McLaren's shareholders not happy
Discussion
The Hypno-Toad said:
And one thing that would help F1 sort it's life out is very small thing.
Adrian Newey rocking up at a Formula E race...
The thought of him and Red Bull running off to build a chassis and run a team there would make Bernie & CVC s
t their collective pants and probably concentrate their minds wonderfully.
Don't think so. Red bull are in F1 for the marketing/prestige and all that bAdrian Newey rocking up at a Formula E race...
The thought of him and Red Bull running off to build a chassis and run a team there would make Bernie & CVC s
t their collective pants and probably concentrate their minds wonderfully. ks. Go ask joe public if they even know what Formula E is or who Newey is r where they can watch a race - not just here but world wide.As I understand it the formula is pretty restricted anyway, not sure the challenge is there for Newey. I think he will go off and do his yacht thing one day.
Kickstart said:
It's interesting that the sponsors we have mentioned (eg Johnny Walker, Martini etc except RB) don't target youngsters as I strongly suspect F1 and racing in general appeals these days to a much older market.
Yup.I've noticed as the years have gone by, that the younger generation (sub 30 yrs) that I've worked with at various firms are less and less interested, not just in F1 and motorsport, but cars/driving in general. A lot of them can't even drive. If F1 is mentioned, it's usually just among the sprinkling of us 50+ yr olds in the office(s) I work in.
That's very different to when I was sub-30yrs back in the 80's when the weekends F1 race was usually the prime topic of conversation on a Monday morning at work.
Boss news is old news. Yes, significant in that a McLaren partner has jumped ship after 25 plus years, but not surprising given the fact they are German. I can't see them coming out with a 'Lewis' range though, can you?...a sharp 3 button single-breasted teamed with an arse dragging pair of strides?...
anyways....I'd be very surprised if RD wasn't working Honda over to buy out the Mumtalakats & Ojjeh....but of course, that's pure speculation, but it's what I'd do if I were in his (highly polished, Bished up, shoes)...
anyways....I'd be very surprised if RD wasn't working Honda over to buy out the Mumtalakats & Ojjeh....but of course, that's pure speculation, but it's what I'd do if I were in his (highly polished, Bished up, shoes)...
The Hypno-Toad said:
I am not at all convinced that Honda are in for the long term. They seem to be a company without a settled plan as to who they want to be. As far as the road car side goes the failure in Europe of their hybrid programme and the constant delays to the Type R and NSX vehicles do not bode well. A crap year in F1 and couple of crap years of car sales could see them vanish like a rat up a drain pipe.
I think Honda will have a long term plan. They are still recovering from a major hit taken in 2007/8 with the global economic crash during which they rightly (probably) cancelled activity like F1, Type R and NSX to concentrate on the type of cars people were buying and reflected better on the image they wanted as an ecological organisation. They further suffered, I think, with the Tsunami. They are now rebuilding and the performance cars and F1 are part of that. I don't see a delay in the Civer Type R or NSX, just that they have been working on them fairly publicly so we have seen how long it is taking for them to (hopefully) get them right.It may not be perfect in F1 for McLaren and Honda next year, but I reckon they will get there pretty quickly.
andyps said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
I am not at all convinced that Honda are in for the long term. They seem to be a company without a settled plan as to who they want to be. As far as the road car side goes the failure in Europe of their hybrid programme and the constant delays to the Type R and NSX vehicles do not bode well. A crap year in F1 and couple of crap years of car sales could see them vanish like a rat up a drain pipe.
I think Honda will have a long term plan. They are still recovering from a major hit taken in 2007/8 with the global economic crash during which they rightly (probably) cancelled activity like F1, Type R and NSX to concentrate on the type of cars people were buying and reflected better on the image they wanted as an ecological organisation. They further suffered, I think, with the Tsunami. They are now rebuilding and the performance cars and F1 are part of that. I don't see a delay in the Civer Type R or NSX, just that they have been working on them fairly publicly so we have seen how long it is taking for them to (hopefully) get them right.It may not be perfect in F1 for McLaren and Honda next year, but I reckon they will get there pretty quickly.
REALIST123 said:
andyps said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
I am not at all convinced that Honda are in for the long term. They seem to be a company without a settled plan as to who they want to be. As far as the road car side goes the failure in Europe of their hybrid programme and the constant delays to the Type R and NSX vehicles do not bode well. A crap year in F1 and couple of crap years of car sales could see them vanish like a rat up a drain pipe.
I think Honda will have a long term plan. They are still recovering from a major hit taken in 2007/8 with the global economic crash during which they rightly (probably) cancelled activity like F1, Type R and NSX to concentrate on the type of cars people were buying and reflected better on the image they wanted as an ecological organisation. They further suffered, I think, with the Tsunami. They are now rebuilding and the performance cars and F1 are part of that. I don't see a delay in the Civer Type R or NSX, just that they have been working on them fairly publicly so we have seen how long it is taking for them to (hopefully) get them right.It may not be perfect in F1 for McLaren and Honda next year, but I reckon they will get there pretty quickly.
aeropilot said:
Kickstart said:
It's interesting that the sponsors we have mentioned (eg Johnny Walker, Martini etc except RB) don't target youngsters as I strongly suspect F1 and racing in general appeals these days to a much older market.
Yup.I've noticed as the years have gone by, that the younger generation (sub 30 yrs) that I've worked with at various firms are less and less interested, not just in F1 and motorsport, but cars/driving in general. A lot of them can't even drive. If F1 is mentioned, it's usually just among the sprinkling of us 50+ yr olds in the office(s) I work in.
That's very different to when I was sub-30yrs back in the 80's when the weekends F1 race was usually the prime topic of conversation on a Monday morning at work.
REALIST123 said:
The thing is though, that when they were in F1, 2000 to 2008, they didn't do much of a job, either in running the team or building the engines. Why will they do better this time?
They were trying to do too much by doing the whole car, and they didn't have the right people or stability to make a success of it. When they only did engines it worked much better. I hope that is the same again.In F1 there is no smoke without fire, so something is going on.
dennis gave an interview earlier in the year saying, Mclaren are Mclaren and the rate card stands. In todays climate that is a strong statement and could mean the car runs without sponsors for a while. where i think Ron has missed one trick is that free to air F1 is disappearing and hence some of its appeal to sponsors.
I think this is still the main reason whitmarsh got the boot, he was ready to accept less money to ensure the team had a title sponsor, dennis wasn't and won the boardroom battle.
I would guess the underlying story here is Mclaren don't have a title sponsor yet signed up, and the message from Bahrain is find one and quick or we will get someone else in.
Honda's money will only cover so many of the bills, and Honda won't want to shoulder all the expense, they will want mclaren coming to the table with a big name, with a big cheque book. Maybe there is pressure from Honda to find a title sponsor as well?
dennis gave an interview earlier in the year saying, Mclaren are Mclaren and the rate card stands. In todays climate that is a strong statement and could mean the car runs without sponsors for a while. where i think Ron has missed one trick is that free to air F1 is disappearing and hence some of its appeal to sponsors.
I think this is still the main reason whitmarsh got the boot, he was ready to accept less money to ensure the team had a title sponsor, dennis wasn't and won the boardroom battle.
I would guess the underlying story here is Mclaren don't have a title sponsor yet signed up, and the message from Bahrain is find one and quick or we will get someone else in.
Honda's money will only cover so many of the bills, and Honda won't want to shoulder all the expense, they will want mclaren coming to the table with a big name, with a big cheque book. Maybe there is pressure from Honda to find a title sponsor as well?
Kickstart and Aeropilots posts could be prescient, the upcoming generations are not nearly so interested in getting oily, driving, motorbiking, guitar music and many of the things their Dads hold dear.
Sponsors money will go where it can reach their target consumer, if nobody under 40yrs watches F1 any more it will cease to be VFM to advertisers and revenue will shrink.
As a middle aged bloke I don't know what half the sponsors products are anyway but neither does my 17 yr old son, which unless they are targeting other countries is slightly worrying.
As an aside, the poster who brought up the Hugo Boss Nazi connection might like to research Mercedes war record, indeed even Enzo Ferrari profited greatly from the war. Russian sponsorship money today is not exactly squeaky clean either.
Sponsors money will go where it can reach their target consumer, if nobody under 40yrs watches F1 any more it will cease to be VFM to advertisers and revenue will shrink.
As a middle aged bloke I don't know what half the sponsors products are anyway but neither does my 17 yr old son, which unless they are targeting other countries is slightly worrying.
As an aside, the poster who brought up the Hugo Boss Nazi connection might like to research Mercedes war record, indeed even Enzo Ferrari profited greatly from the war. Russian sponsorship money today is not exactly squeaky clean either.
One thing that might be more important that we know is that Boss have left after 25 years. Who else makes designer clothes that might be suitable to go on a McLaren? Tommy Hilfiger possibly?
Who is in charge of Tommy Hilfiger? That would be Lawrence Stroll. The same multi gazillionaire Lawrence Stroll who has a son he is trying to place into a F1 team & was trying to buy into Sauber a few weeks ago.
That all seems to have gone a bit quiet.... I wonder why?
Who is in charge of Tommy Hilfiger? That would be Lawrence Stroll. The same multi gazillionaire Lawrence Stroll who has a son he is trying to place into a F1 team & was trying to buy into Sauber a few weeks ago.
That all seems to have gone a bit quiet.... I wonder why?
Does anyone else think that Ron just isn't the right guy to be leading the team? I mean great in his day but a bit old fashioned now?
Also, the results have hardly done a U turn since Whitmarsh left which makes you wonder if actually the problems run a lot deeper than the 1 guy sitting at the top.
Also, the results have hardly done a U turn since Whitmarsh left which makes you wonder if actually the problems run a lot deeper than the 1 guy sitting at the top.
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