Welcome back Jenson?

[LDM]

MissChief said:

EskimoArapaho said:

This must be part of it. Toto Wolff says the car is 90% and the driver is only 10%, and that's part of it, too.

Younger and younger drivers are being fast-tracked into F1: Vettel, Kvyat... now Verstappen. They cost peanuts on the wage bill, and even if a good newbie has say 3/4 of the skill of a seasoned driver like JB, you'd get 97.5% out of the car+driver combination, at a fraction of the cost.

So maybe older/waning Champions aren't going to be getting top rides anywhere in the future?

And yet Honda have apparently insisting on Alonso or another star driver and the only one really available was Alonso as soon as they found out there was a chance he'd be released from his Ferrari contract?

Maybe the new car will not be upto the 90%?

[hairyben]

EskimoArapaho said:

This must be part of it. Toto Wolff says the car is 90% and the driver is only 10%, and that's part of it, too.

Younger and younger drivers are being fast-tracked into F1: Vettel, Kvyat... now Verstappen. They cost peanuts on the wage bill, and even if a good newbie has say 3/4 of the skill of a seasoned driver like JB, you'd get 97.5% out of the car+driver combination, at a fraction of the cost.

So maybe older/waning Champions aren't going to be getting top rides anywhere in the future?

This is all hilariously arbitrary but if you're going to play it multiply driver/car percentages don't add them up, thus a driver with 3/4 of the skill will only achieve 3/4 of the cars potential, regardless of what that potential is. Using life to prove the model, it seems a more likely way to get 126-55 at any rate...

[Some Gump]

EskimoArapaho said:

This must be part of it. Toto Wolff says the car is 90% and the driver is only 10%, and that's part of it, too.

...If he has said that (and I doubt it), then Toto Wolff is talking out of his arse. Not only are both the teams (Merc and Williams) paying for stars when they could be getting a much cheaper man (if it's only 10%), but please can his maths explain:



Nowhere on the grid - not in any team, has any driver pairing scored within 10% of each other on points.

Furthermore, nowhere on the grid is it more important than the midfield. Just look at what happens if all teams had to rely on their second driver:



Force India use 2 solid points scorers, rather than a star and a rookie. There is no way the 10% quote is correct.

However, that's why I doubt TW said that. You don't end up as successful as he is by making daft judgements.

[anonymous-user]

Why do these threads always seem to descend into the ridiculous?

[weyland yutani]

For Magnussen, being dropped by a big team after one year would be pretty damaging to his future prospects, even if he took a reserve driver role within the team. JB was given the chance at a second season and enjoyed many more since. MAG has struggled but I think he deserves a second season to develop.

I'd love to see Button continue but the driver market and lack of competitive seats hasn't fallen in his favour this year. Massa has been hot and cold again this year and isn't as deserving to stay in F1 as JB

Edited by weyland yutani on Thursday 27th November 19:24

Edited by weyland yutani on Thursday 27th November 19:24

[HoHoHo]

EskimoArapaho said:

HoHoHo said:

Apparently it appears it's not simply about hiring the best drivers anymore......shame.

This must be part of it. Toto Wolff says the car is 90% and the driver is only 10%, and that's part of it, too.

Younger and younger drivers are being fast-tracked into F1: Vettel, Kvyat... now Verstappen. They cost peanuts on the wage bill, and even if a good newbie has say 3/4 of the skill of a seasoned driver like JB, you'd get 97.5% out of the car+driver combination, at a fraction of the cost.

So maybe older/waning Champions aren't going to be getting top rides anywhere in the future?

They will but for example it boils down to how much money Santander is going to provide for Alonso to drive to the team.

What has JB got to offer apart from an £8 million salary?

[EskimoArapaho]

Some Gump said:

...If he has said that (and I doubt it), then Toto Wolff is talking out of his arse. Not only are both the teams (Merc and Williams) paying for stars when they could be getting a much cheaper man (if it's only 10%),

...

However, that's why I doubt TW said that.

OK...

Toto Wolff in interview said:

“90% is the car and 10% is the driver,” Wolff told Forbes at the Circuit of the Americas in Austin, eating a prosciutto and tomato sandwich on wheat bread ahead of the day’s practice session, “but if you can’t get the full 10% from the driver, you’re screwed.”

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2014/11/...

[Some Gump]

Rather different message when quoted in full, non?

[shalon]

Likes Fast Cars said:

We've already forgot the opening race of the year.....

Meant quick enough to contact Williams before they made their drivers decision

[stevesingo]

HoHoHo said:

Sorry late to this thread so this may not be exciting news but I've just heard from a respected source (albeit through an employee of that source) Jenson won't be in the seat as he's not bringing in enough money to the pot

Alonso is bringing money and will probably drive alongside a McLaren test driver.

Apparently it appears it's not simply about hiring the best drivers anymore......shame.

If that is the case, McLaren needing pay drivers, then McLaren are no better than a midfield team such as FI or Sauber.

