technically Lewis hit Nico. Nico was on the left and Lewis came across to the left hitting Nico, who didnt jump out the way in the process.
Possibly the funniest post of the year on PH. Comedy gold.007 VXR said:
johnfm said:
RB Will said:
well technically Lewis hit Nico. Nico was on the left and Lewis came across to the left hitting Nico, who didnt jump out the way in the process.
Possibly the funniest post of the year on PH. Comedy gold.
007 VXR said:
johnfm said:
RB Will said:
well technically Lewis hit Nico. Nico was on the left and Lewis came across to the left hitting Nico, who didnt jump out the way in the process.
Possibly the funniest post of the year on PH. Comedy gold.RB Will said:
well technically Lewis hit Nico. Nico was on the left and Lewis came across to the left hitting Nico, who didnt jump out the way in the process. Yes I understand Lewis had the line and Nico should have backed out of that one a bit sooner but then he would not have made his point.
Not sure if serious but here is Nico turning into Lewis.
RB Will said:
Nicos message is not "I will hit you" but "I'm staying put so if you hit me its your fault"
As I already said the Spa incident was not the best move to demonstrate this with but hey at least this way there was only a puncture and snapped winglet. If he stood his ground when lewis pushed him off in Hungary there would have been interlocked wheel on wheel contact and flying destroyed cars and 2 DNFs.
His point is more like "i'm staying put so when I hit you its all my fault" Overtaking around the outside is difficult because unless you are far enough ahead which Nico never was at Hungary the driver on the inside can take his line which can mean the person on the outside running out of space.As I already said the Spa incident was not the best move to demonstrate this with but hey at least this way there was only a puncture and snapped winglet. If he stood his ground when lewis pushed him off in Hungary there would have been interlocked wheel on wheel contact and flying destroyed cars and 2 DNFs.
RB Will said:
possibly I cant remember it so show me a pic or a clip and I will probably agree.
This is the only one I have it just shows Bottas front wing (in the read circle) just before he runs out of road and he runs of the track.
RB Will said:
I'm sure being an experienced, world class driver, Nico is (and probably has at some point) capable of overtaking people round the outside. The fact he didnt succeed on that attempt was not because he is a st driver but because the overtakee gave him the option of having a crash or going off track and failing at the pass. I'm 100% sure if given similar room to Ricciardo or Vettel he would have made the pass stick.
He has tried lots of times this year to go around Lewis and failed each time so like I say maybe he should not try to go around Lewis unless he can get far enough ahead.t driver but because the overtakee gave him the option of having a crash or going off track and failing at the pass. I'm 100% sure if given similar room to Ricciardo or Vettel he would have made the pass stick.RB Will said:
You dont get it. Nico didnt and isnt planning to hit Lewis on purpose. He stuck his car somewhere inconvenient and let Lewis crash into it. As the pros have said it was a clumsy move not a deliberate crash. To quote Coulthatrd "I don't believe there was any malice in that, I don't believe Rosberg was trying to make contact" "yeah, I would put it down as a racing incident. I dont believe Rosberg was trying anything other than to try and force his car into position. Thats exactly what Hamilton has done with some success this year against Rosberg"
He left his car in the wrong place and then turned into Lewis, both Lewis and Toto said it was deliberate so how do you know he didn't plan it? Maybe he planned it like you did with the driver you were racing.RB Will said:
How far alongside is enough in your opinion? or is there a technical rule for when its OK to push people off the track? At Hungary Nicos front end was about level with Lewis front wheel and not far off that through the first part of the corner at Spa.
There is a rule about leaving space on a straight (brought in ironically because of Nico running Lewis and Alonso off the track) but not on a corner, it is accepted that after the apex it is ok, which is why Kevin was given 20 seconds for it at Spa and that Lewis, Nico etc haven't after an apex.AWRacing said:
Would there have been this much outcry if the roles had been reversed and it had been Ham that had hit Ros?!
No.But he's the Brit and had a tough break. So nothing wrong with a bit of disappointment expressed on the internet.
I on the other hand stand a better chance of making money on my 16:1 bet on Rosberg taking the title. So I'm quite happy.
AWRacing said:
Would there have been this much outcry if the roles had been reversed and it had been Ham that had hit Ros?!
I expect someone has already asked this but i cant be arsed to trawl through 40odd pages of armchair warrior st to find out.
Of course there wouldn't. The forum would be full of lols that the german had cut up Lewis and got a puncture and Lewis would have taken the championship lead.I expect someone has already asked this but i cant be arsed to trawl through 40odd pages of armchair warrior s
t to find out.Nico didnt steer into Lewis. He had a rear end slide part way into the corner, quickly steered into that to save it then straightened up. At which point Lewis was over his nose.
As for the other comments regarding me, well its not my problem if you guys cant see things properly, I even quoted Coulthard with the same opinion (what would he know). I will go and get my eyes tested then sit among all my trophies and tell myself I don't know anything about racing.
You guys need to stop taking facts and using your bias to interpret them your own way. They are facts there is no interpretation, just what actually happened.
M4CK 1 said:
RBwill you really don't have a clue. Even in the real world of driving if you hit somebody from behind it's your fault.
Hamilton was taking a natural line to the apex of the next corner. He didn't swerve to cut Rosberg up. Nico should of known that Hamilton wasn't going to change his line just so Nico can get past so Nico can win the Race.
Nico was pissed he had a bad start and wanted his lead back and Hamilton was in his way
He didnt hit him from behind though. In road terms it would have been front right wing to rear left, Judging by threads in SPL most of the time that is going 50/50. If you were on the outside of a roundabout and the guy to your right stuck his indicator on and came over your way, you decided you didnt want to move and you came together is it entirely your fault? Hamilton was taking a natural line to the apex of the next corner. He didn't swerve to cut Rosberg up. Nico should of known that Hamilton wasn't going to change his line just so Nico can get past so Nico can win the Race.
Nico was pissed he had a bad start and wanted his lead back and Hamilton was in his way
I'm not saying Hamilton deliberately swerved/cut Rosberg up or drove into him in this instance. Much as Rosberg didnt deliberately drive into Hamilton. Its just a racing incident, as the pros have said.
RB Will said:
Of course there wouldn't. The forum would be full of lols that the german had cut up Lewis and got a puncture and Lewis would have taken the championship lead.
Nico didnt steer into Lewis. He had a rear end slide part way into the corner, quickly steered into that to save it then straightened up. At which point Lewis was over his nose.
Nico turned right, then left then turned right into Lewis as seen by this image which was after he steered left and 1 frame before he hit him. Nico didnt steer into Lewis. He had a rear end slide part way into the corner, quickly steered into that to save it then straightened up. At which point Lewis was over his nose.
RB Will said:
As for the other comments regarding me, well its not my problem if you guys cant see things properly, I even quoted Coulthard with the same opinion (what would he know). I will go and get my eyes tested then sit among all my trophies and tell myself I don't know anything about racing.
If you want to quote Coulthard how aboutDC said:
As it was, he did open the steering. Then, when he realised he was going to run off the circuit, he turned back in again and, in a clumsy manoeuvre, clipped Hamilton's rear tyre with his front wing, causing a puncture.
or DC said:
Hamilton was entirely blameless.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff