Welcome back Jenson?

Welcome back Jenson?

Author
Discussion

SydneyBridge

8,500 posts

157 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
Catatafish said:
yep, this is decent summary of their years together:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/hamilton-and...
Pretty close then - 672 to 657 over 3 seasons

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
HoHoHo said:
MissChief said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
And because everyone wants to believe that the driver is so much more important than they really are (there are a few exceptions, but you can put them down to just a handful of drives).

On the Lauda/Hunt documentary someone says something like "imagine both McLaren drivers are killed in a motorway car crash. Do you think they'll be at the back of the grid at the next race? Of course not!"

Ron Dennis will make the most logical decision for the team, then justify it. He's not without sentiment, but you can't run a team on sentimentality.
But you can use the evidence presented before you which shows that Jenson comprehensively outclassed his teammate in the same equipment over the course of the season, and not by only a small amount either. And then did the same this year. smile
It's not about how he performed.

It's about £££££££££££££'s into the team.
It seems this is really difficult for some people to grasp.

LDM

372 posts

126 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
London424 said:
It seems this is really difficult for some people to grasp.
Pretty sad considering it is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport!



Edited by LDM on Friday 28th November 10:58

stevesingo

4,848 posts

221 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
TheRealFingers99 said:
And because everyone wants to believe that the driver is so much more important than they really are (there are a few exceptions, but you can put them down to just a handful of drives).

On the Lauda/Hunt documentary someone says something like "imagine both McLaren drivers are killed in a motorway car crash. Do you think they'll be at the back of the grid at the next race? Of course not!"

Ron Dennis will make the most logical decision for the team, then justify it. He's not without sentiment, but you can't run a team on sentimentality.
I suspect his justification will not include the fact tat his precious team is skink and unable to attract a significant sponsor.

More along the lines of "Securing the drivers that best deliver a secure future for McLaren"

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Why do these threads always seem to descend into the ridiculous?
There is nothing ridiculous about these threads. As long as you believe Hamilton and Alonso are driving gods and everyone else (except for Button) is st.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
LDM said:
London424 said:
It seems this is really difficult for some people to grasp.
Pretty sad considering it is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport!



Edited by LDM on Friday 28th November 10:58
To a point I agree. However, every team, in every sport, has a budget to work with. You spend it accordingly.

At this point in time McLaren can't afford (by the looks of things) to run a team with Alonso and Button. (By most people's estimates that would be $55 - $75 million per year on wages alone).

I don't blame McLaren for making the decision...they've just completely ballsed up the process.




toppstuff

13,698 posts

246 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
London424 said:
I don't blame McLaren for making the decision...they've just completely ballsed up the process.
Mclaren management are either passengers on a train where they actually have no control, or they are bungling fools who can't make decisions. One of these scenarios is surely true. Both are very bad.


London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
London424 said:
I don't blame McLaren for making the decision...they've just completely ballsed up the process.
Mclaren management are either passengers on a train where they actually have no control, or they are bungling fools who can't make decisions. One of these scenarios is surely true. Both are very bad.
Personally I think they are scrambling for money.

They had to wait until the end of the season to see how much they would bring in in prize money. Now they are seeing if they can get additional funding (sponsors etc) to afford an Alonso and Button combo while losing the KMag money.

Matt_N

8,900 posts

201 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
London424 said:
HoHoHo said:
MissChief said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
And because everyone wants to believe that the driver is so much more important than they really are (there are a few exceptions, but you can put them down to just a handful of drives).

On the Lauda/Hunt documentary someone says something like "imagine both McLaren drivers are killed in a motorway car crash. Do you think they'll be at the back of the grid at the next race? Of course not!"

Ron Dennis will make the most logical decision for the team, then justify it. He's not without sentiment, but you can't run a team on sentimentality.
But you can use the evidence presented before you which shows that Jenson comprehensively outclassed his teammate in the same equipment over the course of the season, and not by only a small amount either. And then did the same this year. smile
It's not about how he performed.

It's about £££££££££££££'s into the team.
It seems this is really difficult for some people to grasp.
Granted. But.

KMAG's sponsor deal is worth around 30M to McLaren.

I have no idea what JB brings.

McLaren are set to bag around 90M this year due to their standing in the constructors.

JB has more than doubled KMAG's points haul this season, therefore he has pulled in around 60M worth of that prize money, meaning on the balance of it they have brought around the same worth to the team this season.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

246 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
London424 said:
toppstuff said:
London424 said:
I don't blame McLaren for making the decision...they've just completely ballsed up the process.
Mclaren management are either passengers on a train where they actually have no control, or they are bungling fools who can't make decisions. One of these scenarios is surely true. Both are very bad.
Personally I think they are scrambling for money.

They had to wait until the end of the season to see how much they would bring in in prize money. Now they are seeing if they can get additional funding (sponsors etc) to afford an Alonso and Button combo while losing the KMag money.
This is a logical explanation. Paradoxically, this situation makes them less attractive to sponsors, which turn talks their value down and makes sponsors less likely to throw the big bucks at them. They are in a tailspin.

If I were a current sponsor I would find this situation very unsatisfactory. If I was a potential new sponsor, this would make me play hardball over the rate and the terms - although if it were me I would probably take my money elsewhere to somewhere like Williams where there is more value on offer and a much nicer team image.

Ron has a big problem IMO.

Sonic

4,007 posts

206 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
^ yes

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
London424 said:
toppstuff said:
London424 said:
I don't blame McLaren for making the decision...they've just completely ballsed up the process.
Mclaren management are either passengers on a train where they actually have no control, or they are bungling fools who can't make decisions. One of these scenarios is surely true. Both are very bad.
Personally I think they are scrambling for money.

They had to wait until the end of the season to see how much they would bring in in prize money. Now they are seeing if they can get additional funding (sponsors etc) to afford an Alonso and Button combo while losing the KMag money.
This is a logical explanation. Paradoxically, this situation makes them less attractive to sponsors, which turn talks their value down and makes sponsors less likely to throw the big bucks at them. They are in a tailspin.

If I were a current sponsor I would find this situation very unsatisfactory. If I was a potential new sponsor, this would make me play hardball over the rate and the terms - although if it were me I would probably take my money elsewhere to somewhere like Williams where there is more value on offer and a much nicer team image.

Ron has a big problem IMO.
I agree.

Ron still thinks they are worth the 2008 title wining money.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
Matt_N said:
London424 said:
HoHoHo said:
MissChief said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
And because everyone wants to believe that the driver is so much more important than they really are (there are a few exceptions, but you can put them down to just a handful of drives).

On the Lauda/Hunt documentary someone says something like "imagine both McLaren drivers are killed in a motorway car crash. Do you think they'll be at the back of the grid at the next race? Of course not!"

Ron Dennis will make the most logical decision for the team, then justify it. He's not without sentiment, but you can't run a team on sentimentality.
But you can use the evidence presented before you which shows that Jenson comprehensively outclassed his teammate in the same equipment over the course of the season, and not by only a small amount either. And then did the same this year. smile
It's not about how he performed.

It's about £££££££££££££'s into the team.
It seems this is really difficult for some people to grasp.
Granted. But.

KMAG's sponsor deal is worth around 30M to McLaren.

I have no idea what JB brings.

McLaren are set to bag around 90M this year due to their standing in the constructors.

JB has more than doubled KMAG's points haul this season, therefore he has pulled in around 60M worth of that prize money, meaning on the balance of it they have brought around the same worth to the team this season.
I admire man maths as much as the next man but I think you're miles off.

KMAG brings 30 mil.

JB from what I've seen brings nothing and costs money. (20mil USD I've seen but not sure on that).

If you took JB's points away entirely and only had KMAGs points McLaren would have only finished 1 place lower in the constructors championship.

That difference is only worth $3.5 million (based on the 2013 money).

Whichever way you look at it (from a money point of view) losing KMAG to keep JB needs a lot of money from somewhere.

braddo

10,399 posts

187 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
London424 said:
KMAG brings 30 mil.
Apologies if it has already been mentioned but who are the sponsors he brings?

Flanders.

6,365 posts

207 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
braddo said:
Apologies if it has already been mentioned but who are the sponsors he brings?
ASOS I think, he does a lot of work with Jack Jones who are owned by ASOS.

LDM

372 posts

126 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
London424 said:
Matt_N said:
London424 said:
HoHoHo said:
MissChief said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
And because everyone wants to believe that the driver is so much more important than they really are (there are a few exceptions, but you can put them down to just a handful of drives).

On the Lauda/Hunt documentary someone says something like "imagine both McLaren drivers are killed in a motorway car crash. Do you think they'll be at the back of the grid at the next race? Of course not!"

Ron Dennis will make the most logical decision for the team, then justify it. He's not without sentiment, but you can't run a team on sentimentality.
But you can use the evidence presented before you which shows that Jenson comprehensively outclassed his teammate in the same equipment over the course of the season, and not by only a small amount either. And then did the same this year. smile
It's not about how he performed.

It's about £££££££££££££'s into the team.
It seems this is really difficult for some people to grasp.
Granted. But.

KMAG's sponsor deal is worth around 30M to McLaren.

I have no idea what JB brings.

McLaren are set to bag around 90M this year due to their standing in the constructors.

JB has more than doubled KMAG's points haul this season, therefore he has pulled in around 60M worth of that prize money, meaning on the balance of it they have brought around the same worth to the team this season.
I admire man maths as much as the next man but I think you're miles off.

KMAG brings 30 mil.

JB from what I've seen brings nothing and costs money. (20mil USD I've seen but not sure on that).

If you took JB's points away entirely and only had KMAGs points McLaren would have only finished 1 place lower in the constructors championship.

That difference is only worth $3.5 million (based on the 2013 money).

Whichever way you look at it (from a money point of view) losing KMAG to keep JB needs a lot of money from somewhere.
All true which also makes you wonder what value they are putting on the extra points FA may get instead of KM or JB? I could understand the situation a bit more if they had a sound car etc and were just looking for that extra something so they could win a championship but instead it seems they have decided FA is the answer even though it is not clear if they will be able to provide a winning engine / chassis / package yet.

If it doesn't come together as quickly as they hope and there was an opening at a further improved Williams would FA remain loyal?

lucky b

352 posts

201 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
Flanders. said:
braddo said:
Apologies if it has already been mentioned but who are the sponsors he brings?
ASOS I think, he does a lot of work with Jack Jones who are owned by ASOS.
If I was a sponsor of K Mag, this would make me wonder if I was getting enough effective exposure from my spend.

blueg33

35,586 posts

223 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
Back in the day, it was the teams who were sponsored more than the drivers, now it seems to be the drivers as much as the teams.

For the pinnacle of any sport it seems wrong that the elite sportsmen lose out to lesser ones purey because of sponsoership.

Having said that, I wouldn't sponsor Mclaren because their management is a right shower, but I would sponsor Button as he has a good image and is a good amassador for the sport and for the British.

Sadly my advertisng budget this year doesnt run to enough to sponsor any form of motorsport

Agent Orange

2,194 posts

245 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
lucky b said:
Flanders. said:
braddo said:
Apologies if it has already been mentioned but who are the sponsors he brings?
ASOS I think, he does a lot of work with Jack Jones who are owned by ASOS.
If I was a sponsor of K Mag, this would make me wonder if I was getting enough effective exposure from my spend.
Have a look at a post of mine in this thread on November 22nd. Summarises most of it there.

Or google Anders Holch Povlsen, Bestseller, ASOS, Dorte Riis Madsen

Or read
http://www.business.dk/navne/bestseller-boss-skoed...

Would Anders Holch Povlsen think he's getting effective exposure for his spend? It's possible brand exposure is secondary to the exposure of having a Dane, and therefore Denmark, on the grid. Not forgetting the association of having himself as part of the F1 circus.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Friday 28th November 2014
quotequote all
LDM said:
London424 said:
Matt_N said:
London424 said:
HoHoHo said:
MissChief said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
And because everyone wants to believe that the driver is so much more important than they really are (there are a few exceptions, but you can put them down to just a handful of drives).

On the Lauda/Hunt documentary someone says something like "imagine both McLaren drivers are killed in a motorway car crash. Do you think they'll be at the back of the grid at the next race? Of course not!"

Ron Dennis will make the most logical decision for the team, then justify it. He's not without sentiment, but you can't run a team on sentimentality.
But you can use the evidence presented before you which shows that Jenson comprehensively outclassed his teammate in the same equipment over the course of the season, and not by only a small amount either. And then did the same this year. smile
It's not about how he performed.

It's about £££££££££££££'s into the team.
It seems this is really difficult for some people to grasp.
Granted. But.

KMAG's sponsor deal is worth around 30M to McLaren.

I have no idea what JB brings.

McLaren are set to bag around 90M this year due to their standing in the constructors.

JB has more than doubled KMAG's points haul this season, therefore he has pulled in around 60M worth of that prize money, meaning on the balance of it they have brought around the same worth to the team this season.
I admire man maths as much as the next man but I think you're miles off.

KMAG brings 30 mil.

JB from what I've seen brings nothing and costs money. (20mil USD I've seen but not sure on that).

If you took JB's points away entirely and only had KMAGs points McLaren would have only finished 1 place lower in the constructors championship.

That difference is only worth $3.5 million (based on the 2013 money).

Whichever way you look at it (from a money point of view) losing KMAG to keep JB needs a lot of money from somewhere.
All true which also makes you wonder what value they are putting on the extra points FA may get instead of KM or JB? I could understand the situation a bit more if they had a sound car etc and were just looking for that extra something so they could win a championship but instead it seems they have decided FA is the answer even though it is not clear if they will be able to provide a winning engine / chassis / package yet.

If it doesn't come together as quickly as they hope and there was an opening at a further improved Williams would FA remain loyal?
I'm not sure that the hiring Alonso is about the extra points. I think it's the name.

Honda coming back into the sport wanted one of the big name drivers to be driving the car (which by all accounts was either Ham, Vet or Alonso).

By bringing Alonso in and having Honda power makes them "marketable" (is my assumption).