FIA looking to make F1 cars harder to drive
Discussion
I think a higher min weight would be good. I'd like fewer tyre restrictions, points for pole, points for fastest lap. No limit on engines or gearboxes.
The safety car rule needs looking at too, not because of todays events but to avoid the Singapore situation where so many laps are wasted.
The safety car rule needs looking at too, not because of todays events but to avoid the Singapore situation where so many laps are wasted.
mattikake said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116031
About bloody time! Less downforce, more power, manual gearboxes, steel brakes, no DRS, no access to telemetry, safety-only radio...
Completely behind the idea of this! I'd love to see a 'proper drivers championship' as Brundle put it once,About bloody time! Less downforce, more power, manual gearboxes, steel brakes, no DRS, no access to telemetry, safety-only radio...
Do we not risk going back to properly dangerous F1 again though?
tux said:
I wouldn't have thought so, car & circuit design is so much better now.
Plus im sure the regulations would limit max power, size of aero surfaces etc to try and keep things under control.
Better, but if you have lots more cars crashing due to them being on the limit then there still is a much increased risk of accidents/ injuries/ fatalities...Plus im sure the regulations would limit max power, size of aero surfaces etc to try and keep things under control.
tux said:
I wouldn't have thought so, car & circuit design is so much better now.
Plus im sure the regulations would limit max power, size of aero surfaces etc to try and keep things under control.
Would definitely add a new element of excitement - not that this season hasn't been eventful! Plus im sure the regulations would limit max power, size of aero surfaces etc to try and keep things under control.
F1GTRUeno said:
I'd just be happy if they had regulations like they did in the early/mid 90s.
V8/V10/V12 if you want
Cars always looked different but were in proportion, e.g weren't massively long and thin, Wings looked like they belonged on the car rather than oversized front, undersized rears.
I think obviously back then, cigarette liveries made a difference but the overall designs of the cars were neat and tidy and I remember the racing being good throughout that period, though I was young so perhaps just remember the good bits.
And they all ended up with a v10, as that was the best compromise between weight, packaging and performance. And if someone comes up with something novel that permits a different configuration, all that happens is that lots of money is then spent to copy it and everything is back at the status quo.V8/V10/V12 if you want
Cars always looked different but were in proportion, e.g weren't massively long and thin, Wings looked like they belonged on the car rather than oversized front, undersized rears.
I think obviously back then, cigarette liveries made a difference but the overall designs of the cars were neat and tidy and I remember the racing being good throughout that period, though I was young so perhaps just remember the good bits.
psdtj said:
Completely behind the idea of this! I'd love to see a 'proper drivers championship' as Brundle put it once,
Do we not risk going back to properly dangerous F1 again though?
The tubs and safety cells of the cars now are so strong that they could be implemented in any design really. HANS devices help too, as do much safer tracks.Do we not risk going back to properly dangerous F1 again though?
I think there's a lot of room to create something great without safety being compromised.
F1GTRUeno said:
psdtj said:
Completely behind the idea of this! I'd love to see a 'proper drivers championship' as Brundle put it once,
Do we not risk going back to properly dangerous F1 again though?
The tubs and safety cells of the cars now are so strong that they could be implemented in any design really. HANS devices help too, as do much safer tracks.Do we not risk going back to properly dangerous F1 again though?
I think there's a lot of room to create something great without safety being compromised.
Like most things we do, we go from one extreme to the other - of extreme danger to extreme safety. This has been the problem - the sport has over-compensated on safety to they point that the cars and circuits have become less of a skill. The skill should be in the competition, but that really only means their team mate and no-one else as that is the only true fair challenge. So while formula 1 is a formula of 2 cars against 18 others, it needs to be difficult.
You will never remove the danger element of driving a car round corners at 150mph+, but in trying to make it safer to do so, shouldn't mean the cars should be easy to drive. Unless they intend F1 cars to never be able to do more than 10mph... If they want it safe, then do that. It's like the sport needs to pick one side of the fence to be on.
F1GTRUeno said:
I'd just be happy if they had regulations like they did in the early/mid 90s.
V8/V10/V12 if you want
Cars always looked different but were in proportion, e.g weren't massively long and thin, Wings looked like they belonged on the car rather than oversized front, undersized rears.
I think obviously back then, cigarette liveries made a difference but the overall designs of the cars were neat and tidy and I remember the racing being good throughout that period, though I was young so perhaps just remember the good bits.
