McLaren's shareholders not happy
Discussion
Gaz. said:
Mclaren have no big sponsors because Ron believes that their rate card is still the same as 2006. Put it this way, Johnnie Walker pay Mclaren $20m for a teeny tiny sticker. Martini pay Williams $15m for the entire car and title. There were several title sponsors lined up for this year and all of them pulled out because according to Ron 'they wanted to push the rate card down'.
Mclaren being barren of stickers is not because of Bernie, CVC, Tilke or Murdoch or seriously thick 'fans' pissing and moaning that they want 1986 to be re-run again and again, it is simply because their results do not tally with their rate card.
Spot on. And he has a point. You can only devalue your brand once. It's impossible to re-value it thereafter. Despite Martini, Williams still have a US$20m hole to fill. What's the latest figure for what Philip Morris pays for the shape of that Scuderia Ferrari 'flag' on the side of the car? I'm betting it's close to 9 figures...and look at all the other names on the Ferrari...that doesn't come cheap either.Mclaren being barren of stickers is not because of Bernie, CVC, Tilke or Murdoch or seriously thick 'fans' pissing and moaning that they want 1986 to be re-run again and again, it is simply because their results do not tally with their rate card.
Let's see what next season's McLaren has in the way of sponsors on it. I guess, given their results, it's unlikely we'll see Sony on the side of the car now.
FW18 said:
Ross Brawn to McLaren as Team Principal/CEO?
They sounded him out just after he announced his retirement. Quite possible he wanted to see how hands-on RD was going to be. I believe that ship has sailed, but maybe you're right; the Investors do seem to have a significant say in things. But I very much doubt they will kick him out; his relationship with Honda runs very deep and Honda set great store by such things.
Derek Smith said:
I'm talking about now. What his attitude was 40 years ago is immaterial.
As for 'still have to be approved', have you read the EU court's comments on the way Mosely ran the FIA? I say ran, but Mosley was Ecclestone's little me. Take a look at the amount Ecclestone paid for the rights and how much they were valued at just a few months later. Are you suggesting they were put out to tender?
Bernie will gain money from the sale. He still owns a sizeable chunk of the rights. He won't leave his position of authority until is suits him, and it doesn't at the moment.
What someone new in control will hopefully do is to get some planning in hand. There is not even any succession planning.
Ecclestone will 'leave' one way or the other fairly soon. If he leaves things in a state where F1 suffers then it will be an indictment of him.
I didn't say it was put out to tender but I don't believe that Moseley sold the rights on behalf of the FIA alone.As for 'still have to be approved', have you read the EU court's comments on the way Mosely ran the FIA? I say ran, but Mosley was Ecclestone's little me. Take a look at the amount Ecclestone paid for the rights and how much they were valued at just a few months later. Are you suggesting they were put out to tender?
Bernie will gain money from the sale. He still owns a sizeable chunk of the rights. He won't leave his position of authority until is suits him, and it doesn't at the moment.
What someone new in control will hopefully do is to get some planning in hand. There is not even any succession planning.
Ecclestone will 'leave' one way or the other fairly soon. If he leaves things in a state where F1 suffers then it will be an indictment of him.
How do you know there is no succession planning ? do you sit on the board of CVC ?
As far as your last comment goes you are saying that Bernie should prepare for succession for an owner that is as yet nidentified, for an unspecified time frame in circumstances that no-one knows ? seriously ?
FW18 said:
Ross Brawn to McLaren as Team Principal/CEO?
I very much doubt it. Brawn is in no rush to come back to F1, I'm not sure he ever will.[quote=Gaz.Had they done the double in 2012 and not thrown that car in the bin do you think we'd be having this topic today? As it is they will be fortunate to even score points at Suzuka.
Totally agree with the rate card vs performance thing, thats what I meant comparing them to Rousch Fenway, old Jack's ad spots are high dollar compared to the teams standing.
rubystone said:
What's the latest figure for what Philip Morris pays for the shape of that Scuderia Ferrari 'flag' on the side of the car? I'm betting it's close to 9 figures...and look at all the other names on the Ferrari...that doesn't come cheap either.
I may well be wrong, but don't Philip Morris own the entire space on the Ferraris, and basically rent out advertising slots to the other companies displayed? If it's still the case then they probably recoup a fair bit of the budget back.Hugo Boss have switched their sponsorship from McLaren to Mercedes http://www.pitpass.com/52565/Hugo-Boss-joins-Merce...
I got lost looking up whether McLaren losing the Johnnie Walker sponsorship was confirmed or denied.
I got lost looking up whether McLaren losing the Johnnie Walker sponsorship was confirmed or denied.
ajprice said:
Hugo Boss have switched their sponsorship from McLaren to Mercedes http://www.pitpass.com/52565/Hugo-Boss-joins-Merce...
I got lost looking up whether McLaren losing the Johnnie Walker sponsorship was confirmed or denied.
"Hugo Boss will create high-performance teamwear for the Waffen SS..." Oh no wait, that's from an old Hugo Boss press release...I got lost looking up whether McLaren losing the Johnnie Walker sponsorship was confirmed or denied.
Crafty_ said:
I didn't say it was put out to tender but I don't believe that Moseley sold the rights on behalf of the FIA alone.
As far as your last comment goes you are saying that Bernie should prepare for succession for an owner that is as yet nidentified, for an unspecified time frame in circumstances that no-one knows ? seriously ?
Para 1/As far as your last comment goes you are saying that Bernie should prepare for succession for an owner that is as yet nidentified, for an unspecified time frame in circumstances that no-one knows ? seriously ?
I think you missed the irony. Check back through some of the comments from the EU enquiry into the FIA's financial dealings.
One small point: I'm not sure that the commercial rights were for the FIA to sell, even so very cheaply. After all, they are merely the rule makers. Rather like they are now of course.
Para 2/
Of course that is what I'm saying. Succession planning is an essential. How can you suggest otherwise? Anyone with any concerns with the success of F1 in the future . . . oh, hold on, I see now.
If you accept that Ecclestone follows the money, the motivation behind his actions becomes clear.
This wont help.
http://news.sportauto.fr/news/1487024/hugo-boss-to...
Looks like Mclaren maybe going the same way as Williams. Not winning anything, no sponsors. No sponsors, no drivers. No drivers, no wins. No wins, no points.
http://news.sportauto.fr/news/1487024/hugo-boss-to...
Looks like Mclaren maybe going the same way as Williams. Not winning anything, no sponsors. No sponsors, no drivers. No drivers, no wins. No wins, no points.
[quote=Gaz.]More and more specialist media are reporting that the Honda ICE is 3-4 months behind schedule, it is too thirsty and not powerful enough. /quote]
If it is now 3-4 months behind schedule with the first test date at Jerez now exactly 4 months away then they have to do 7-8 months work in four months!
Having said that Honda/McLaren aren't going to promote stories and speculation that gives the opposite message - that they are ahead of schedule, the unit is super efficient and more powerful than their competition are they??
If it is now 3-4 months behind schedule with the first test date at Jerez now exactly 4 months away then they have to do 7-8 months work in four months!
Having said that Honda/McLaren aren't going to promote stories and speculation that gives the opposite message - that they are ahead of schedule, the unit is super efficient and more powerful than their competition are they??
Edited by Dave_newcastle on Wednesday 1st October 17:09
Look at how crap Williams were last year yet they still managed to get a big title sponsor on board who had multiple options. McLaren will be ok, as has been said previously, if Ron Dennis accepts that their actual seasonal worth has diminished, even if their historical worth hasn't.
Martin Whitmarsh legacy.
If he paid Lewis what Mercedes were offering they may not have fallen so far behind.
Memory serves correctly, he was on 15m, Merc offered him 20m and Martin wanted him to take a pay cut to match Jensons salary of 10m. Thinking the allure of winning titles with Mclaren would hold water and not expecting Mercedes to have made so much progress.
I also scoffed at Lewis thinking he wont win anything further!
If he paid Lewis what Mercedes were offering they may not have fallen so far behind.
Memory serves correctly, he was on 15m, Merc offered him 20m and Martin wanted him to take a pay cut to match Jensons salary of 10m. Thinking the allure of winning titles with Mclaren would hold water and not expecting Mercedes to have made so much progress.
I also scoffed at Lewis thinking he wont win anything further!
airbusA346 said:
Crafty_ said:
I can remember McLaren laying a granite tiled floor in their garage for the BGP, it was left there.
Interesting... I didn't know that is why one of the garage floors is different.AndStilliRise said:
Martin Whitmarsh legacy.
If he paid Lewis what Mercedes were offering they may not have fallen so far behind.
Memory serves correctly, he was on 15m, Merc offered him 20m and Martin wanted him to take a pay cut to match Jensons salary of 10m. Thinking the allure of winning titles with Mclaren would hold water and not expecting Mercedes to have made so much progress.
I also scoffed at Lewis thinking he wont win anything further!
Lewis said later that McLaren offered him more money than Merc. If he paid Lewis what Mercedes were offering they may not have fallen so far behind.
Memory serves correctly, he was on 15m, Merc offered him 20m and Martin wanted him to take a pay cut to match Jensons salary of 10m. Thinking the allure of winning titles with Mclaren would hold water and not expecting Mercedes to have made so much progress.
I also scoffed at Lewis thinking he wont win anything further!
Crafty_ said:
I can remember McLaren laying a granite tiled floor in their garage for the BGP, it was left there.
From memory, they were surplus from building the 
Rumour has it that Bernie tried to change McLaren's pit garage when he found out, just to piss Ron off.
I think Ron needs to pull some fairly major rabbits out of the hat. The way I understood it was that Honda basically paid for this season in lieu of a new Japanese title partner next year to present a unified front. However can they even have expected how rubbish this years car would be?
I am not at all convinced that Honda are in for the long term. They seem to be a company without a settled plan as to who they want to be. As far as the road car side goes the failure in Europe of their hybrid programme and the constant delays to the Type R and NSX vehicles do not bode well. A crap year in F1 and couple of crap years of car sales could see them vanish like a rat up a drain pipe.
And one thing that would help F1 sort it's life out is very small thing.
Adrian Newey rocking up at a Formula E race...
The thought of him and Red Bull running off to build a chassis and run a team there would make Bernie & CVC s
t their collective pants and probably concentrate their minds wonderfully.
I am not at all convinced that Honda are in for the long term. They seem to be a company without a settled plan as to who they want to be. As far as the road car side goes the failure in Europe of their hybrid programme and the constant delays to the Type R and NSX vehicles do not bode well. A crap year in F1 and couple of crap years of car sales could see them vanish like a rat up a drain pipe.
And one thing that would help F1 sort it's life out is very small thing.
Adrian Newey rocking up at a Formula E race...
The thought of him and Red Bull running off to build a chassis and run a team there would make Bernie & CVC s
t their collective pants and probably concentrate their minds wonderfully. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff