Welcome back Jenson?
Discussion
Prancing Hippo said:
I wonder if Mclaren PR bods read these forums and what they make of it, and if is has any impact what, based on the PH forum at least, the overwhelming majority of bristish public / McLaren fans want...?
With respect, I don't think that a F1 racing team should be doing what the fans want. They should be doing what is best for the team. They will get the fans that appreciate what it is they are doing. I don't particularly like the way Ron has gone about his business this year, firstly the way Martin Whitmarsh was ejected with out any formal statement. It just seemed a little unprofessional, to have him not there and treat the situation as if he'd NEVER been there, it was like Ron wouldn't acknowledge the man existed, I thought that was a shoddy way to treat an employee that had served the team for so long. I feel the same way about the way he has gone about his driver dealings this year. Another thing I find strange is the way Ron dresses. The whole team is in team kit except him. He wanders round being the head of the team in shirt and trousers, as if he's saying, I'm different, not part of this team, but in charge. But like I said, it's his team he should do what he feels is right. It doesn't matter what I think, I have lost interest in the team for the reasons I have mentioned, but I didn't follow them when Ron was last in charge as I didn't like the vibe of the team, so I'll accept them for who they are and continue to support Williams.
_Batty_ said:
Apols for screen grab. Bye JB
RGambo said:
Prancing Hippo said:
I wonder if Mclaren PR bods read these forums and what they make of it, and if is has any impact what, based on the PH forum at least, the overwhelming majority of bristish public / McLaren fans want...?
With respect, I don't think that a F1 racing team should be doing what the fans want. They should be doing what is best for the team. Which is why Ron has to go. Eric must leave too. They are just toxic. They impede progress.
McLarens problems are not drivers. Not engineers either - they just hired Adrian Newey's protege after all.
Mclarens problem is its management and organisation. They are so political and duplicitous that it works against the team and the results they could achieve.
Right now, Ron Dennis has created a situation whereby the team is coming second to the position and desires of one driver - Alonso. NO driver must come before the team, but Ron has created a situation all by himself whereby the team is at the whim of a driver.
Ron and Eric MUST go. Mclaren needs a new management structure, just as Mercedes has with Toto, Paddy and Niki. Mclaren need the same change, the same sense of "team". They will never achieve this with Ron there.
Its not about the drivers. Its about the arses managing the team. Fire. Them. Now.
toppstuff said:
McLarens problems are not drivers. Not engineers either - they just hired Adrian Newey's protege after all.
Mclarens problem is its management and organisation. They are so political and duplicitous that it works against the team and the results they could achieve.
Who do you think hired the engineers and Adrian Newey's protege?Mclarens problem is its management and organisation. They are so political and duplicitous that it works against the team and the results they could achieve.
toppstuff said:
NO driver must come before the team, but Ron has created a situation all by himself whereby the team is at the whim of a driver.
I think the problem stems partly from success. Ferrari were very successful by building around a driver and they see that as model to emulate?Ron Dennis does not respect the fans or need them in his own mind , that's why he is the wrong man for the job . I for one will be spending my money elsewhere at Autosport if he lets Botton go !! Perhaps if enough of us stop spending on McLaren Merchendise he will start to feel the pinch !!!! No way in hell am I buying a Alonso shirt !!
TuxMan said:
Ron Dennis does not respect the fans or need them in his own mind , that's why he is the wrong man for the job . I for one will be spending my money elsewhere at Autosport if he lets Botton go !! Perhaps if enough of us stop spending on McLaren Merchendise he will start to feel the pinch !!!! No way in hell am I buying a Alonso shirt !!
Do you truly think they give a s
t about 'fans' not buying a poloshirt once a year?It's the people who pay to get there name on the side of the car that matter, You and I are nothing to the team.
egor110 said:
It's the people who pay to get there name on the side of the car that matter, You and I are nothing to the team.
I'd agree - up to a point. Those people that pay to get their name on the car need an audience to see it.If people are switching off that's a bad thing for them whether it be Vettel dominating for 4 years, exploding tyres, double points or no driver to support.
But sponsorship exposure and sections of the general public switching off isn't the major problem here. To me it's that Ron Dennis, at least publicly, appears to be dithering and, dare I say it, a little bit weak.
If McLaren are putting together a team to rebuild for the future should that team really include Ron given this recent, seemingly poorly managed, episode?
No, it isn't about polo shirts, but why do you think the big names pay to put their branding on the car?
Hospitality, entertainment, but also brand awareness, image.. etc.
While you or I individually may not matter, the sponsors are buying association with a brand (McLaren). Tarnish that brand and you make that association less attractive. You or I individually may not matter, but we (may) be representative of a broader feeling.
Hospitality, entertainment, but also brand awareness, image.. etc.
While you or I individually may not matter, the sponsors are buying association with a brand (McLaren). Tarnish that brand and you make that association less attractive. You or I individually may not matter, but we (may) be representative of a broader feeling.
I'm sure they will make it back to the top again and for the sport I hope it does not take as long as it has for Williams.
