Rosberg calls Hamilton lucky before podium ceremony

[Jasandjules]

Unfortunately there are now posters where I will simply skip over their contributions.

[Derek Smith]

Europa1 said:

Please do share your thoughts . . .

Good god, man. Are you new to these forums? That's the one thing you never say to him.

[IainT]

vonuber said:

I know it seems that at times we have to take the Hamilton party line on this forum, but there is no need to hound those who dare to disagree.

Rest of your post is absolutely reasonable but this bit isn't quite reality.

There should be no "Hamilton party line" (or any driver) that posters need to adhere to to gain acceptance - at least not when arguments are made reasonably and with a degree of coherence and facts.

People, John in this case, aren't hounded for 'darning to disagree' (maybe we can get a "PH Martyr" t-shirt made up?) he's called on posting conspiracy bks to support his bias. If he'd managed to provide one credible piece of evidence to back up his theory he'd, right;y, get plaudits. His constant playing the "I dare to be different" card is frankly dull.

[andygo]

There are certain posters who I also pass over. The trouble is that the next batch of posts are from people discussing the twits post. Makes for tedious reading!

[stevieeg]

If I had to choose a driver story to buy into it would be the natural talent whose modestly wealthy family sacrificed everything to realise its potential, not a second generation racer. Hamilton's story represents a way into F1 for a latent talent that can't buy a drive or buy their way to it either. He can be as bling as he wants now as far as I'm concerned, it won't detract for me.

[carinaman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXVwp0ZdlDo&li...

Lewis was faster.

[Derek Smith]

carinaman said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXVwp0ZdlDo&li...

Lewis was faster.

You can't believe a thing Peter Windsor says. He's just using his experience and knowledge. That's not right.

[RemarkLima]

stevieeg said:

If I had to choose a driver story to buy into it would be the natural talent whose modestly wealthy family sacrificed everything to realise its potential, not a second generation racer. Hamilton's story represents a way into F1 for a latent talent that can't buy a drive or buy their way to it either. He can be as bling as he wants now as far as I'm concerned, it won't detract for me.

I know they play the humble beginnings tale quite often, but wasn't Hamilton picked up by McLaren at 12 and was fully funded from that point onwards?

Not being controversial, just never thought it was the poor me story it's hyped up to be... Happy to be corrected...

[Gary C]

Crafty_ said:

Correct, but there is nothing to say you can't run stuff on board the car itself that does the same thing, which is what i was talking about.

Ah, ok. So fuel mix and brake bias settings ? What else could be changed on the fly automatically, Diff settings ?

I think brake bias would not be allowed as it could be interpreted as some kind of antilock and diff could be interpreted as a kind of traction control.

[Gary C]

I don't believe Rosberg was told to miss the corner to let lewis by, but maybe he did it on purpose because he knew there was no way he was going to keep him behind and wanted to avoid the ignominy of being overtaken ? And blame a small mistake or car problem. Damage limitation ?

Probably just made a mistake thoug, but I wish we had seen a proper overtake

[carinaman]

RemarkLima said:

I know they play the humble beginnings tale quite often, but wasn't Hamilton picked up by McLaren at 12 and was fully funded from that point onwards?

Not being controversial, just never thought it was the poor me story it's hyped up to be... Happy to be corrected...

The poor kid from Stevenage stuff before Monaco was discussed during this:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/podcast-with-...


The Rosberg lock up during qualifying at Monaco doesn't do much to quell conspiracy theories about Rosberg having problems with that chicane at Monza.

[Crafty_]

Gary C said:

Crafty_ said:

Correct, but there is nothing to say you can't run stuff on board the car itself that does the same thing, which is what i was talking about.

Ah, ok. So fuel mix and brake bias settings ? What else could be changed on the fly automatically, Diff settings ?

I think brake bias would not be allowed as it could be interpreted as some kind of antilock and diff could be interpreted as a kind of traction control.

