The Official 2014 Belgian Grand Prix Tread ***Spoilers***

[AWRacing]

RB Will said:

AWRacing said:

Would there have been this much outcry if the roles had been reversed and it had been Ham that had hit Ros?!

I expect someone has already asked this but i cant be arsed to trawl through 40odd pages of armchair warrior st to find out.

Of course there wouldn't. The forum would be full of lols that the german had cut up Lewis and got a puncture and Lewis would have taken the championship lead.
Nico didnt steer into Lewis. He had a rear end slide part way into the corner, quickly steered into that to save it then straightened up. At which point Lewis was over his nose.
As for the other comments regarding me, well its not my problem if you guys cant see things properly, I even quoted Coulthard with the same opinion (what would he know). I will go and get my eyes tested then sit among all my trophies and tell myself I don't know anything about racing.
You guys need to stop taking facts and using your bias to interpret them your own way. They are facts there is no interpretation, just what actually happened.

Pretty much how i see it too.
The problem is the armchair racers who have no experience and cant grasp car dynamics who then try and justify incidents that have happened by using snippets of information they have gleened from other sources.

It was a racing incident, rosberg was at fault, hamilton was v unlucky as he had to do 3 miles on a flat tyre.

Im neither a hamilton or rosberg fan, i just cant believe this has managed to create 40 odd pages of discussion

Hey ho, DR for the WDC!!

[RB Will]

Speedy11 said:

only one I have it just shows Bottas front wing (in the read circle) just before he runs out of road and he runs of the track.

Ok, looks about as far along as Nico has been. Would you say what Rosberg did to Bottas was fair or not?

Speedy11 said:

both Lewis and Toto said it was deliberate so how do you know he didn't plan it? Maybe he planned it like you did with the driver you were racing.

this is where you need to be careful what you are saying. Lewis twisted things and said Nico "basically" admitted it. Toto said Nico admitted to sicking in there and trying to be awkward on purpose, he did not say Nico crashed into him on purpose. When I pulled the move on the guy racing I wasnt thinking I'm just going to crash into him on the next corner, that will teach him. I just stuck myself somewhere awkward and let him do the rest. Granted I was 90% up the inside on him rather than 10-20% on the outside like Nico.

Speedy11 said:

There is a rule about leaving space on a straight (brought in ironically because of Nico running Lewis and Alonso off the track) but not on a corner, it is accepted that after the apex it is ok, which is why Kevin was given 20 seconds for it at Spa and that Lewis, Nico etc haven't after an apex.

Thats wrong. The rule was already in place then. (see the article linked to on the previous page) Rosberg was not penalised for his moves in that race because neither Alonso or Hamilton were alongside him when he moved over unlike KMag - Alonso. Or have they since updated the rule so that even if you move when someone is still behind you then you still have to leave a cars width in case they intended to go there?

[StottyEvo]

RB Will said:

You guys need to stop taking facts and using your bias to interpret them your own way. They are facts there is no interpretation, just what actually happened.

Despite Toto Wolfe and Niki Lauda saying that it was Rosbergs fault. Publicly stating that too, may I add. You still believe we're the biased ones

[Scuffers]

RB Will said:

Scuffers said:

Utter horlicks...

How is turning right mid a right hand corner correcting a slide?

Come off it, your getting desperate now...

He had turned left into the slide, sorted it then the wheel is turned right again to keep him on the track going round a right hander

At no point is Rosberg sliding.

He initially turned out to avoid Lewis, then though about it and turned back in - this was the I'm making a point move.

[oyster]

Just thinking about these 2 clowns and their misdemeanours this season. I say clowns in the lightest way because they are top-notch racing drivers of course. But look at the list below and tell me whether either of them really deserves the title this year.

Hamilton:
- Used a non-approved engine map in one of the races against team instruction.
- Disobeyed team orders in Hungary.
- Chopped across Rosberg in Bahrain potentially risking both their races.
- Forced Rosberg off the track in Hungary.

Rosberg:
- Used a non-approved engine map in one of the races against team instruction.
- Caused a yellow flag during Monaco qualifying to hold onto pole (maybe).
- Collided with Hamilton in Spa (maybe deliberately).

I think Mercedes really need to take a hard look at themselves as if they only had a 0.5s advantage instead of a 1s+ advantage they might not even be leading the championship.

[Speedy11]

RB Will said:

Ok, looks about as far along as Nico has been. Would you say what Rosberg did to Bottas was fair or not?