The cars started to look ugly by 1992. The sweet spot was 1984-1991. It was pure luck that more drivers weren't killed during this period, whereas we had a glut of accidents later on with hakkinen, wendlinger etc, when the tubs were actually stronger. My biggest regret was not going to the british Grand Prix in 1990 and hearing those v12's screaming.....can you imagine that era of racing with today's tv and audio coverage? Now that would be amazing. V8/V10/V12 if you want
Cars always looked different but were in proportion, e.g weren't massively long and thin, Wings looked like they belonged on the car rather than oversized front, undersized rears.
I think obviously back then, cigarette liveries made a difference but the overall designs of the cars were neat and tidy and I remember the racing being good throughout that period, though I was young so perhaps just remember the good bits.
A few days ago I posted something on my facebook page (erc-racing) questioning this... It came after the brilliant display of speed of Verstappen with 17 years of age only and on his first time drive an F1 on such demanding track.
Today I came across a relevant opinion of a somehow famous triple F1 world champion, the legend Niki Lauda!
http://youtu.be/mK_cTgOzlo0
What do you guys think?
Today I came across a relevant opinion of a somehow famous triple F1 world champion, the legend Niki Lauda!
http://youtu.be/mK_cTgOzlo0
What do you guys think?
I think 'easy' is a relative term when it comes to driving F1 cars. The driver has to find the confidence to push hard enough to get heat into the tyres so they can grip the track, heat into the brakes, so they work and for the car to generate enough downforce to keep it on the track.
The consensus among the drivers seems to be that this season's cars have much less downforce than in previous years, which means cornering speeds and g-forces are much lower which makes the cars less physically demanding to drive flat-out. On the other hand, the new power units are much more complex than before and the drivers have a higher workload to manage while driving.
The consensus among the drivers seems to be that this season's cars have much less downforce than in previous years, which means cornering speeds and g-forces are much lower which makes the cars less physically demanding to drive flat-out. On the other hand, the new power units are much more complex than before and the drivers have a higher workload to manage while driving.
Thought about this the other day. Whilst I have no idea about their driveability, I think technology plays a part...
Look at in car of senna at Monaco. Astonishing. Look at someone like Hamilton...looks easier. However, the shaking and graininess of the camera adds a lot more drama to the older footage. Presumably the modern cameras have self-levelling, anti-shake and therefore by definition look smoother.
Having said that, I'd guess they'd be easier. Power delivery smoother, greater down force, no manual gear changes etc.
Look at in car of senna at Monaco. Astonishing. Look at someone like Hamilton...looks easier. However, the shaking and graininess of the camera adds a lot more drama to the older footage. Presumably the modern cameras have self-levelling, anti-shake and therefore by definition look smoother.
Having said that, I'd guess they'd be easier. Power delivery smoother, greater down force, no manual gear changes etc.
OP - over a decade ago Lauda claimed a monkey could drive a contemporary F1 but when Lauda had a go in the Jaguar he spun! And this was when TC, pit-car telemetry was in use.
Today's cars are more difficult to drive. Hamilton has had to change his underwear a few times during FP this year notably under the bridge at Suzuka and Eau Rouge.
Loss of coanda exhaust/blown diffuser; peak torque and power now mid range rather than top end on NA units meant latter were easier to drive flat out.
Today's cars are more difficult to drive. Hamilton has had to change his underwear a few times during FP this year notably under the bridge at Suzuka and Eau Rouge.
Loss of coanda exhaust/blown diffuser; peak torque and power now mid range rather than top end on NA units meant latter were easier to drive flat out.
Normally Id argue "No, they arent" but I suppose its a relative term.
Alonso said of this years cars which are supposed to be a challenge, that they were not difficult at all to drive. Then again Brundle tries cars out for Sky and says theyre a handful.
What is difficult about them is that the drivers now have to process a whole load more information, change settings and tweak dials while keeping to a prescribed lap time. In that respect it used to be easier!
Alonso said of this years cars which are supposed to be a challenge, that they were not difficult at all to drive. Then again Brundle tries cars out for Sky and says theyre a handful.
What is difficult about them is that the drivers now have to process a whole load more information, change settings and tweak dials while keeping to a prescribed lap time. In that respect it used to be easier!
Gaz. said:
Jesus.That looked impressive on the TV, from the stands it just blows the mind.
I wouldn't even try that in karts.
I agree. The grandstand footage by fans always seems to convey speed and excitement far better than the 'polished' images from the cars.There was another overtake by the Mercedes earlier in the season, Bahrain I think but don't quote me. That was equally astounding. It would be interesting to see more.
Gaz. said:
That looks much more of a feat than I thought it was at the time!Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff