Schumachers finest moments
Discussion
RichB said:
hat a ridiculous notion. If you have to search for a reason why many Brit's didn't take to him it was nothing to do with his nationality but a lot to do with him punting Damon Hill off in '94. he was one of the great racing drivers, probably one of the top 5 but his fans shouldn't try to invent spurious reasons for his unpopularity.
And if Hill was not a Brit would the situation remain?Talk of traction control, launch control etc... is this true and proven? Was he the only one playing by a different rulesheet?
Could he have been a Lance Armstrong type, doing nothing that others didn't, but pushing it further?
Ps. Hill fan.
vonuber said:
This cheating thing is a funny old thing, for some reason Schumacher just seems to bring it out in people - I suspect it is the dominance he had and the sheer desire to win which meant he crossed over the line (1997 really sticks out for me).
However, people who criticise Schumacher must surely do the same for our present crop of drivers (for example Alonso, who strikes me as a very similar mindset). And yet nobody does.
Odd that.
Yes just last year and prior RBR and Vettel were accused of running illegal wings, traction control, suspension levelling, illegal levelling planks..However, people who criticise Schumacher must surely do the same for our present crop of drivers (for example Alonso, who strikes me as a very similar mindset). And yet nobody does.
Odd that.
The thing about calling someone a cheat is that it actually is only an accusation. You don't need any evidence, just a keyboard.
Not to condone when M Schu did behave illegally. He still won a lot of times driving legally too!
RichB said:
frumpytrickle said:
Love him or hate him (and as a german man, most brits sadly dont love him)
What a ridiculous notion. If you have to search for a reason why many Brit's didn't take to him it was nothing to do with his nationality but a lot to do with him punting Damon Hill off in '94. he was one of the great racing drivers, probably one of the top 5 but his fans shouldn't try to invent spurious reasons for his unpopularity. frumpytrickle said:
And if Hill was not a Brit would the situation remain?
Exactly my point. So it matters not that Schumacher is German, he could have come from Timbuktu and after that incident Brit's would have taken against him. hora said:
Mclaren were doing what everyone else was upto. I remember 3 Toyota technicians were jailed. I thought that was abit out of order.
Funnily- Ferrari were dominate for seasons then the teams all wanted Concorde agreement etc changed and threatened a rival set up- next thing Bernie says he wants to break the big team domination and suddenly a small outfit called RedBull is dominant. Me paranoid?
It took RBR 6 years to get to the top though. They scored DNF after DNF for a while with DC and Webber in the drivers seats, then wunderkind Vettel came and saved the day Funnily- Ferrari were dominate for seasons then the teams all wanted Concorde agreement etc changed and threatened a rival set up- next thing Bernie says he wants to break the big team domination and suddenly a small outfit called RedBull is dominant. Me paranoid?
Actually DC and Webber's massive jaws affect the aero balance too much...vonuber said:
However, people who criticise Schumacher must surely do the same for our present crop of drivers (for example Alonso, who strikes me as a very similar mindset). And yet nobody does.
Odd that.
Err... because its a Schumi threadOdd that.
During the podium of the 1992 Australian GP Senna admitted to Mansell why he was such a b
d because he didn't want anyone else to have the winning feeling.I don't remember any of his finest moments. I was so busy hating the cheating bd that all those moments when he pulled victory from the jaws of defeat were just annoying.
Some of my most annoying Schumi moments:
Those qualifying laps he used to pull off mid race to make it to clear space after a pitstop
The way that even when he made a mistake and went off the track he rarely spun and often only lost a couple of seconds. Sometimes it was like he practically knew where all the paths through the sand traps were and when he overcooked a corner he'd abandon it early on and just drive through the trap rather than fight to keep a lost cause on the tarmac and spin out. He always seemed to be thinking. I remember him letting his brother unlap himself once so he could get a podium or something.
He was also very good at overtaking people with incredible ruthnessness and yet he also seemed to know when to back out.
And then I saw this clip about how he uses the throttle.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4
As much as I didn't like the guy I just cannot hide from the fact that he's the most complete racing driver I've ever seen. There were no bigs in his armour.
Ah, and here, go to 2:34 or so to see that controversial 1994 Benetton traction control in action
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1-S85xxMNI4
d that all those moments when he pulled victory from the jaws of defeat were just annoying.Some of my most annoying Schumi moments:
Those qualifying laps he used to pull off mid race to make it to clear space after a pitstop
The way that even when he made a mistake and went off the track he rarely spun and often only lost a couple of seconds. Sometimes it was like he practically knew where all the paths through the sand traps were and when he overcooked a corner he'd abandon it early on and just drive through the trap rather than fight to keep a lost cause on the tarmac and spin out. He always seemed to be thinking. I remember him letting his brother unlap himself once so he could get a podium or something.
He was also very good at overtaking people with incredible ruthnessness and yet he also seemed to know when to back out.
And then I saw this clip about how he uses the throttle.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4
As much as I didn't like the guy I just cannot hide from the fact that he's the most complete racing driver I've ever seen. There were no big
s in his armour. Ah, and here, go to 2:34 or so to see that controversial 1994 Benetton traction control in action
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1-S85xxMNI4
Edited by kiseca on Monday 29th September 21:05
Edited by kiseca on Monday 29th September 21:07
frumpytrickle said:
Talk of traction control, launch control etc... is this true and proven? Was he the only one playing by a different rulesheet?
nothing 'proven' ...but Senna was suspicious (& he should know) then Verstappen's fire & fuel rig tampering, Benetton fined for not allowing the FIA access to it's engine management systems, Verstappens subsequent statements regarding the sister Benetton ...& add Briatore's & Schumachers future conduct & it doesn't look good does it?vonuber said:
This cheating thing is a funny old thing, for some reason Schumacher just seems to bring it out in people - I suspect it is the dominance he had and the sheer desire to win which meant he crossed over the line (1997 really sticks out for me).
However, people who criticise Schumacher must surely do the same for our present crop of drivers (for example Alonso, who strikes me as a very similar mindset). And yet nobody does.
Odd that.
Not sure if serious? However, people who criticise Schumacher must surely do the same for our present crop of drivers (for example Alonso, who strikes me as a very similar mindset). And yet nobody does.
Odd that.
If so, can you point out where Alonso has punted off a competitor to win a WDC, attempted to punt off a competitor to win a WDC, parked his car on track in quali to stop competitors posting times & tried to put a competitor into a pit wall at 200mph?
Alonso may be a paranoid machiavellian b'stard out of the car, but on track- he's not even in the same ball park as Schumi
angrymoby said:
Not sure if serious?
If so, can you point out where Alonso has punted off a competitor to win a WDC, attempted to punt off a competitor to win a WDC, parked his car on track in quali to stop competitors posting times & tried to put a competitor into a pit wall at 200mph?
Alonso may be a paranoid machiavellian b'stard out of the car, but on track- he's not even in the same ball park as Schumi
Not sure why we'd need to be selective about what type of cheating we criticize but it is worth noting that Schumacher was not the first in F1 to be accused of any of those particular transgressions.If so, can you point out where Alonso has punted off a competitor to win a WDC, attempted to punt off a competitor to win a WDC, parked his car on track in quali to stop competitors posting times & tried to put a competitor into a pit wall at 200mph?
Alonso may be a paranoid machiavellian b'stard out of the car, but on track- he's not even in the same ball park as Schumi
However, having invited further debate on this subject I also feel compelled to point out that there have been many threads open to discuss Schumi's dark side, and everything bad about him mentioned in this thread has been discussed at length in every one of those threads. But this thread is the one - the first one that I can remember - to discuss his finest moments.
So can we keep it on topic? Those not wanting to talk about his best points really don't have to contribute anything nor even read the thread. There have been plenty of opportunities to diss the guy.
kiseca said:
So can we keep it on topic? Those not wanting to talk about his best points really don't have to contribute anything nor even read the thread.
You cannot discuss finest points without the context (his other behaviour). I'm happy to acknowledge that he was one of the best racing drivers we'll ever see, but am equally determined to add the necessary context.Otherwise this thread is simply whitewash.
EskimoArapaho said:
You cannot discuss finest points without the context (his other behaviour). I'm happy to acknowledge that he was one of the best racing drivers we'll ever see, but am equally determined to add the necessary context.
Otherwise this thread is simply whitewash.
This. Otherwise this thread is simply whitewash.
Probably in the top 3 drivers of all time, which makes his other antics even more frustrating, as he just didn't need to do the things he did- he was THAT good.
& for the record, i hope his finest moment is yet to come & we see him again
Edited by angrymoby on Tuesday 30th September 10:35
EskimoArapaho said:
You cannot discuss finest points without the context (his other behaviour). I'm happy to acknowledge that he was one of the best racing drivers we'll ever see, but am equally determined to add the necessary context.
Otherwise this thread is simply whitewash.
It's supposed to be a whitewash. That's why it's called Schumacher's Finest Moments, not Let's Discuss Schumi.Otherwise this thread is simply whitewash.
It's not a thread about Schumi, it's a thread about his finest moments. Discussing his lowest moments is no more relevant than 300bhp/ton recommending a '93 Camaro to someone looking for a cheap reliable economical hatchback.
I'm not asking to respect Schumi, just to respect the OP. It's not that hard. It's not like any of the cheating bits are news, either. On the other hand a few of the good bits have been news to me, I guess they're usually drowned out by the collisions and special tyres and contracts and Monaco and Barrichello's Wall. It's not like this thread will make everyonve forget about all that, is it.
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