Ricciardo makes Vergne look good?

[Speed Badger]

They were very closely matched at Toro Rosso, both in qualifying and race results - I would say Vergne had the lion's share of bad luck & DNF's.

The question is this; Does Ricciardo's current performance make Jean-Eric Vergne look better than we thought, given that neither really stood out against the other when at Toro Rosso?

[rigga]

My view, right or wrong, is that the majority of driver's in F1 at any given time, would be contenders in the right car, machinery plays a huge role in performance, so maybe yes jev could do just as good a job as Ricci

[graememac]

Vergne was in British F3 the year after Ricciardo and for me Vergne was the more impressive of the two. Although Ricciardo looked very good too.

[entropy]

Kvyat looks even more impressive...

[gaz1234]

Senna

[John D.]

Vergne seems incredibly unlucky to me. So many mechanical DNFs.

[kiseca]

rigga said:

My view, right or wrong, is that the majority of driver's in F1 at any given time, would be contenders in the right car, machinery plays a huge role in performance, so maybe yes jev could do just as good a job as Ricci

I think this is right on the money. It's a team sport. It's the whole package, right back to the strategists, that wins or loses, not just one man. The driver undoubtedly makes a difference, some are better than others but that's not the lion's share of the performance of the whole package, because they are all pretty handy drivers. They all have their strengths and weaknesses too though, so I think its also the case of having a driver able to exploit the strengths of the car, e.g. Vettel vs Webber with the blown diffuser, and Mansell vs Patrese with the active Williams.

I think the same goes for the rules. I'm pretty sure that rule changes can make one driver sparkle while another driver loses their advantage. See Hunt and Lauda when the ground effect cars came in, both lost interest, if I recall, more or less because they couldn't move the cars around like they preferred to. Hunt in particular. Then there were the changes to the points scoring in '88 vs '89, one year favouring Senna's speed, the next year favoured Prost's consistency.

Banning blown diffusers this year seems to have neutralised Vettel's party trick, and a couple of years ago tyres that couldn't cope with running at 10 tenths for any period seemed to knobble Hamilton and arguably also in part did for Schumacher's comeback, along with the testing ban. As did age, probably, and perhaps motivation and a unique tyre deal.

It's impossible to just compare drivers, very very few get to do enough to convince the majority that they would have been great in any era and any car. Ricciardo is looking great this season, who can say if Vettel would have been walking all over him in last year's cars or not? Mansell was certainly quicker than Patrese all the time too, and yet the active car really did exploit Mansell's strengths and amplified the gap between the two.

It's the whole package. Impossible to separate out which bits of that package are trully responsible for the biggest performance advantages from our armchairs because we just don't have enough information. And yet... each year it seems quite clear which is the car to be in, even if it is less clear which driver is doing a better job than anyone else could in his place.

[speedysoprano]

I'm going to stick my neck out and disagree. Vergne, to me, has never looked impressive. Ricciardo always did - his knack of sticking that Toro Rosso in Q3 time and time again was pretty handy, as was his positive attitude. Vergne always looks like someone spat in his dinner, and I'd argue that rather than anyone else making him look good, he's been making himself look bad.

[John D.]

speedysoprano said:

I'm going to stick my neck out and disagree. Vergne, to me, has never looked impressive. Ricciardo always did - his knack of sticking that Toro Rosso in Q3 time and time again was pretty handy, as was his positive attitude. Vergne always looks like someone spat in his dinner, and I'd argue that rather than anyone else making him look good, he's been making himself look bad.

He's never struck me as a serious prospect in F1 (didn't follow his earlier career). Bit of a latter day Fisichella (or not even that good!).

[thatguy11]

Ricciardo had the better quali record but they were really close on race results. I can't really see JEV lasting much longer, which is a shame because while he's probably not a future "big dog" frontrunner, he does deserve a place on the grid much more than a lot of other drivers whose seats are much safer only because of vast reserves of $$$$$

[speedysoprano]

thatguy11 said:

Ricciardo had the better quali record but they were really close on race results. I can't really see JEV lasting much longer, which is a shame because while he's probably not a future "big dog" frontrunner, he does deserve a place on the grid much more than a lot of other drivers whose seats are much safer only because of vast reserves of $$$$$

They were, but I think those results are a bit misleading. I'd struggle to imagine Vergne doing what Ricciardo has done in the Red Bull this year.

[Henry Fiddleton]

Jev's mentally was all wrong in comparison to Ric's.

Ric was, and still is, all about himself - just gets on with it, and focus on what he can deliver.

Jev is always, (all from looking at it mind), appearing to be comparing himself to others, and his right to be here or there.

All IMHO of course, and could well be BS.

[bubney72]

Has Vergne got a glam rock lookalike though? Check out Ricciardo on lead vocal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcj34XixuYg

[Ahonen]

gaz1234 said:

Senna

Is this a game where we just type random racing driver surnames? Okay, I'll play.

Minassian.