Will the radio ban help Lewis?

[JonRB]

entropy said:

or go back to data acquisition ie. download on to laptops rather than real time data

Actually, that would work. Ban wireless telemetry and require any telemetry download to be by physical connection only. Although you might need real-time wireless for safety stuff like tyres, brakes, fuel, etc. but it could be strictly regulated by defining a protocol and having a "man in the middle" sniffer program to verify that only regulation data is being transmitted - that wouldn't be at all hard to do (and that's a professional opinion).

[entropy]

RYH64E said:

These new engines have cost huge amounts of money to develop, have they improved the show in any way at all?

The cars are terrific to watch now. They move around so much especially in low DF spec. Hamilton getting lairy oversteer at Eau Rouge.

I've been an advocate of less DF but these PUs create more torque at mid range.

[Crafty_]

RYH64E said:

The rule clarification is good, what is ridiculous is making the 'power units' so complex that the cars can't be raced without constant input from a team of technicians. These new engines have cost huge amounts of money to develop, have they improved the show in any way at all?

Oh dear, are we still prattling on about this ?

Yes they have, the cars have much more aggressive torque curves and are harder to drive, or I should say harder to drive fast. Lots more oversteer, drivers have to actually think about using the throttle, before they could simply go WOT on exit of many corners,now they have to be a bit dainty and feed throttle in or they will be pointing the wrong way pretty quickly.

The racing this year has been great, just look at the tussles the mercs, ricciardo, alonso etc have all had.

[RYH64E]

Crafty_ said:

Oh dear, are we still prattling on about this ?

Yes they have, the cars have much more aggressive torque curves and are harder to drive, or I should say harder to drive fast. Lots more oversteer, drivers have to actually think about using the throttle, before they could simply go WOT on exit of many corners,now they have to be a bit dainty and feed throttle in or they will be pointing the wrong way pretty quickly.

The racing this year has been great, just look at the tussles the mercs, ricciardo, alonso etc have all had.

Because of the engines or despite the engines? I see nothing that couldn't have been achieved at no cost by simply reducing the aero. Want the cars to move round more and be harder to drive? Reduce the aero, cheap and simple.

[Killer2005]

Don't know if this has covered, but in Moto Gp the electronics start to reduce the power as fuel limits are reduced through the race, do the F1 regs allow for a similar system?

[Crafty_]

RYH64E said:

Because of the engines or despite the engines? I see nothing that couldn't have been achieved at no cost by simply reducing the aero. Want the cars to move round more and be harder to drive? Reduce the aero, cheap and simple.

Yes thats right the cars have more torque at lower revs despite the engines

Reducing aero would not have the same effect as we currently see, it'd just make the cars slower and wear the tyres quicker because they'd slide all over the place, all the time.
Besides your low aero car wouldn't go very fast without an engine after the manufacturers departed.

[JonRB]

RYH64E said:

Because of the engines or despite the engines? I see nothing that couldn't have been achieved at no cost by simply reducing the aero. Want the cars to move round more and be harder to drive? Reduce the aero, cheap and simple.

You're completely missing the point. It was nothing to do with cost (even though it was dressed up as such), and it has nothing to do with being eco-friendly (even though, again, it was dressed up as such). It was about keeping F1 relevant, making it more socially acceptable, and also increasing its appeal. F1 cars make hybrids sexy, or at least they would if Bernie Ecclestone, Luca de Montezemelo and others, would stop dissing it and putting it down, and instead promoted it positively as such. This was explored in the minutes of a discussion session published in this month's EVO magazine and was a very good point I thought.

Edit: And, as Crafty_ said, it was also about keeping the car manufacturers on board. And please let's not have that stupid debate where some people say "F1 could manage without them" because, no, it couldn't.

[RYH64E]

JonRB said:

And please let's not have that stupid debate where some people say "F1 could manage without them" because, no, it couldn't.

Yes it could, F1 doesn't need the manufacturers and if they want to use the support to sell more cars it should be on F1's terms not the other way round.

[Crafty_]

RYH64E said:

Yes it could, F1 doesn't need the manufacturers and if they want to use the support to sell more cars it should be on F1's terms not the other way round.

If it could why do the teams, the FIA CVC, Bernie, i.e. everyone who is involved with the sport continue to embrace the manufacturers and make changes like the new engines to keep them on board ?

Maybe you can explain your version of F1 without the manufacturers ? who makes the engines ? who pays for them ?

And what exactly should F1's "terms" be for the manufacturers ?

[ivanhoew]

so dashboard warning lights to say ,
brakes too hot ,
fuel going too fast ,
tyres too cold/hot,

oh and a giant mc hammer gif on the circuit screens for lewis when its time to go faster .

sounds fine to me.

[h8tax]

Presumably it is just radio instructions that are banned though? Lets say for example a driver needs a complex set of 're-boot' instructions. When he is in the pits can an engineer plug his microphone (physically) into the car and tell the driver what to do in order to get him going again?

It will cost precious seconds, but that is better than retiring or pootling round at the back. Maybe this is a whole new dimension of the sport that will open up - increasing the variety and length of pit stops.

Or will the cars just become more 'self adjusting' with just a 'default settings' button the driver can press if its all going wrong

[JonRB]

Crafty_ said:

If it could why do the teams, the FIA CVC, Bernie, i.e. everyone who is involved with the sport continue to embrace the manufacturers and make changes like the new engines to keep them on board ?

Maybe you can explain your version of F1 without the manufacturers ? who makes the engines ? who pays for them ?

And what exactly should F1's "terms" be for the manufacturers ?

Well, *obviously* everyone would go back to using the Cosworth DFV, jumpers for goalposts, etc.

Anyway, we've had this debate too many times to sidetrack this thread with it as well.

[Bo_apex]

this ban is good news. Let drivers feel their own way through the race - some unknown elements should lead to more balls-out driving ala Mansell

[skinny]

Bo_apex said:

this ban is good news. Let drivers feel their own way through the race - some unknown elements should lead to more balls-out driving ala Mansell

umm balls out driving definitely won't happen if they don't know how much fuel they have left

[Daston]

Could the teams just give the driver some headphones and set the car up with the MS Paper Clip? "I see your using too much fuel....do you need help with this?"

You could easily set up some sound clips to tell drivers when fuel is low and what to put the setting to, all set up before the race for each track etc.

[JonRB]

skinny said:

umm balls out driving definitely won't happen if they don't know how much fuel they have left

I'm sure it won't be beyond the wit of man to upgrade the cars' onboard systems to have the same kind of functionality that some road cars have - ie. a projected range till the tank is empty. The race has a fixed distance and/or time, both of which can be programmed in, so the car should be able to calculate itself whether it is going to last to the finish line.

All the data is available to calculate the range on-board: distance, time, fuel flow rate, initial fuel load. It's a simple enough calculation.

[thechosenfamily]

Esseesse said:

They should invite him to the Mercedes garage... https://twitter.com/MCHammer

He won't say no he's more broke than a broke thing in broke town.

[JonRB]

thechosenfamily said:

He won't say - no he's more broke than a broke thing in broke town.

Presumably he's now sold his solid gold toilet seat then?

[thechosenfamily]

JonRB said:

thechosenfamily said:

He won't say - no he's more broke than a broke thing in broke town.

Presumably he's now sold his solid gold toilet seat then?

Probably went with the mansion when it was sold to pay his debts

[Crafty_]

h8tax said:

Presumably it is just radio instructions that are banned though? Lets say for example a driver needs a complex set of 're-boot' instructions. When he is in the pits can an engineer plug his microphone (physically) into the car and tell the driver what to do in order to get him going again?

It will cost precious seconds, but that is better than retiring or pootling round at the back. Maybe this is a whole new dimension of the sport that will open up - increasing the variety and length of pit stops.

Or will the cars just become more 'self adjusting' with just a 'default settings' button the driver can press if its all going wrong

I don't think what you suggest would be permitted - its not the use of the radio to pass the "diff setting 4" message, its the fact that someone in the pits is telling the driver what to do, hence the use of pit boards to pass messages is not allowed.

I agree the cars will become self adjusting or give the drivers information/advice as I previously described.