If and when they have a good car they will probably win another championship but I don't think Alonso will make that anymore likely than Button. He might however make a poor car look a bit more exciting although if this makes any significant difference to the points haul at the end of the season is probably unlikely.
At the moment Mercedes have taken McLarens place and given the similar appearance(colour)and association they probably don't make the most appealing investment prospect.
If and when they have a good car they will probably win another championship but I don't think Alonso will make that anymore likely than Button. He might however make a poor car look a bit more exciting although if this makes any significant difference to the points haul at the end of the season is probably unlikely.
At the moment Mercedes have taken McLarens place and given the similar appearance(colour)and association they probably don't make the most appealing investment prospect.
Well my imaginary tens of millions of sponsorship would never go in the direction of McLaren.
They are poor value for money, with an unattractive image.
The team is run by a man who, to put it bluntly, has lost the plot.
This is NOT about Jenson. Its about the hubris of a team leader who really should not be there anymore.
Eric is little better.
Contrast the mood, the ethos, and the sheer performance of Mercedes with McLaren. Look at the strong, yet human and collaborative spirit inside Mercedes fostered by Toto, Paddy and Niki Lauda. Mercedes is a proper team that works together. They are all strong people, but they all have a role to play. Mclaren in contrast is the Ron Dennis show. And its not working.
They are poor value for money, with an unattractive image.
The team is run by a man who, to put it bluntly, has lost the plot.
This is NOT about Jenson. Its about the hubris of a team leader who really should not be there anymore.
Eric is little better.
Contrast the mood, the ethos, and the sheer performance of Mercedes with McLaren. Look at the strong, yet human and collaborative spirit inside Mercedes fostered by Toto, Paddy and Niki Lauda. Mercedes is a proper team that works together. They are all strong people, but they all have a role to play. Mclaren in contrast is the Ron Dennis show. And its not working.
Agent Orange said:
egor110 said:
It's the people who pay to get there name on the side of the car that matter, You and I are nothing to the team.
I'd agree - up to a point. Those people that pay to get their name on the car need an audience to see it.If people are switching off that's a bad thing for them whether it be Vettel dominating for 4 years, exploding tyres, double points or no driver to support.
But sponsorship exposure and sections of the general public switching off isn't the major problem here. To me it's that Ron Dennis, at least publicly, appears to be dithering and, dare I say it, a little bit weak.
If McLaren are putting together a team to rebuild for the future should that team really include Ron given this recent, seemingly poorly managed, episode?
Now you throw your toys out the pram re McLaren , McLaren get shown on tv your still going to see the car with it's sponsors despite the fact you no longer like them.
Re people switching off this more to do with it not being on 'free' tv anymore , when it was on bbc/itv people would view casually because it was on , it was free and they had nothing else on, the casual viewer is not going to pay sky for a sport they can take or leave.
toppstuff said:
Well my imaginary tens of millions of sponsorship would never go in the direction of McLaren.
They are poor value for money, with an unattractive image.
The team is run by a man who, to put it bluntly, has lost the plot.
This is NOT about Jenson. Its about the hubris of a team leader who really should not be there anymore.
Eric is little better.
Contrast the mood, the ethos, and the sheer performance of Mercedes with McLaren. Look at the strong, yet human and collaborative spirit inside Mercedes fostered by Toto, Paddy and Niki Lauda. Mercedes is a proper team that works together. They are all strong people, but they all have a role to play. Mclaren in contrast is the Ron Dennis show. And its not working.
Think a lot of British fans have been disappointed in McLaren these last few years.They are poor value for money, with an unattractive image.
The team is run by a man who, to put it bluntly, has lost the plot.
This is NOT about Jenson. Its about the hubris of a team leader who really should not be there anymore.
Eric is little better.
Contrast the mood, the ethos, and the sheer performance of Mercedes with McLaren. Look at the strong, yet human and collaborative spirit inside Mercedes fostered by Toto, Paddy and Niki Lauda. Mercedes is a proper team that works together. They are all strong people, but they all have a role to play. Mclaren in contrast is the Ron Dennis show. And its not working.
Keeping Jenson dangling these past few months hasn't been very good viewing
egor110 said:
Agent Orange said:
egor110 said:
It's the people who pay to get there name on the side of the car that matter, You and I are nothing to the team.
I'd agree - up to a point. Those people that pay to get their name on the car need an audience to see it.If people are switching off that's a bad thing for them whether it be Vettel dominating for 4 years, exploding tyres, double points or no driver to support.
But sponsorship exposure and sections of the general public switching off isn't the major problem here. To me it's that Ron Dennis, at least publicly, appears to be dithering and, dare I say it, a little bit weak.
If McLaren are putting together a team to rebuild for the future should that team really include Ron given this recent, seemingly poorly managed, episode?
Now you throw your toys out the pram re McLaren , McLaren get shown on tv your still going to see the car with it's sponsors despite the fact you no longer like them.
Re people switching off this more to do with it not being on 'free' tv anymore , when it was on bbc/itv people would view casually because it was on , it was free and they had nothing else on, the casual viewer is not going to pay sky for a sport they can take or leave.
Hence why there is so much time and money spent on brand management and PR worldwide.
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