Ron Dennis needs shaking by the collar to realise his team is no more blue chip, and no multinational with $50m per year to spend on marketing will not touch them until he ceases to be part of the problem. The marketability has significantly dropped since they sacked Whitmarsh.

[HoHoHo]

stevesingo said:

HoHoHo said:

Sorry late to this thread so this may not be exciting news but I've just heard from a respected source (albeit through an employee of that source) Jenson won't be in the seat as he's not bringing in enough money to the pot

Alonso is bringing money and will probably drive alongside a McLaren test driver.

Apparently it appears it's not simply about hiring the best drivers anymore......shame.

If that is the case, McLaren needing pay drivers, then McLaren are no better than a midfield team such as FI or Sauber.

Ron Dennis needs shaking by the collar to realise his team is no more blue chip, and no multinational with $50m per year to spend on marketing will not touch them until he ceases to be part of the problem. The marketability has significantly dropped since they sacked Whitmarsh.

That may well be the case and we'll find out in a week or two I guess.

Unfortunately the sport is dominated by money and a team needs it to survive.

Many years ago I did a lot of work for Jordan and the launch of an vodka alco-pop called V10 (or something similar). When we met with senior management it was made clear to me that Jordan Racing was no more than a way to advertise and whilst in the public eye the the racing was secondary to the business of making money.

[lbc]

I just don't get the attraction of Button in F1.

He has never had any ambition to get anywhere.

Why did he not leave BAR, or Honda that had no hope of getting anywhere.

It was only luck that Brawn took over and Button fluked a championship as he had no competition from his team mate.

He just moans all the time, and has no drive in him.

I genuinely don't know why anyone likes him.

[MissChief]

lbc said:

I just don't get the attraction of Button in F1.

He has never had any ambition to get anywhere.

Why did he not leave BAR, or Honda that had no hope of getting anywhere.

It was only luck that Brawn took over and Button fluked a championship as he had no competition from his team mate.

He just moans all the time, and has no drive in him.

As opposed to Magnussen? Where was Kevin's drive? Left on the drive of his house by the sounds of it. Button has comprehensively outscored his team mate this season and also did so last season too. Button known what the comparative limits of the car are and manages to extract that. Also to say he had no competition from Barichello, Rubens did win races that season as well.

People say 'it was the car' but it's nearly always the car. The Red Bull for Vettel, Brawn, Byrne and Todt at Ferrari for Schumacher, the Mercedes for Hamilton. As Toto Woolf said, it's 90% car, but if you can't get that 10% from the driver you're nowhere. Jenson has given that 10%. Magnussen needs to find 5% somewhere.

[TheAngryDog]

REALIST123 said:

Why do these threads always seem to descend into the ridiculous?

Because PistonHeads..

[BritishRacinGrin]

Maybe Bernie wants Magnussen

[TheRealFingers99]

TheAngryDog said:

REALIST123 said:

Why do these threads always seem to descend into the ridiculous?

Because PistonHeads..

And because everyone wants to believe that the driver is so much more important than they really are (there are a few exceptions, but you can put them down to just a handful of drives).

On the Lauda/Hunt documentary someone says something like "imagine both McLaren drivers are killed in a motorway car crash. Do you think they'll be at the back of the grid at the next race? Of course not!"

Ron Dennis will make the most logical decision for the team, then justify it. He's not without sentiment, but you can't run a team on sentimentality.

[MissChief]

TheRealFingers99 said:

And because everyone wants to believe that the driver is so much more important than they really are (there are a few exceptions, but you can put them down to just a handful of drives).

On the Lauda/Hunt documentary someone says something like "imagine both McLaren drivers are killed in a motorway car crash. Do you think they'll be at the back of the grid at the next race? Of course not!"

Ron Dennis will make the most logical decision for the team, then justify it. He's not without sentiment, but you can't run a team on sentimentality.

But you can use the evidence presented before you which shows that Jenson comprehensively outclassed his teammate in the same equipment over the course of the season, and not by only a small amount either. And then did the same this year.

[Barchettaman]

Am I right in thinking that JB outscored LH on the aggregate of their three years together at McLaren?

[HoHoHo]

MissChief said:

TheRealFingers99 said:

And because everyone wants to believe that the driver is so much more important than they really are (there are a few exceptions, but you can put them down to just a handful of drives).

On the Lauda/Hunt documentary someone says something like "imagine both McLaren drivers are killed in a motorway car crash. Do you think they'll be at the back of the grid at the next race? Of course not!"

Ron Dennis will make the most logical decision for the team, then justify it. He's not without sentiment, but you can't run a team on sentimentality.

But you can use the evidence presented before you which shows that Jenson comprehensively outclassed his teammate in the same equipment over the course of the season, and not by only a small amount either. And then did the same this year.

It's not about how he performed.

It's about £££££££££££££'s into the team.

[Catatafish]

Barchettaman said:

Am I right in thinking that JB outscored LH on the aggregate of their three years together at McLaren?

yep, this is decent summary of their years together:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/hamilton-and...