Welcome back Jenson?
Discussion
team underdog said:
The post race chat between Ron and JB caught on sky's paddock live looked very much like a break up chat to me.
I hope I'm wrong.
Ron though is ever increasingly coming across as a Dr Evil character. He's got the futuristic base, his minions and a grand plan to conquer the world. I admire him for what he's created out of McLaren but their handling of not only the drivers choice, but the season as a whole, is making them look pretty silly.
Agreed and JB was pretty aggressive in his manner straight after it. I hope I'm wrong.
Ron though is ever increasingly coming across as a Dr Evil character. He's got the futuristic base, his minions and a grand plan to conquer the world. I admire him for what he's created out of McLaren but their handling of not only the drivers choice, but the season as a whole, is making them look pretty silly.
But I think it's because Ron hasn't confirmed or released him
My gut feeling is that JB will be kept on.
dr_gn said:
As confirmed by the apparent total lack of interest from any other F1 team for many months now.
IMO Button's Championship was more about his car, and his stats compared with Hamilton are more to do with Hamilton's slump than Button's inherent speed. Nice guy, but the real deal? Whitmarsh and Button were a perfect match.
Prove me wrong...
July 2002IMO Button's Championship was more about his car, and his stats compared with Hamilton are more to do with Hamilton's slump than Button's inherent speed. Nice guy, but the real deal? Whitmarsh and Button were a perfect match.
Prove me wrong...
"Jenson Button is putting his career on the line by teaming up with Jacques Villeneuve at British American Racing next season.
That is the view of Williams driver Juan Pablo Montoya, who says that Villeneuve will try to destroy Button mentally at the earliest opportunity."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
Jan 2003
"Former world champion Villeneuve made it clear at the launch of the new BAR 005 car that the Briton would have to improve before he makes an impression as a driver."
"Button brings to the sport what the boy bands bring to music." said Villeneuve.
"I will respect Jenson once he goes quick on a race track," said the Canadian.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
Jacques came 2nd in the WDC in his first season and won it in his second season. Much as I consider Villeneuve a class A cock master that's not a bad achievement.
What happened in 2003? Bar the first race Button never finished behind Villeneuve and ended up with almost three times the amount of points.
He put his career and reputation on the line again when he joined Lewis at McLaren. It was apparently foolish and going into the lions den. Didn't seem to do him much harm in there though.
But how many more team mates does JB have to beat over his entire career?
Edited by Agent Orange on Sunday 23 November 23:32
Agent Orange said:
dr_gn said:
As confirmed by the apparent total lack of interest from any other F1 team for many months now.
IMO Button's Championship was more about his car, and his stats compared with Hamilton are more to do with Hamilton's slump than Button's inherent speed. Nice guy, but the real deal? Whitmarsh and Button were a perfect match.
Prove me wrong...
July 2002IMO Button's Championship was more about his car, and his stats compared with Hamilton are more to do with Hamilton's slump than Button's inherent speed. Nice guy, but the real deal? Whitmarsh and Button were a perfect match.
Prove me wrong...
"Jenson Button is putting his career on the line by teaming up with Jacques Villeneuve at British American Racing next season.
That is the view of Williams driver Juan Pablo Montoya, who says that Villeneuve will try to destroy Button mentally at the earliest opportunity."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
Jan 2003
"Former world champion Villeneuve made it clear at the launch of the new BAR 005 car that the Briton would have to improve before he makes an impression as a driver."
"Button brings to the sport what the boy bands bring to music." said Villeneuve.
"I will respect Jenson once he goes quick on a race track," said the Canadian.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
What happened in 2003? Bar the first race Button never finished behind Villeneuve and ended up with almost three times the amount of points. Jacques came 2nd in the WDC in his first season and won it in his second season. Much as I dislike the man that's not a bad achievement.
He put his career and reputation on the line again when he joined Lewis at McLaren. It was apparently foolish and going into the lions den. Didn't seem to do him much harm in there though.
But how many more team mates does JB have to beat over his entire career?
Edited by Agent Orange on Sunday 23 November 23:31
People have always tried to belittle his ability, but there are simply too many noteworthy achievements in his career for any one of them to be pure coincidence. Apart from one extra WDC FA's career is remarkably similar and yet his ability is almost never in doubt.
IMO it's been clear from Ron's return that he's not a fan of Button's and it wouldn't surprise me if that's purely because he was hired under Whitmarsh.
I think the way McLaren / RD is treating both JB and Magnussen is very poor. Aside from the fact that I think JB should be the obvious choice based on performance and experience alone, I am looking forward to finding out the real reason why Mclaren / RD are treating their drivers like this. I wonder if they treat other employees with less of a profile in the same manner. In any business it is importnant to communicate with employees and help them understand their future career within the organisation, whatever that may be. It is no different for McLaren and their drivers. I only see this indecision as damaging to McLaren / Honda / RD.
I can only imagine the public backlash against Mclaren / honda / RD if Button is dropped and Bristish / Button fans have been denied giving him the send off he deserves. it will be a PR disaster and one which I think could taint McLaren Honda in the eyes of the public for quite some time (RD's reputation as a reasonable guy is not exactly stellar so possibly less of a concern for him).
PH
I can only imagine the public backlash against Mclaren / honda / RD if Button is dropped and Bristish / Button fans have been denied giving him the send off he deserves. it will be a PR disaster and one which I think could taint McLaren Honda in the eyes of the public for quite some time (RD's reputation as a reasonable guy is not exactly stellar so possibly less of a concern for him).
