Jenson Button's future...?
Discussion
deadslow said:
I wish all the really good drivers who are about to retire were contractually obliged to spend a year in a Minardi/Marussia. It would give the small teams a boost and could be a laugh.
Sort of, a bit like, Massa moving to Williams seemed at the time! Only to discover that Williams was resurgent this season. And yet poor Massa found that once again his team mate was quicker than him.suffolk009 said:
Sort of, a bit like, Massa moving to Williams seemed at the time! Only to discover that Williams was resurgent this season. And yet poor Massa found that once again his team mate was quicker than him.
to be fair his luck has been pretty awful this year, but it does appear that Bottas has the edgeF. Massa.
Plus, apparently now no more numerous "move over darling".."have a gearbox fault grid slot penalty" contracts he suffered time and again when employed by that red outfit. A refreshing delight to see for this enthusiast.
Despite genuine bad luck with Williams, there appears to be more spring in his step now no longer under that overbearing red cloud. Team management appear to genuinely like and support the likeable chap. On the few occasions when lady luck has not dished out a bad hand, he has been a match for his team mate. Plus his unselfish behaviour greatly assisted the Red outfit to secure their sole WDC since who knows when.
The unjust and frankly unfair bias in favour of some drivers and over the top incessant negativity towards some others on this Motor Sport enthusiasts' site is both sad and puzzling to observe.
Yes, I get it. Those favourites in the eyes of some can do no wrong and always drive the wheels off their "dawgs" giving 110% ( what bollards! ) whilst others like Button and Vettel are merely lucky and like their cars to be perfect.
... That must really irk those of that biased mindset
If the answer to McLaren's problems can be solved only by a change of Driver line-up then I will eat my ... dinner.
I have watched Motor Sports since the 1950s and both Honda and McLaren are outfits I came to admire during all that time, particularly the former. Be delighted if they are good straight out of the box but, if they are, it will not be because of a change of driver line-up.
Whatever, I do hope the equally likeable Button gets a few more seasons in F1 ~ the sport needs folks like him.
Plus, apparently now no more numerous "move over darling".."have a gearbox fault grid slot penalty" contracts he suffered time and again when employed by that red outfit. A refreshing delight to see for this enthusiast.
Despite genuine bad luck with Williams, there appears to be more spring in his step now no longer under that overbearing red cloud. Team management appear to genuinely like and support the likeable chap. On the few occasions when lady luck has not dished out a bad hand, he has been a match for his team mate. Plus his unselfish behaviour greatly assisted the Red outfit to secure their sole WDC since who knows when.
The unjust and frankly unfair bias in favour of some drivers and over the top incessant negativity towards some others on this Motor Sport enthusiasts' site is both sad and puzzling to observe.
Yes, I get it. Those favourites in the eyes of some can do no wrong and always drive the wheels off their "dawgs" giving 110% ( what bollards! ) whilst others like Button and Vettel are merely lucky and like their cars to be perfect.
... That must really irk those of that biased mindsetIf the answer to McLaren's problems can be solved only by a change of Driver line-up then I will eat my ... dinner.
I have watched Motor Sports since the 1950s and both Honda and McLaren are outfits I came to admire during all that time, particularly the former. Be delighted if they are good straight out of the box but, if they are, it will not be because of a change of driver line-up.
Whatever, I do hope the equally likeable Button gets a few more seasons in F1 ~ the sport needs folks like him.
[quote=MGJohn]F. Massa.
The unjust and frankly unfair bias in favour of some drivers and over the top incessant negativity towards some others on this Motor Sport enthusiasts' site is both sad and puzzling to observe.
Yes, I get it. Those favourites in the eyes of some can do no wrong and always drive the wheels off their "dawgs" giving 110% ( what bollards! ) whilst others like Button and Vettel are merely lucky and like their cars to be perfect. ... That must really irk those of that biased mindset
/quote]
I find that quite staggering coming from you, one of the most (but not the most) anti Hamilton protangonests on this site.
The unjust and frankly unfair bias in favour of some drivers and over the top incessant negativity towards some others on this Motor Sport enthusiasts' site is both sad and puzzling to observe.