As long as its everyone does it its ok, I don't really like it but if its allowed there isn't much to moan about. There are few things that are accepted that I don't like but if FIA allow them to do it then so be it.

RB Will said:

this is where you need to be careful what you are saying. Lewis twisted things and said Nico "basically" admitted it. Toto said Nico admitted to sicking in there and trying to be awkward on purpose, he did not say Nico crashed into him on purpose. When I pulled the move on the guy racing I wasnt thinking I'm just going to crash into him on the next corner, that will teach him. I just stuck myself somewhere awkward and let him do the rest. Granted I was 90% up the inside on him rather than 10-20% on the outside like Nico.

I think it comes down to the difference between deliberately crashing and deliberately not avoiding a crash which is your fault.

RB Will said:

Thats wrong. The rule was already in place then. (see the article linked to on the previous page) Rosberg was not penalised for his moves in that race because neither Alonso or Hamilton were alongside him when he moved over unlike KMag - Alonso. Or have they since updated the rule so that even if you move when someone is still behind you then you still have to leave a cars width in case they intended to go there?

Sorry I was thinking about this rule

FIA said:

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason.
For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'

I am sure it was added after but I could be wrong.

FIA also say said:

Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

So even though the rules say you can't push them off the FIA/Charlie allow them to. I suppose its just like the how the rules say don't go outside of the white lines but they allow it.

[Scuffers]

oyster said:

Hamilton:
- Used a non-approved engine map in one of the races against team instruction.

irrelevant

oyster said:

- Disobeyed team orders in Hungary.

irrelevant (was not a team order)

oyster said:

- Chopped across Rosberg in Bahrain potentially risking both their races.

irrelevant - (call that a chop?)

oyster said:

- Forced Rosberg off the track in Hungary.

Irrelevant

oyster said:

Rosberg:
- Used a non-approved engine map in one of the races against team instruction.

irrelevant

oyster said:

- Caused a yellow flag during Monaco qualifying to hold onto pole (maybe).

Guilty

oyster said:

- Collided with Hamilton in Spa (maybe deliberately).

Guilty

[johnxjsc1985]

StottyEvo said:

Despite Toto Wolfe and Niki Lauda saying that it was Rosbergs fault. Publicly stating that too, may I add. You still believe we're the biased ones

and despite it being shown from every different angle 100's of times.Despite all of that some still can't see him hitting Lewis when he did not have to.

[ZX10R NIN]

Scuffers said:

oyster said:

Hamilton:
- Used a non-approved engine map in one of the races against team instruction.

Relevant

oyster said:

- Disobeyed team orders in Hungary.

Relevant (was not a team order)

oyster said:

- Chopped across Rosberg in Bahrain potentially risking both their races.

Relevant - (call that a chop?)

oyster said:

- Forced Rosberg off the track in Hungary.

Relevant

oyster said:

Rosberg:
- Used a non-approved engine map in one of the races against team instruction.

Relevant

oyster said:

- Caused a yellow flag during Monaco qualifying to hold onto pole (maybe).

Guilty

oyster said:

- Collided with Hamilton in Spa (maybe deliberately).

Guilty

[anonymous-user]

AWRacing said:

Would there have been this much outcry if the roles had been reversed and it had been Ham that had hit Ros?!

Nope, and there's massive hindsight bias at play on all levels. Had the tyre not punctured, which I am led to believe was less likely to than not during such contact, no-one would care whatsoever. People are making judgements on outcome rather than risk. This is superficial and hypocritical.

[ZX10R NIN]

ZX10R NIN said:

Scuffers said:

oyster said:

Hamilton:
- Used a non-approved engine map in one of the races against team instruction.

Relevant

oyster said:

- Disobeyed team orders in Hungary.

Relevant (was not a team order)

oyster said:

- Chopped across Rosberg in Bahrain potentially risking both their races.

Relevant - (call that a chop?)

oyster said:

- Forced Rosberg off the track in Hungary.

Relevant

oyster said:

Rosberg:
- Used a non-approved engine map in one of the races against team instruction.

Relevant

oyster said:

- Caused a yellow flag during Monaco qualifying to hold onto pole (maybe).

Guilty

oyster said:

- Collided with Hamilton in Spa (maybe deliberately).