Temperature sensors in the wheels will tell you when the wheel & tyre is getting hot, lets say its a 8Hz signal (8 times a second).
Now use that data along with G sensor readings and brake pressure. We now know the wheel is getting hot because its being loaded up through a quick corner or because of braking.
Now do some trending over say 5 laps, you can work out tyre degradation. Now compare that to the expected, if it doesn't match you can display a warning to the driver. A decision can then be made to stop earlier or change driving style.
If we add GPS to the mix you could even determine where the high wear is occurring and the driver can then change line in the one/two corners that are causing the problem.

Diff settings could definitely be changed, compare wheel speeds between rear wheels, again temperatures, yaw etc. With a model of known behaviour of the diff it could easily recommend optimum settings.

Basically until now the teams have been pulling data down to the pits or even HQ and then analysing that data (number crunching), a bit of (human) reckoning then provided the advice to the driver. If they can move the analysis to on board and automate the reckoning they can provide the same information as they have been direct to the driver or even, as I said automatically make the changes.

This is basically what we do at work, but for aircraft. Our emphasis is on detection defects/failures/problems before they cause an aircraft to go out of service or incur big repair bills.
Example: aircraft is in flight and suffers a decompression event. This is due to a failure in an air con pack.
It happened because no-one knew the pack was failing. Aircraft had to get down to 10,000 feet sharpish and then get on the ground as soon as sensibly possible. Aircraft taken out of service, all its flights in the near future have to be allocated to other aircraft, that causes a ripple through scheduling, as does the crew that are displaced and need to be replaced in the short term with a standby crew.

There is less scary stuff too - e.g. a trend might suggest that slight under inflation of tyres causes a large increase in tyre wear. Tyres for a airliner are not cheap! If persistent under inflation is oberved there could be a problem with the wheel or tyre. It could also be possible to track component (the tyre in this case) life vs expected.

Passengers on the flight in question have to be put up in hotels and flown out, some booked on other carriers to resume their journey.. It costs the airline a fortune.

In this case we could have predicted the air con pack failure nearly a month before it happened, it would have been taken care of in routine servicing that didn't affect the schedule too much and would certainly be lots cheaper for the airline.

The good chaps at http://www.ausdig.com/ do similar work, but they work more on efficiency - i.e. the operation of the aircraft, especially with regards to fuel usage - there is an optimum way to fly an aircraft for a given route/weather condition etc, by sticking to this the airline can save fuel, which is money in the bank. Just one example, they do lots of other stuff.

Back to F1 - the teams are already doing the analysis and reckoning, they just need to reimplement how they do it.

[Gary C]

Crafty_ said:

Gary C said:

Crafty_ said:

Correct, but there is nothing to say you can't run stuff on board the car itself that does the same thing, which is what i was talking about.

Ah, ok. So fuel mix and brake bias settings ? What else could be changed on the fly automatically, Diff settings ?

I think brake bias would not be allowed as it could be interpreted as some kind of antilock and diff could be interpreted as a kind of traction control.

Temperature sensors in the wheels will tell you when the wheel & tyre is getting hot, lets say its a 8Hz signal (8 times a second).
Now use that data along with G sensor readings and brake pressure. We now know the wheel is getting hot because its being loaded up through a quick corner or because of braking.
Now do some trending over say 5 laps, you can work out tyre degradation. Now compare that to the expected, if it doesn't match you can display a warning to the driver. A decision can then be made to stop earlier or change driving style.
If we add GPS to the mix you could even determine where the high wear is occurring and the driver can then change line in the one/two corners that are causing the problem.

Diff settings could definitely be changed, compare wheel speeds between rear wheels, again temperatures, yaw etc. With a model of known behaviour of the diff it could easily recommend optimum settings.

Basically until now the teams have been pulling data down to the pits or even HQ and then analysing that data (number crunching), a bit of (human) reckoning then provided the advice to the driver. If they can move the analysis to on board and automate the reckoning they can provide the same information as they have been direct to the driver or even, as I said automatically make the changes.

This is basically what we do at work, but for aircraft. Our emphasis is on detection defects/failures/problems before they cause an aircraft to go out of service or incur big repair bills.
Example: aircraft is in flight and suffers a decompression event. This is due to a failure in an air con pack.
It happened because no-one knew the pack was failing. Aircraft had to get down to 10,000 feet sharpish and then get on the ground as soon as sensibly possible. Aircraft taken out of service, all its flights in the near future have to be allocated to other aircraft, that causes a ripple through scheduling, as does the crew that are displaced and need to be replaced in the short term with a standby crew.

There is less scary stuff too - e.g. a trend might suggest that slight under inflation of tyres causes a large increase in tyre wear. Tyres for a airliner are not cheap! If persistent under inflation is oberved there could be a problem with the wheel or tyre. It could also be possible to track component (the tyre in this case) life vs expected.

Passengers on the flight in question have to be put up in hotels and flown out, some booked on other carriers to resume their journey.. It costs the airline a fortune.

In this case we could have predicted the air con pack failure nearly a month before it happened, it would have been taken care of in routine servicing that didn't affect the schedule too much and would certainly be lots cheaper for the airline.

The good chaps at http://www.ausdig.com/ do similar work, but they work more on efficiency - i.e. the operation of the aircraft, especially with regards to fuel usage - there is an optimum way to fly an aircraft for a given route/weather condition etc, by sticking to this the airline can save fuel, which is money in the bank. Just one example, they do lots of other stuff.

Back to F1 - the teams are already doing the analysis and reckoning, they just need to reimplement how they do it.

Technically interesting but I can't see that anything that makes automatic adjustments to chassis/drive train/engine would be considered legal.

[Crafty_]

I don't see anything in the regs that make it illegal, the way this usually goes is the teams will do it until the FIA ban it...

[RGambo]

But the display could show a light signal, to instruct driver to act on a certain parameter. Say brake bias, yellow light move balance rear, red move bias front. I could see this sort of thing happening.

[LDN]

Derek Smith said:

carinaman said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXVwp0ZdlDo&li...

Lewis was faster.

You can't believe a thing Peter Windsor says. He's just using his experience and knowledge. That's not right.

Exactly! Don't let MGJohn watch this; his head will implode... in fact, let's hope he watches it

I jest

Good video and watching some of his others now.

[LDN]

RemarkLima said:

stevieeg said:

If I had to choose a driver story to buy into it would be the natural talent whose modestly wealthy family sacrificed everything to realise its potential, not a second generation racer. Hamilton's story represents a way into F1 for a latent talent that can't buy a drive or buy their way to it either. He can be as bling as he wants now as far as I'm concerned, it won't detract for me.

I know they play the humble beginnings tale quite often, but wasn't Hamilton picked up by McLaren at 12 and was fully funded from that point onwards?

To get funded / backed by McLaren; you have to be extraordinary... there's not much luck in being extraordinary... perhaps a dab of genetics, a lot of hard work, but above all; that last tenth that comes from the gods of mordor, or some such place...

McLaren have a good record and have nurtured many a talent, Lewis managed to take it all the way to the top... of the extraordinary talent that gets picked, an even more elite group will 'make it'. Vettel had the same backing from Red Bull as was seen as extraordinary in the same way.

The fight up through the ranks and to maintain any kind of dominance has NOTHING to do with luck. When someone is NOT talented and is there because of daddy or an oil company, perhaps that can be called luck. Rosberg has the daddy and the talent and so he gets a pass.

[007 VXR]

[Ken Sington]

007 VXR said:

He may be able to pedal but in 30ish years of watching F1, I have never disliked a driver as much as I do Hamilton, an there have been a fair few tw ats along the way. This sort of thing, ^, does nothing to change my opinion of him.

[HTP99]

Ken Sington said:

007 VXR said:

He may be able to pedal but in 30ish years of watching F1, I have never disliked a driver as much as I do Hamilton, an there have been a fair few tw ats along the way. This sort of thing, ^, does nothing to change my opinion of him.

Whilst I find it hard to like Hamilton I do actually want him to win this year, however I find that photo bomb quite funny, I think due to the current nature of Hamiltons and Rosbergs relationship.