Yes, I get it. Those favourites in the eyes of some can do no wrong and always drive the wheels off their "dawgs" giving 110% ( what bollards! ) whilst others like Button and Vettel are merely lucky and like their cars to be perfect.
... That must really irk those of that biased mindset/quote]
I find that quite staggering coming from you, one of the most (but not the most) anti Hamilton protangonests on this site.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115657
Interesting that Arai calls the team 'Honda McLaren' for next year... does this confirm principal sponsorship?
Interesting that Arai calls the team 'Honda McLaren' for next year... does this confirm principal sponsorship?
I think MGJohn and one or two others (not many mind you) add some balance to the fanboy hyperbole posted on here with regards to Hamilton, Alonso et al, and the derogatory comments posted about Button, Vettel, Massa ect.
The key to winning enough races to bring home a WDC is a good driver/car package with the correct operational support.
Vettel-4x WDC and dominated his team mate. Car suited him and the team gravitated towards that success. You don't win 4xWDC if you are crap. But he gets lots of stick on here now he is not winning.
Hamilton- Ran his 2 x WDC team mate close on a rookie season and got a WDC in his second. A stratospheric rise, which has not continued in the form of WDCs. Most will argue he hasn't had the machinery.
Alonso- 2xWDC who was run close by a rookie! Has not yet delivered with Ferrari despite having No1 status for most of that time. Most will blame the machinery, inc Alonso.
Kimi- WDC, more successful than his McLaren team mate prior to Ferrari and More successful than his team mate upon his return with Lotus. Now he can't drive, seemingly-but strangely, he is not receiving negative posts on here???
Button- Performed well against his team mates throughout his career in beating 2 WDC team mates. Best of the rest in the 2004 season, third behind the Ferraris. Trundled around in poor cars a lot of the time. Got a competitive car and delivered a WDC. Had a bad spell with set up (similar to Kimi recently?) and gets a slagging despite out scoring his past 2 team mates season on season and more impressively beaten every team mate he has been paired (as an aggregate of points scored whilst in the same team) with since 2002. But he is s
t apparently.
Why isn’t Kimi getting the bashing JB is getting? He has “gone missing” so far this season, much like 2012 for JB. It is like a school popularity contest!
The key to winning enough races to bring home a WDC is a good driver/car package with the correct operational support.
Vettel-4x WDC and dominated his team mate. Car suited him and the team gravitated towards that success. You don't win 4xWDC if you are crap. But he gets lots of stick on here now he is not winning.
Hamilton- Ran his 2 x WDC team mate close on a rookie season and got a WDC in his second. A stratospheric rise, which has not continued in the form of WDCs. Most will argue he hasn't had the machinery.
Alonso- 2xWDC who was run close by a rookie! Has not yet delivered with Ferrari despite having No1 status for most of that time. Most will blame the machinery, inc Alonso.
Kimi- WDC, more successful than his McLaren team mate prior to Ferrari and More successful than his team mate upon his return with Lotus. Now he can't drive, seemingly-but strangely, he is not receiving negative posts on here???
Button- Performed well against his team mates throughout his career in beating 2 WDC team mates. Best of the rest in the 2004 season, third behind the Ferraris. Trundled around in poor cars a lot of the time. Got a competitive car and delivered a WDC. Had a bad spell with set up (similar to Kimi recently?) and gets a slagging despite out scoring his past 2 team mates season on season and more impressively beaten every team mate he has been paired (as an aggregate of points scored whilst in the same team) with since 2002. But he is s
t apparently.Why isn’t Kimi getting the bashing JB is getting? He has “gone missing” so far this season, much like 2012 for JB. It is like a school popularity contest!
The main criticism I seem to hear about Jenson is that he is a "whinger"...
I think that the reason we get this perception is because he is a popular driver who is always happy to be interviewed, and gives an accurate statement of what has happened to him.
If he has a bad car (which he clearly has had for the last few years), when interviewed, he will explain the problems.
We just seem to see a lot more of him giving these accounts because he is so approachable and liked by the British media.
Maybe Alonso is being interviewed by the Spanish / Italian media and giving the same answers and is perceived in those countries in the same light?