Guilty

All of the above is relevant some of Lewis's driving has been very close to the mark bordering on P**s taking but in his situation everyone of us would do the same (apart from Alonso I rate Hamilton as the best driver on the grid right now) at the same time we have to admit that had you been on the end of that behavior for a while you'd reach a point when you wouldn't take it anymore, that's how we ended up with the situation at Spa.

Hamilton expected Rosberg to concede the corner as he had done before except it didn't happen had Hamilton given Rosberg a bit more room he would have gone on to win but Hamilton is a racer so he couldn't concede the corner.

Rosberg having had enough of this especially after Hungary stayed in it far to long and accidentally caused a puncture.

That's it end of it was a racing incident Rosberg's fault but a racing incident none the less

[wevster]

ZX10R NIN said:

What about the start in Canada Rosberg ran Lewis off the road at the first corner?

Lewis knew when to back out though.

[Scuffers]

La Liga said:

AWRacing said:

Would there have been this much outcry if the roles had been reversed and it had been Ham that had hit Ros?!

Nope, and there's massive hindsight bias at play on all levels. Had the tyre not punctured, which I am led to believe was less likely to than not during such contact, no-one would care whatsoever. People are making judgements on outcome rather than risk. This is superficial and hypocritical.

Pirelli are on record saying that if you have contact on the shoulder of the tyre, there's a 90% chance of puncture.

[RB Will]

That was only for about a 1-2 inch portion of the tyre though which requires pretty accurate crashing into a moving car mid corner. If you hit the tread or face of the tyre it was supposed to be much less likely, as Alonso demonstrated.

[Scuffers]

ZX10R NIN said:

at the same time we have to admit that had you been on the end of that behavior for a while you'd reach a point when you wouldn't take it anymore, that's how we ended up with the situation at Spa.

I have been on the receiving end of much worse than that!

It does not make me start ramming people.

[Mojocvh]

Agent Orange said:

Scuffers said:

way I see it, Nico did it out of petulance/frustration that Lewis jumped him at the start and all his qualifying work was wasted.

ie, he's a hot head.

Not sure I'd use the word petulance. Lewis was scampering away and had quite a gap on Nico. However at the end of the Kemmel straight Nico was gaining on Lewis at a fair old rate. Lewis was defensive therefore the only possible overtake was around the outside.

At the speed Nico was gaining a pass around the outside it did initially look a possibility - all be it requiring Lewis to yield to avoid an accident.

The only thing Nico did wrong that people can say with any certainty was he didn't back out of the move when it was clear it was no longer on. He should have missed the corner and joined the track again behind Lewis. However that ran the risk of catching the little speed bumps.

At the speed Lewis was pulling away from Nico this was possibly his only chance as Lewis might have broken away from DRS by the next lap.

Petulance or frustration? Not sure I'd agree. I'd say desperation.

But is he a hot head? He does have form in that area
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17808396

Important quote from above report.

"Rosberg said he preferred not to say anything until he had seen a replay."

Remember that line Gents.

[longshot]

I'd forgotten about those moves he did in Bahrain.
Interesting tactic though. Barge someone off the track and then report them of an illegal move.


Have the team said any more about what happened on Sunday or are they just hoping it will go away or everyone will forget about it?

[Redlake27]

There's a little,typically tabloidy,piece on grandprix.com where Lewis is reported to say he can't remember being friends with Rosberg,or when or where they first met.

As much as I love Lewis the driver, he really doesn't seem the most balanced out of the car.

[anonymous-user]

Scuffers said:

Pirelli are on record saying that if you have contact on the shoulder of the tyre, there's a 90% chance of puncture.

No doubt failure-rates are different at different areas. I am really taking it from comments on of the pundits made that it usually doesn't end in a puncture rather than something more scientific.

Redlake27 said:

There's a little,typically tabloidy,piece on grandprix.com where Lewis is reported to say he can't remember being friends with Rosberg,or when or where they first met.

As much as I love Lewis the driver, he really doesn't seem the most balanced out of the car.

They spin his emotional up and downs as "he wears his heart on his sleeve". I comes across to me as a lack of control and not the mindset of a top champion.

[NRS]

Redlake27 said:

There's a little,typically tabloidy,piece on grandprix.com where Lewis is reported to say he can't remember being friends with Rosberg,or when or where they first met.

As much as I love Lewis the driver, he really doesn't seem the most balanced out of the car.

Just words and politics now, probably the same way Rosberg probably implied the crash was deliberate rather than just bad driving. Anything to get an advantage.