****Japanese GP 2014****
Discussion
RYH64E said:
Jasandjules said:
I still find this odd and a little concerning, because they need a bit of speed to get the downforce to get the wets/intermediate tyres to grip. So if they slow down for safety, they might start falling off the road. Not to mention cold brakes....
Am I missing something?
Slowing down behind a safety car doesn't cause mayhem neither does slowing down for the pitlane, why would slowing down without a safety car lead to cars falling off the road?Am I missing something?
Apparently :-)
How fast can an aeroless caterham corner? Not too slowly
Claudia Skies said:
Sounds like a load of twaddle to me.
None of this would be necessary if they had waved some flags and deployed the safety car BEFORE sending a massive tractor out into the danger area.
The problem here is the presence of the tractor, not the F1 cars or their drivers.
The problem is all of the drivers taking the piss out of the double waved yellow rules and the FIA allowing them to.None of this would be necessary if they had waved some flags and deployed the safety car BEFORE sending a massive tractor out into the danger area.
The problem here is the presence of the tractor, not the F1 cars or their drivers.
A safety car for every car off track or any bit of debris would be impractical and ruin every race. Much better to slow the cars down, take the energy out of the situation, sort the problem, and get racing again.
If they won't slow down, black flag them.
Regardless of a tractor, the Marshall's need protecting in all situations
Edited by Inertiatic on Saturday 11th October 07:15
Anyone that thinks that Jules Bianchi could see the green flags being waved on that part of the track from the position that he lost control of his car is utterly wrong. The green flags were not visible from where he had his accident from his perspective in the cockpit and played absolutely no part in his accident.
I do however believe that the design of this part of the track, with the recovery vehicle being placed within the run off area of a fast corner, is a mistake. The access route for the tractor and the recovery route for the tractor placed that vehicle in the crash zone for that corner.
Therefore, the crash happened in a sector which should have been recognised as a sector which immediately needs a safety car should there have been need for a recovery.
Bad track design, and bad pre- race planning by the race officials, with bad reactions from the race director, with a lack of prudence by JB in not slowing enough (perhaps down to inexperience or over confidence) were undoubtedly all factors in this accident. It's also possible that he experienced a mechanical failure at the time, this has yet to be investigated.
It's a minor miracle that none of the marshals were taken out by this accident. There was a clear lack of thought given pre-race to this potential for disaster.
Maybe Mr Whiting is getting a bit past it? Experience counts for a lot, but reactions to this incident were woeful. It smacks of 'let's push on with the race' to me. In these race conditions, it was a cast iron safety car scenario when Sutil's car ended up where it did.
One question that hasn't been asked, does the tractor driver need the race directors permission to start the recovery ( and enter the track area) or does he decide to do it all on his own approval?
I do however believe that the design of this part of the track, with the recovery vehicle being placed within the run off area of a fast corner, is a mistake. The access route for the tractor and the recovery route for the tractor placed that vehicle in the crash zone for that corner.
Therefore, the crash happened in a sector which should have been recognised as a sector which immediately needs a safety car should there have been need for a recovery.
Bad track design, and bad pre- race planning by the race officials, with bad reactions from the race director, with a lack of prudence by JB in not slowing enough (perhaps down to inexperience or over confidence) were undoubtedly all factors in this accident. It's also possible that he experienced a mechanical failure at the time, this has yet to be investigated.
It's a minor miracle that none of the marshals were taken out by this accident. There was a clear lack of thought given pre-race to this potential for disaster.
Maybe Mr Whiting is getting a bit past it? Experience counts for a lot, but reactions to this incident were woeful. It smacks of 'let's push on with the race' to me. In these race conditions, it was a cast iron safety car scenario when Sutil's car ended up where it did.
One question that hasn't been asked, does the tractor driver need the race directors permission to start the recovery ( and enter the track area) or does he decide to do it all on his own approval?
I would like to suggest that anyone who thinks there was anything wrong with the use of lags, tractor, safety car or track design read the reports on the FIA press conference and consider what has happened many, many times in previous racing before suggesting things which could lead to a massive increase in safety car deployment with a corresponding reduction in the racing F1 is supposed to be about.
Claudia Skies said:
Can anyone explain how sending the tractor out contributed to safety?
Firstly yellow flags are shown which warn the drivers that there are marshals on the track. The drivers are supposed to slow sufficiently to ensure that none of them will endanger the marshals. If the drivers did what they were supposed to do, sending a tractor out to retrieve the stranded car woudn't be a problem. As we all know however, the drivers will typically lift off as little as they can possibly get away with so as not to lose time.
Had the tractor not been sent out and Sutil's car left where it was, anyone could potentially crash into it. The tractor, flags etc.. weren't what caused this accident. Unfortunately it was the driver carrying too much speed for the circumstances. Every driver is guilty of doing the same, and not just in F1. The only way that you will realistically stop this behavior is by imposing and enforcing limits, be they speed, time or simply sending the safety car out.
fatboy69 said:
I know it is irrelevant however if Jules hadn't hit the tractor (by that I mean if it wasn't there in the first place) what would he have ploughed into at the point of impact?
I can't quite work it out from the video that was posted on YouTube.
5 marshals and would have likely killed all of them. Maybe Sutil too.I can't quite work it out from the video that was posted on YouTube.
I'm going on memory having last seen the incident last weekend but if not the tractor he'd have hit the marshals recovering Sutils car.
Then again he may have missed everything by the odd metre and it would be a miraculous escape for all. Mind you that can be said of his accident too. 1 metre to the right and he'd be ok.
Then again he may have missed everything by the odd metre and it would be a miraculous escape for all. Mind you that can be said of his accident too. 1 metre to the right and he'd be ok.
fatboy69 said:
Would he have hit the marshals tower as it looks to me like he would have gone straight the gap in the wall.
this ^^^^he may not quite have cleared the end of the arnco, either way, it was still going to be nasty.
way I see it, better he hit the JCB than a few marshals, 200+ Kmh into people does not bear thinking about.
fatboy69 said:
Would he have hit the marshals tower as it looks to me like he would have gone straight the gap in the wall.
There is no gap in the wall. Tyre barrier overlaps the gap so there's no break in the wall of tyre barrier if a car were to arrive in the direction of travel from the circuit.Edited by fatboy69 on Saturday 11th October 14:19
You can check this on google street view in about 2 minutes instead of posting the wrong information.
zac510 said:
There is no gap in the wall. Tyre barrier overlaps the gap so there's no break in the wall of tyre barrier if a car were to arrive in the direction of travel from the circuit.
You can check this on google street view in about 2 minutes instead of posting the wrong information.
take a look at the picture of where the car ended up, then say the same.You can check this on google street view in about 2 minutes instead of posting the wrong information.
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