I think that the reason we get this perception is because he is a popular driver who is always happy to be interviewed, and gives an accurate statement of what has happened to him.
If he has a bad car (which he clearly has had for the last few years), when interviewed, he will explain the problems.
We just seem to see a lot more of him giving these accounts because he is so approachable and liked by the British media.
Maybe Alonso is being interviewed by the Spanish / Italian media and giving the same answers and is perceived in those countries in the same light?
Well said stevesingo.
Further proof on here with wevster's typical biased and erroneous response. Anyone who dares criticise any driver, particularly those few drivers who, according to some, accomplish the impossible by giving more than 100%, must surely be anti. Well known "fact" here on most PH F1 threads.
Thereby lies the problem. If I see ANY driver do something worthy of criticism, I will highlight that in my posts. Yes, that includes those "Can do no wrong Racing Gods" ... so there.
Although I'd prefer it not to happen, in some ways I sincerely hope that those "Button out" chomping at the bit to see him replaced by one of the "Racing Gods" get their way in 2015.
As those that got their way when Alonso the Great joined the Red outfit five seasons ago who stated he would promptly clean up. Boy did that come to pass. In much the same way as when Button joined McLaren who would be soundly thrashed by another "Racing God". Then again there were those who thought Hamilton was making a BIG mistake moving from McLaren. I was vociferous at that time that would not be the case and again accused of being anti. They were right of course he should have stayed at McLaren instead of being an "also ran" with Mercedes-Benz with a chance of securing his second WDC.
All this in my humble opinion of course. If those opinions disqualify me from being a member of the flock, so be it.
P.S. If you are still staggering wevster, I can supply a first class walking stick or zimmer frame to aid your progress. Reasonable prices too.
Feel free to PM me if either are of interest...
Further proof on here with wevster's typical biased and erroneous response. Anyone who dares criticise any driver, particularly those few drivers who, according to some, accomplish the impossible by giving more than 100%, must surely be anti. Well known "fact" here on most PH F1 threads.
Thereby lies the problem. If I see ANY driver do something worthy of criticism, I will highlight that in my posts. Yes, that includes those "Can do no wrong Racing Gods" ... so there.
Although I'd prefer it not to happen, in some ways I sincerely hope that those "Button out" chomping at the bit to see him replaced by one of the "Racing Gods" get their way in 2015.
As those that got their way when Alonso the Great joined the Red outfit five seasons ago who stated he would promptly clean up. Boy did that come to pass. In much the same way as when Button joined McLaren who would be soundly thrashed by another "Racing God". Then again there were those who thought Hamilton was making a BIG mistake moving from McLaren. I was vociferous at that time that would not be the case and again accused of being anti. They were right of course he should have stayed at McLaren instead of being an "also ran" with Mercedes-Benz with a chance of securing his second WDC.
All this in my humble opinion of course. If those opinions disqualify me from being a member of the flock, so be it.
P.S. If you are still staggering wevster, I can supply a first class walking stick or zimmer frame to aid your progress. Reasonable prices too.
Feel free to PM me if either are of interest...
I think Jenson's career is well and truly over at McLaren now...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz1FN8ldZFg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz1FN8ldZFg
Kraken said:
Besides who knows when a technical issue isn't caused by the driver doing something wrong. Hamilton moaned about his discs glazing over at Spa but, as pointed out by ex-F1 drivers, that only happens when the driver fails to warm them properly. Hamilton never strikes me as someone who is fully aware of the technicalities of his car unlike someone like Button, Vettel or Alonso.
It also happened to Massa this year and is linked to the Carbone Industrie brakes being difficult to warm up when it's wet.http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/9453050/Massa...
wevster said:
It also happened to Massa this year and is linked to the Carbone Industrie brakes being difficult to warm up when it's wet.
Massa always has an excuse why he was rubbish in every race, usually blaming everyone and everything except himself For that reason, Massa and Button would make great team mates.
stevesingo said:
I think MGJohn and one or two others (not many mind you) add some balance to the fanboy hyperbole posted on here with regards to Hamilton, Alonso et al, and the derogatory comments posted about Button, Vettel, Massa ect.
The key to winning enough races to bring home a WDC is a good driver/car package with the correct operational support.
