Martin Whitmarsh leaves McLaren

Martin Whitmarsh leaves McLaren

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entropy

5,403 posts

202 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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While you simpletons are at it, might as well slag off Adrian Newey's 2 WDCs whilst at McLaren so it must mean he's massively over rated rolleyes

spunkytherabbit

442 posts

179 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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entropy said:
While you simpletons are at it, might as well slag off Adrian Newey's 2 WDCs whilst at McLaren so it must mean he's massively over rated rolleyes
Are you talking in relation to Whitmarsh and saying people are short sighted criticising him because of the two championships Newey helped engineer?

HereBeMonsters

14,180 posts

181 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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How many years, since he became a chief designer, has an Adrian Newey car NOT won either Championship?

hairyben

8,516 posts

182 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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Crafty_ said:
Regardless, what no-one ever mentions is that Michael took control of the pit crew training and set a practice/training programme up. Those same pit crews made the fastest pit stops of the year.
That was the problem- they were being all aren't-we-all-that about setting pit-stop records when every other race they'd funk one up and lose a wheel or something which in itself probably cost them titles. And it happened again and again and again with monotonous regularity, like no-one seized on it and and said "hey guy's we're focussing on the wrong thing here."

stephen300o

15,464 posts

227 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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Ron must have splashed out on a coffee machine.

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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I do think Martin Whitmarsh gave McLaren a much more human, likeable persona. And he spoke English to the media, not Ronspeak.

MGJohn

10,203 posts

182 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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Europa1 said:
I do think Martin Whitmarsh gave McLaren a much more human, likeable persona. And he spoke English to the media, not Ronspeak.
Yes, agreed. I for one will miss his contribution.

Now he's gone, who they gonna blame?

Some say Alonso may drive for McLaren soon.

Are you listening big Ron? Muhahahahahhhhhahhhhahhhahaha.

Bring it on ... wink



Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
MGJohn said:
Yes, agreed. I for one will miss his contribution.

Now he's gone, who they gonna blame?

Some say Alonso may drive for McLaren soon.

Are you listening big Ron? Muhahahahahhhhhahhhhahhhahaha.

Bring it on ... wink
And for all those who say he spent too much time looking at other teams/sorting out Honda/Brawn, let's not forget that at the time the sport was facing massive challenges in the face of worldwide recession, and could ill afford to lose a team (especially as Toyota did withdraw at the end of 2009). Refreshing to see a guy with a grasp of the bigger picture. Whether it should have been his role or he was picking up a ball that others from outside the teams had dropped (and arguably still haven't picked up) is the subject for a whole new thread...

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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I think Whitmarsh was treated rather badly and Ron is in for a shock if he thinks chopping off the management and throwing in Alonso or Vettel will suddenly turn the team around.

Mclaren have been f*cking up for years, in the late 90s and early 2000s they often had the best car but continually failed due to poor reliability or strategy and now in the last few years they can't even make a decent car. It is going to take a total shift in organisational culture to turn that team around - a painful Williams like journey.

MGJohn

10,203 posts

182 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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In the final analysis, there are twenty two cars and drivers and around eleven teams participating in each event.

Whichever way you look at it, that means twenty one also ran losing WDC drivers and ten losing teams in the WCC.

I do hope the "sack the manager and win" mindset so prevalent in another sport does not become established in F1.

Kaiser_Wull

149 posts

179 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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Europa1 said:
I do think Martin Whitmarsh gave McLaren a much more human, likeable persona. And he spoke English to the media, not Ronspeak.
And that aspect of his stewardship shouldn't be underestimated.

Muzzer79

9,806 posts

186 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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MGJohn said:
In the final analysis, there are twenty two cars and drivers and around eleven teams participating in each event.

Whichever way you look at it, that means twenty one also ran losing WDC drivers and ten losing teams in the WCC.

I do hope the "sack the manager and win" mindset so prevalent in another sport does not become established in F1.
I agree

You have Mercedes with huge investment, McLaren with huge investment, Ferrari and Red Bull likewise.

Running these teams with aspirations to win is not cheap and everyone except one team and driver is disappointed each year.

