Will the radio ban help Lewis?
Discussion
Sniff Petrol has nailed it, as usual.
SniffPetrol said:
F1 teams have reacted immediately to the FIA’s decision to ban ‘driver performance’ radio messages during races with at least one senior figure calling it ‘loco 7 at X4, as discussed.’
Another race engineer was equally outspoken, calling the decision ‘warm 5 is max and smooth for go strat 8 to 9, repeat smooth for go strat 8 to 9.’
However, a source at another leading team was more cautious, noting that the ruling was ‘green to 12J for seven, the blue cow is sitting on nine leaves. Sitting. On. Nine. Leaves.’
Meanwhile, a well-known senior figure from an Oxfordshire-based team took a different view. ‘Oh Jesus,’ he sighed. ‘I’m going to have to give Felipe written instructions.’
http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/09/11/f1-teams-react-t...Another race engineer was equally outspoken, calling the decision ‘warm 5 is max and smooth for go strat 8 to 9, repeat smooth for go strat 8 to 9.’
However, a source at another leading team was more cautious, noting that the ruling was ‘green to 12J for seven, the blue cow is sitting on nine leaves. Sitting. On. Nine. Leaves.’
Meanwhile, a well-known senior figure from an Oxfordshire-based team took a different view. ‘Oh Jesus,’ he sighed. ‘I’m going to have to give Felipe written instructions.’
From https://twitter.com/tgruener who works for AMuS
@tgruener said:
F1 FIA race director Charlie Whiting answers urgent questions about new radio rules for Singapore. AMuS (German): ams.to/Rb
F1 Not allowed anymore: Info about tyres/brake condition, fuel consumption, engine maps, ERS mode, fuel mix, diff settings. #NewRadioRules
F1 Also not allowed: formation lap instructions to prepare race start - burnouts, gearbox sync, bite point, brake/tyre temps
F1 Still allowed are informations & instructions regarding traffic, pit stop timing and team order.
F1 Not allowed anymore: Info about tyres/brake condition, fuel consumption, engine maps, ERS mode, fuel mix, diff settings. #NewRadioRules
F1 Also not allowed: formation lap instructions to prepare race start - burnouts, gearbox sync, bite point, brake/tyre temps
F1 Still allowed are informations & instructions regarding traffic, pit stop timing and team order.
So the ban goes in, how will it be enforced?
In real time, leading to a stop/go or time penalty during the current race or will radio conversations be reviewed post race, with sanctions applied in the next race, which could make the last double points race even more interesting?!
I can see this kicking up some grey areas
In real time, leading to a stop/go or time penalty during the current race or will radio conversations be reviewed post race, with sanctions applied in the next race, which could make the last double points race even more interesting?!
I can see this kicking up some grey areas
Speedy11 said:
From https://twitter.com/tgruener who works for AMuS
Thanks for posting that. Really interesting - much more restrictive than I expected!@tgruener said:
F1 FIA race director Charlie Whiting answers urgent questions about new radio rules for Singapore. AMuS (German): ams.to/Rb
F1 Not allowed anymore: Info about tyres/brake condition, fuel consumption, engine maps, ERS mode, fuel mix, diff settings. #NewRadioRules
F1 Also not allowed: formation lap instructions to prepare race start - burnouts, gearbox sync, bite point, brake/tyre temps
F1 Still allowed are informations & instructions regarding traffic, pit stop timing and team order.
F1 Not allowed anymore: Info about tyres/brake condition, fuel consumption, engine maps, ERS mode, fuel mix, diff settings. #NewRadioRules
F1 Also not allowed: formation lap instructions to prepare race start - burnouts, gearbox sync, bite point, brake/tyre temps
F1 Still allowed are informations & instructions regarding traffic, pit stop timing and team order.
scubadude said:
Evidence for this is?....
Everyone excuses LH of being an unthinking drove-it-like-you-stole-it loon yet this year he regularly has been more economical and seems to have mastered the complex power units as well as most drivers so must have some mechanical intelligence?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/casey-ganemccalla/at...Everyone excuses LH of being an unthinking drove-it-like-you-stole-it loon yet this year he regularly has been more economical and seems to have mastered the complex power units as well as most drivers so must have some mechanical intelligence?
HDM said:
So the ban goes in, how will it be enforced?
In real time, leading to a stop/go or time penalty during the current race or will radio conversations be reviewed post race, with sanctions applied in the next race, which could make the last double points race even more interesting?!
I can see this kicking up some grey areas
This was originally in German from here ams.to/Rb so may not be 100% correctIn real time, leading to a stop/go or time penalty during the current race or will radio conversations be reviewed post race, with sanctions applied in the next race, which could make the last double points race even more interesting?!
I can see this kicking up some grey areas
Whiting said:
This is at the discretion of the Stewards, but I think it will more likely be a sport penalty as a fine.
zac510 said:
Thanks for posting that. Really interesting - much more restrictive than I expected!
Wow, yes. Much more restrictive than anticipated. I guess the only way is for it to be draconian though. Allow too much leeway and they'll just get round it with codewords and the like. I foresee team radio being so restrictive and dry now that they won't bother playing it out to fans.
Also, they will have to have a team of people listening in to every single channel live in order to police it.