Vettel-4x WDC and dominated his team mate. Car suited him and the team gravitated towards that success. You don't win 4xWDC if you are crap. But he gets lots of stick on here now he is not winning.
Hamilton- Ran his 2 x WDC team mate close on a rookie season and got a WDC in his second. A stratospheric rise, which has not continued in the form of WDCs. Most will argue he hasn't had the machinery.
Alonso- 2xWDC who was run close by a rookie! Has not yet delivered with Ferrari despite having No1 status for most of that time. Most will blame the machinery, inc Alonso.
Kimi- WDC, more successful than his McLaren team mate prior to Ferrari and More successful than his team mate upon his return with Lotus. Now he can't drive, seemingly-but strangely, he is not receiving negative posts on here???
Button- Performed well against his team mates throughout his career in beating 2 WDC team mates. Best of the rest in the 2004 season, third behind the Ferraris. Trundled around in poor cars a lot of the time. Got a competitive car and delivered a WDC. Had a bad spell with set up (similar to Kimi recently?) and gets a slagging despite out scoring his past 2 team mates season on season and more impressively beaten every team mate he has been paired (as an aggregate of points scored whilst in the same team) with since 2002. But he is st apparently.
Why isn’t Kimi getting the bashing JB is getting? He has “gone missing” so far this season, much like 2012 for JB. It is like a school popularity contest!
kimi got all the help in the world from his teammate and the fia to win that championship just.The key to winning enough races to bring home a WDC is a good driver/car package with the correct operational support.
Vettel-4x WDC and dominated his team mate. Car suited him and the team gravitated towards that success. You don't win 4xWDC if you are crap. But he gets lots of stick on here now he is not winning.
Hamilton- Ran his 2 x WDC team mate close on a rookie season and got a WDC in his second. A stratospheric rise, which has not continued in the form of WDCs. Most will argue he hasn't had the machinery.
Alonso- 2xWDC who was run close by a rookie! Has not yet delivered with Ferrari despite having No1 status for most of that time. Most will blame the machinery, inc Alonso.
Kimi- WDC, more successful than his McLaren team mate prior to Ferrari and More successful than his team mate upon his return with Lotus. Now he can't drive, seemingly-but strangely, he is not receiving negative posts on here???
Button- Performed well against his team mates throughout his career in beating 2 WDC team mates. Best of the rest in the 2004 season, third behind the Ferraris. Trundled around in poor cars a lot of the time. Got a competitive car and delivered a WDC. Had a bad spell with set up (similar to Kimi recently?) and gets a slagging despite out scoring his past 2 team mates season on season and more impressively beaten every team mate he has been paired (as an aggregate of points scored whilst in the same team) with since 2002. But he is s
t apparently.Why isn’t Kimi getting the bashing JB is getting? He has “gone missing” so far this season, much like 2012 for JB. It is like a school popularity contest!
MGJohn said:
Well said stevesingo.
Further proof on here with wevster's typical biased and erroneous response. Anyone who dares criticise any driver, particularly those few drivers who, according to some, accomplish the impossible by giving more than 100%, must surely be anti. Well known "fact" here on most PH F1 threads.
Thereby lies the problem. If I see ANY driver do something worthy of criticism, I will highlight that in my posts. Yes, that includes those "Can do no wrong Racing Gods" ... so there.
Although I'd prefer it not to happen, in some ways I sincerely hope that those "Button out" chomping at the bit to see him replaced by one of the "Racing Gods" get their way in 2015.
As those that got their way when Alonso the Great joined the Red outfit five seasons ago who stated he would promptly clean up. Boy did that come to pass. In much the same way as when Button joined McLaren who would be soundly thrashed by another "Racing God". Then again there were those who thought Hamilton was making a BIG mistake moving from McLaren. I was vociferous at that time that would not be the case and again accused of being anti. They were right of course he should have stayed at McLaren instead of being an "also ran" with Mercedes-Benz with a chance of securing his second WDC.
All this in my humble opinion of course. If those opinions disqualify me from being a member of the flock, so be it.
P.S. If you are still staggering wevster, I can supply a first class walking stick or zimmer frame to aid your progress. Reasonable prices too.