I for one am a little sad at Whitmarsh's demise. Like Domenicali at Ferrari, he brought some humanity to the team rather than the somewhat ruthless, cold predecessor.

Perhaps this lack of ruthlessness was their downfall.

I do like Ron aswell however. I think that deep down, he has a good sense of humour (evidenced by the Senna/Berger days)

Hungrymc

6,642 posts

136 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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I thought Whitmarsh presented himself well but I really don't think he ran a tight enough ship. Once things have slipped and a less professional culture is established it's very hard to fix (not necessarily blaming Whitmarsh for McL demise but I certainly think he contributed to it). Takes huge effort to turn around the kind of negative momentum they've had over the last few years. I don't think RD trying to do what he did 25 years ago is necessarily the answer either.

tenpenceshort

32,880 posts

216 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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Under Whitmarsh the team failed to perform and went from championship contenders to mid-table fodder. They're was no evidence he was turning things around, the opposite being more in evidence. It was therefore inevitable he was removed.

Being nice, personable or less robotic than Ron Dennis are all good human qualities, although not requisite in leading an F1 team.

entropy

5,403 posts

202 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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There's a cultural problem within McLaren. Gary Anderson and Mark Hughes have been critical of the matrix system because the negatives haven't been resolved; Boullier has been open about working cultural problems.


Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
MGJohn said:
In the final analysis, there are twenty two cars and drivers and around eleven teams participating in each event.

Whichever way you look at it, that means twenty one also ran losing WDC drivers and ten losing teams in the WCC.

I do hope the "sack the manager and win" mindset so prevalent in another sport does not become established in F1.
I agree

You have Mercedes with huge investment, McLaren with huge investment, Ferrari and Red Bull likewise.

Running these teams with aspirations to win is not cheap and everyone except one team and driver is disappointed each year.

I for one am a little sad at Whitmarsh's demise. Like Domenicali at Ferrari, he brought some humanity to the team rather than the somewhat ruthless, cold predecessor.

Perhaps this lack of ruthlessness was their downfall.

I do like Ron aswell however. I think that deep down, he has a good sense of humour (evidenced by the Senna/Berger days)
I liked the bloke - like the bloke in fact. I thought his post race comments were always worth listening to. I saw him at a talk once and unlike some of the others on the top table he answered quickly and normally the question.

I've spoken with Dennis a couple of times away from F1 and he was very approachable, exceptionally friendly and seems to be a nice bloke. He doesn't come over well on TV. He gave a chat at the F1 Paddock Club and he seemed if anything rather shy.

I'm sorry to see Martin go.

I do wonder if Honda made the requirement.


JonRB

74,401 posts

271 months

Saturday 30th August 2014
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Derek Smith said:
I liked the bloke - like the bloke in fact. I thought his post race comments were always worth listening to. I saw him at a talk once and unlike some of the others on the top table he answered quickly and normally the question.

I've spoken with Dennis a couple of times away from F1 and he was very approachable, exceptionally friendly and seems to be a nice bloke. He doesn't come over well on TV. He gave a chat at the F1 Paddock Club and he seemed if anything rather shy.
How dare you speak from a position of personal experience, Derek! Don't you know that there are armchair experts with immeasurably greater worth to their opinions? evil

Hungrymc

6,642 posts

136 months

Saturday 30th August 2014
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JonRB said:
How dare you speak from a position of personal experience, Derek! Don't you know that there are armchair experts with immeasurably greater worth to their opinions? evil
The only point I'd challenge you on is that Derek is saying he was a nice bloke but how nice he was isn't relevant to his ability and delivery.

He had presided over an ongoing decline. Having said that, I'm not convinced they are currently any better off. All eggs in the Honda basket but they have a good power unit now. The team need some better leadership;

entropy

5,403 posts

202 months

Saturday 30th August 2014
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All very well saying MW came across as the nice bloke. The matrix system was devised by MW and there's been criticism of team culture since Ron the Don's comeback.

JonRB

74,401 posts

271 months

Saturday 30th August 2014
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Hungrymc said:
The only point I'd challenge you on is that Derek is saying he was a nice bloke but how nice he was isn't relevant to his ability and delivery.
Well, I was pretty drunk when I posted that

smile