PH
Sound like you are ex-GE... Very familair to me as well, and I still can't break the habit.
ie. $10MM is ten million dollars. Same as $10M.
Agent Orange said:
RichB said:
I know that 
what metric is an MM?
Ah millions. It's used a lot at work so I find myself using it outside out of habit. what metric is an MM?ie. $10MM is ten million dollars. Same as $10M.
Prancing Hippo said:
I think the way McLaren / RD is treating both JB and Magnussen is very poor. Aside from the fact that I think JB should be the obvious choice based on performance and experience alone, I am looking forward to finding out the real reason why Mclaren / RD are treating their drivers like this. I wonder if they treat other employees with less of a profile in the same manner. In any business it is importnant to communicate with employees and help them understand their future career within the organisation, whatever that may be. It is no different for McLaren and their drivers. I only see this indecision as damaging to McLaren / Honda / RD.
I can only imagine the public backlash against Mclaren / honda / RD if Button is dropped and Bristish / Button fans have been denied giving him the send off he deserves. it will be a PR disaster and one which I think could taint McLaren Honda in the eyes of the public for quite some time (RD's reputation as a reasonable guy is not exactly stellar so possibly less of a concern for him).
PH
Not sure they will care much about those issues. I think Button still has 1-2 good seasons left in him, Alonso/Button would give Mclaren a strong driver line up, interestingly maybe not for qualifying but in terms of race craft and pace. I think RD has never really rated Button, he was a Whitmarsh signing, i guess we will see after 1st Dec who they go for although from Jensen tweets looks like he preparing to say goodbye, which is a shameI can only imagine the public backlash against Mclaren / honda / RD if Button is dropped and Bristish / Button fans have been denied giving him the send off he deserves. it will be a PR disaster and one which I think could taint McLaren Honda in the eyes of the public for quite some time (RD's reputation as a reasonable guy is not exactly stellar so possibly less of a concern for him).
PH
Saw Stoffel Vandoorne race in GP2 (McLaren sponsored driver) and though he appears good, I don't see that he is ready for F1 (just done his first season in GP2). Of course, I am no expert and don't have much to back that up other than just my opinion. However, after RD's comment on Sky Sports about 4 drivers going into 2 spaces, perhaps therefore referring to SV, surely a safer bet would be keep the expereince of Button for the new engine parntership with Honda, and then develop VD to take the seat in the 2-3 years as and when JB or Alonso decide to move on.
McLaren are in a mess regarding drivers. The deal with Alonso is done but there are questions about his financial package and which sponsors he brings with him....Santander plus an other. McLaren have sponsors leaving and are short of funds. They will not be able to afford two expensive drivers as the teams overheads are huge as are some of the salaries paid to staff. Sadly unless a driver turns up with a minimum of £8,000,000 McLaren won't be interested. Either the second driver is cheap or he has money from a backer. A sad fact but F1 today is not awash with cash as it was 10-15 years ago with the IT and Telco's funding teams.
Time for McLaren to wake up and look at the global economy not Ron's idea of what space on a middle ranking car (McLaren) is worth at best.
Time for McLaren to wake up and look at the global economy not Ron's idea of what space on a middle ranking car (McLaren) is worth at best.
Swervin_Mervin said:
Finished 3rd behind the dominant Ferraris in 2004. Won a WDC in 2009. Finished second to the dominant Red Bulls in 2011. Outscored his teammate LH across the three seasons. Has been named multiple times as the favourite driver of the team principals up and down the paddock.
People have always tried to belittle his ability, but there are simply too many noteworthy achievements in his career for any one of them to be pure coincidence. Apart from one extra WDC FA's career is remarkably similar and yet his ability is almost never in doubt.
IMO it's been clear from Ron's return that he's not a fan of Button's and it wouldn't surprise me if that's purely because he was hired under Whitmarsh.
Button was beaten by LH in 2 of the 3 seasons, and had 5 fewer DNFs than Hamilton over all 3 years. He definitely won on the DNF score People have always tried to belittle his ability, but there are simply too many noteworthy achievements in his career for any one of them to be pure coincidence. Apart from one extra WDC FA's career is remarkably similar and yet his ability is almost never in doubt.
IMO it's been clear from Ron's return that he's not a fan of Button's and it wouldn't surprise me if that's purely because he was hired under Whitmarsh.
belleair302 said:
McLaren are in a mess
Thats all you needed to say. Thye've been a shambles for years now. The opportunities they have missed through poor preparation and leadership when they had a fast car will hurt them for many years. I've never been a particular fan of Button and at the time, I felt his relationship with Whitmarsh was a key part of the teams demise (too busy manipulating and playing politics together instead of focusing on the job). But on reflection he has been good for the sport and I think it a very harsh to be quietly shepherded into retirement like this, outside of the season. I hope he is still at McLaren next year but I expect not.johnfm said:
Has Williams confirmed their driver lineup yet?
unfortunately yes. Don't get me wrong, love Massa and Bottas, but would love to see JB go full circle and end his career at Williams - coupled with the great work they've done recently he maybe could've found them a win next year (again, not that FM and VB aren't capable, before anyone jumps on me!)dr_gn said:
As confirmed by the apparent total lack of interest from any other F1 team for many months now.
Purely because bringing sponsors/funds is more important than scoring points, in my opinion. In a straight choice between JB and KM next season if all McLaren want is points, all the evidence points to JB. He is still fit enough, fast enough and walked over KM this season. It would be a no brainer if the choice was for sporting reasons, not financial.
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