Vettel to get yet another chassis..
Discussion
Is it a possible that Vettel was the driver able to make best use of the 'blow' effect and, without it, he is now being shown as a relatively average F1 driver? It seems odd that Vettel is so consistently slower than Ricciardo. Of course, cars can fundamentally suit or hinder drivers depending on how they approach driving, however I don't remember hearing too much about that throughout the season from Vettel.
Lots of people of commented on Vettel's ability to use a blown diffuser better than others. Look at the times the FIA attempted to minimise the advantage, either by engine mapping or by the regulation that led to coanada exhausts, Webber was comparable to Vettel, as soon as the team get the head around the new rule, and get the exhaust back to full strength Vettel streaks in front.
This is the reason there has been chatter to the effect of Vettel needs to win in an average car to be considered a true great. Hamilton managed to drag two wins out of the hound the was the '09 McLaren. Vettel has managed nothing this year and his team mate has 3 wins, and this years Red Bull is now where near as bad as the '09 Mclaren.
This is the reason there has been chatter to the effect of Vettel needs to win in an average car to be considered a true great. Hamilton managed to drag two wins out of the hound the was the '09 McLaren. Vettel has managed nothing this year and his team mate has 3 wins, and this years Red Bull is now where near as bad as the '09 Mclaren.
Megaflow said:
Lots of people of commented on Vettel's ability to use a blown diffuser better than others.
Especially Webber. He said that he never really got the hang of standing on the throttle to create more grip when he was sure he should be standing on the brakes. Vettel could and the difference was obvious.DR has the advantage of coming into the team just as Vettel has lost his party trick.
I've often said to my mate that Vettel isnt as good as everyone thinks and that it was mostly down to the car, he wouldnt have it. This season is showing he is just an average driver in terms of top flight drivers who got lucky with the regs for a few years.
I'd say he is a german Button, very good when everything goes his way but average at best when it doesnt.
I'd say he is a german Button, very good when everything goes his way but average at best when it doesnt.
tenpenceshort said:
Is it a possible that Vettel was the driver able to make best use of the 'blow' effect and, without it, he is now being shown as a relatively average F1 driver?
Are you trying to get struck off MGJohn's Christmas card list?Seriously though... I'm not sure he can really be can be classed as average just from the stats even with teh obvious car advantage the RBR had. Webber isn't slow nor weak and rarely beat seb in a straight fight. Saying that... how often the playing field was level is debatable.
IainT said:
tenpenceshort said:
Is it a possible that Vettel was the driver able to make best use of the 'blow' effect and, without it, he is now being shown as a relatively average F1 driver?
Are you trying to get struck off MGJohn's Christmas card list?Seriously though... I'm not sure he can really be can be classed as average just from the stats even with teh obvious car advantage the RBR had. Webber isn't slow nor weak and rarely beat seb in a straight fight. Saying that... how often the playing field was level is debatable.
The other thing worth mentioning is that the new engines/power units and other new rules this year have levelled the playing field a bit. Some of the experience gained over the past few years in the V8 era (you know, flat everywhere and don't worry about oversteer!
) is now not so useful, and this style of driving suits some more than others.tenpenceshort said:
Of course, cars can fundamentally suit or hinder drivers depending on how they approach driving, however I don't remember hearing too much about that throughout the season from Vettel.
"Sebastian was complaining about having such a bad car," said Marko. "Sebastian wants everything absolutely right."His main problem was the downshift was always destabilising the rear and he couldn't understand that we couldn't solve it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/27830986
slipstream 1985 said:
dr_gn said:
AWRacing said:
I'd say he is a german Button, very good when everything goes his way but average at best when it doesnt.
You'll get told off for saying that here 
slipstream 1985 said:
dr_gn said:
AWRacing said:
I'd say he is a german Button, very good when everything goes his way but average at best when it doesnt.
You'll get told off for saying that here 
slipstream 1985 said:
dr_gn said:
AWRacing said:
I'd say he is a german Button, very good when everything goes his way but average at best when it doesnt.
You'll get told off for saying that here entropy said:
tenpenceshort said:
Of course, cars can fundamentally suit or hinder drivers depending on how they approach driving, however I don't remember hearing too much about that throughout the season from Vettel.
"Sebastian was complaining about having such a bad car," said Marko. "Sebastian wants everything absolutely right."His main problem was the downshift was always destabilising the rear and he couldn't understand that we couldn't solve it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/27830986
Plenty of evidence showing team members and management when not speaking in their native tongue, they do not always convey exactly what they mean to say. Amusingly, when that happens, that suits some folks who often seize on that treating whatever as gospel when obviously it is not. Those with German as first language when speaking in English appear particularly prone.
MGJohn said:
entropy said:
tenpenceshort said:
Of course, cars can fundamentally suit or hinder drivers depending on how they approach driving, however I don't remember hearing too much about that throughout the season from Vettel.
"Sebastian was complaining about having such a bad car," said Marko. "Sebastian wants everything absolutely right."His main problem was the downshift was always destabilising the rear and he couldn't understand that we couldn't solve it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/27830986
Plenty of evidence showing team members and management when not speaking in their native tongue, they do not always convey exactly what they mean to say. Amusingly, when that happens, that suits some folks who often seize on that treating whatever as gospel when obviously it is not. Those with German as first language when speaking in English appear particularly prone.
Vettel to get another chassis for Singapore;
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115782
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115782
Autosport said:
Sebastian Vettel will be handed a brand new chassis for the Singapore Grand Prix as his Red Bull team ramps up its bid to help him win his first Formula 1 race of the season.
It will be the third different chassis that the four-time champion has used in three consecutive races.
The car the German used in Belgium was found to have a fault with it, and he was switched to a different but previously used chassis for last weekend's Italian GP.
But with the team eager to ensure that Vettel's performance is at its best in Singapore, which should suit the characteristics of its package, Red Bull confirmed on Tuesday that work is underway to prepare an all-new chassis for him.
Team principal Christian Horner suggested after the Italian GP that the final part of the campaign could be better for Vettel, on the back of recent strong qualifying performances against team-mate Daniel Ricciardo.
"It has been a difficult year for Seb but that's not been his own making," he said.
"I think that Daniel's just done incredibly well and I think all credit should be given to him for how he has driven this year.
"It's going to be a fascinating final third of the year to see how it pans out.
"Certainly Sebastian seemed reasonably happy with the car in qualifying and in the early stages of the race.
"It wasn't a lack of pace [in Italy] - it was just how their different strategies played out."
It will be the third different chassis that the four-time champion has used in three consecutive races.
The car the German used in Belgium was found to have a fault with it, and he was switched to a different but previously used chassis for last weekend's Italian GP.
But with the team eager to ensure that Vettel's performance is at its best in Singapore, which should suit the characteristics of its package, Red Bull confirmed on Tuesday that work is underway to prepare an all-new chassis for him.
Team principal Christian Horner suggested after the Italian GP that the final part of the campaign could be better for Vettel, on the back of recent strong qualifying performances against team-mate Daniel Ricciardo.
"It has been a difficult year for Seb but that's not been his own making," he said.
"I think that Daniel's just done incredibly well and I think all credit should be given to him for how he has driven this year.
"It's going to be a fascinating final third of the year to see how it pans out.
"Certainly Sebastian seemed reasonably happy with the car in qualifying and in the early stages of the race.
"It wasn't a lack of pace [in Italy] - it was just how their different strategies played out."
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