Feel free to PM me if either are of interest...
I think its impossible for you not to be biased to one driver or another. It's human nature to make some subconcious decision whether that driver be regarded positively or negatively in your mind. To proclaim otherwise is akin to claiming your emotional responses are computed by a ZX81... and so what if you like or dislike a certain driver? Further proof on here with wevster's typical biased and erroneous response. Anyone who dares criticise any driver, particularly those few drivers who, according to some, accomplish the impossible by giving more than 100%, must surely be anti. Well known "fact" here on most PH F1 threads.
Thereby lies the problem. If I see ANY driver do something worthy of criticism, I will highlight that in my posts. Yes, that includes those "Can do no wrong Racing Gods" ... so there.
Although I'd prefer it not to happen, in some ways I sincerely hope that those "Button out" chomping at the bit to see him replaced by one of the "Racing Gods" get their way in 2015.
As those that got their way when Alonso the Great joined the Red outfit five seasons ago who stated he would promptly clean up. Boy did that come to pass. In much the same way as when Button joined McLaren who would be soundly thrashed by another "Racing God". Then again there were those who thought Hamilton was making a BIG mistake moving from McLaren. I was vociferous at that time that would not be the case and again accused of being anti. They were right of course he should have stayed at McLaren instead of being an "also ran" with Mercedes-Benz with a chance of securing his second WDC.
All this in my humble opinion of course. If those opinions disqualify me from being a member of the flock, so be it.
P.S. If you are still staggering wevster, I can supply a first class walking stick or zimmer frame to aid your progress. Reasonable prices too.
Feel free to PM me if either are of interest...
Judging from your posts, you worship at the altar of those that are currently winning. That's ok my Grandad had the same outlook.
Catatafish said:
I think its impossible for you not to be biased to one driver or another. It's human nature to make some subconcious decision whether that driver be regarded positively or negatively in your mind. To proclaim otherwise is akin to claiming your emotional responses are computed by a ZX81... and so what if you like or dislike a certain driver?
Judging from your posts, you worship at the altar of those that are currently winning. That's ok my Grandad had the same outlook.
I'd argue some people are much more rational than others - I like to think I'm in the rational camp, but I am amazed by the bJudging from your posts, you worship at the altar of those that are currently winning. That's ok my Grandad had the same outlook.
kss many Hamilton fan(boys) spout.Hamilton fanboys(girls) are generally the worst - a large quantity are pretty much delusional, probably in the same way most of the country are about the England football team on the run up to a World Cup - despite agreeing Hamilton was one of the quickest drivers, I was accused of being racist by a Hamilton fan as I said I didn't like his attitude etc and would rather Rosberg won this year.
There is a difference sometimes between being an F1 fan and a driver fan - I like to think I am an F1 fan - I'd like Jenson to do well due to his attitude but in the end I just want a fantastic, exciting race and it doesn't matter who wins as long as it is on merit. I couldn't stand Schumacher, but that was not a subconscious thing, it was because he was a cheat.
McLaren may want Alonso but I very much doubt that he would be interested.
I can't see Vettel leaving RBR for McLaren either, even with Newey fading out of the picture.
Hamilton would not be an option, nor would Ricciardo.
This leaves Hulkenberg, Bottas or Grosjean as possible replacements for Button, and I'm fairly sure that Bottas has already re-signed for Williams.
JB will be in a McLaren Honda next year and probably in 2016 too.
I can't see Vettel leaving RBR for McLaren either, even with Newey fading out of the picture.
Hamilton would not be an option, nor would Ricciardo.
This leaves Hulkenberg, Bottas or Grosjean as possible replacements for Button, and I'm fairly sure that Bottas has already re-signed for Williams.
JB will be in a McLaren Honda next year and probably in 2016 too.
[Alonsoesque/Hamiltonesque (delete as apprpriate) fanboy mode] Jenson has done really well this morning in FP1. Compleatly outdriving the car, dragging it up to a position far above where the car deserves [Alonsoesque/Hamiltonesque (delete as apprpriate) fanboy mode/]
Edited by stevesingo on Friday 5th September 10:51
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