Speedy11 said:
From https://twitter.com/tgruener who works for AMuS
Interesting, thanks for posting. All I can see this doing is making the drivers jobs harder, and not in a good way. They'll need to be overloaded with info in the pre-race briefing rather than drip fed it as and when relevant. For example they'll now need to memorise all the various stategies drawn up rather than be told the actions required in response to a certain situation. @tgruener said:
F1 FIA race director Charlie Whiting answers urgent questions about new radio rules for Singapore. AMuS (German): ams.to/Rb
F1 Not allowed anymore: Info about tyres/brake condition, fuel consumption, engine maps, ERS mode, fuel mix, diff settings. #NewRadioRules
F1 Also not allowed: formation lap instructions to prepare race start - burnouts, gearbox sync, bite point, brake/tyre temps
F1 Still allowed are informations & instructions regarding traffic, pit stop timing and team order.
F1 Not allowed anymore: Info about tyres/brake condition, fuel consumption, engine maps, ERS mode, fuel mix, diff settings. #NewRadioRules
F1 Also not allowed: formation lap instructions to prepare race start - burnouts, gearbox sync, bite point, brake/tyre temps
F1 Still allowed are informations & instructions regarding traffic, pit stop timing and team order.
And that's before we even look at how they'll use code words and phrases, even actions as workarounds for the ban. There's a hundred and one ways they could find to communicate info back to the team (e.g. tear visor strip off when your tyres are dropping off etc).
In conclusion, I just can't see it being enforceable.
Jasandjules said:
Surely info about tyres/brakes etc can affect pit stops and safety?
I mean, if brake temps are high and they may shatter with the driver going straight on an 200mph, that can't be a good thing?!?!
Indeed. I'm sure it'll find its balance eventually. I'd imagine that codewords and settings will be severely stamped on though. I mean, if brake temps are high and they may shatter with the driver going straight on an 200mph, that can't be a good thing?!?!
I'd imagine "You have excessive brake temperatures - please go easier on them" might be ok but "Brake bias 15, blue cheese is hot, suggest watermelon" probably wouldn't be.
JonRB said:
It would need to be a little more complex than that. But a range indicator like many road cars have, coupled with distance remaining, and a warning if one exceeds the other, would probably do the trick.
Or how about the FIA just allow the teams to run enough fuel to go hell for leather for the entire race like the good old days?TheAngryDog said:
Or how about the FIA just allow the teams to run enough fuel to go hell for leather for the entire race like the good old days?
Because F1 has to be seen to be touchy-feely-vegan. Note: Doesn't actually need to *be* eco-friendly. Just be *seen to be* eco-friendly. It's kind of like politics where being seen to be doing something is more important than actually doing something.
But, that said, don't forget that we have always had this situation when in-race fuelling is disallowed. Teams will always fuel their cars so as to run out just past the finish line - why carry around the weight of extra fuel? Remember Mansell running out of fuel at the end of the last lap whilst in the lead in... um, my memory fails me. I want to say Canada? 1984? 1985? Anyway, point is that it's not exactly new.
I think the using code words thing will be too obvious. All you need to do is synchronise the radio comms with the car telemetry and suddenly you realise that "blue cheese goes mouldy" means diff setting 4 please, you're destroying the rear tyres".
All the instruction that they did give from pitwall is based on data they receive and a bit of number crunching - analytics and algorithms. So, next stage is to fit a box to the car that does the same and then shows the driver what to do, e.g. take wheelspeeds and work out the deltas, that gives you a rough idea of oversteer/understeer, now look at the diff setting and figure out if a change would help, if so display to the driver that they should put it on setting 8 or whatever.
In other words, if an engineer isn't allowed to tell the driver, can the car ?
All the instruction that they did give from pitwall is based on data they receive and a bit of number crunching - analytics and algorithms. So, next stage is to fit a box to the car that does the same and then shows the driver what to do, e.g. take wheelspeeds and work out the deltas, that gives you a rough idea of oversteer/understeer, now look at the diff setting and figure out if a change would help, if so display to the driver that they should put it on setting 8 or whatever.
In other words, if an engineer isn't allowed to tell the driver, can the car ?
It's a decision that is a knee jerk option, and is not actually doing anything to improve the fans experience.
Apparently the radio ban is because engineers offering advice to the driver makes it look too easy to drive a F1 car, and therefore we do not regard the driver as a hero.
However in my opinion that is incorrect, drivers are not given hero status because they arent actually around long enough to earn it. So on here we'll argue about the abilities of Button, Hamiliton, Alonso and Vettel but not the rest of them.
The racing this season has been very good, but those involved in F1 are too busy talking it down, equally of course a number of people will have been turned off by the fact that many races are now pay to view, and of course issues with Bernie buying himself out of a court decision.
To an extent the radio announcements actually improve the show in my opinion.
Apparently the radio ban is because engineers offering advice to the driver makes it look too easy to drive a F1 car, and therefore we do not regard the driver as a hero.
However in my opinion that is incorrect, drivers are not given hero status because they arent actually around long enough to earn it. So on here we'll argue about the abilities of Button, Hamiliton, Alonso and Vettel but not the rest of them.
The racing this season has been very good, but those involved in F1 are too busy talking it down, equally of course a number of people will have been turned off by the fact that many races are now pay to view, and of course issues with Bernie buying himself out of a court decision.
To an extent the radio announcements actually improve the show in my opinion.
Chrisgr31 said:
However in my opinion that is incorrect, drivers are not given hero status because they arent actually around long enough to earn it. So on here we'll argue about the abilities of Button, Hamiliton, Alonso and Vettel but not the rest of them.
Max Chilton is a hero!Well, ok, his wallet is heroic in its capacity.
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