Welcome back Jenson?

[hairyben]

dr_gn said:

LivingTheDream said:

dr_gn said:

No, but so what?

How is the "hate" going to manifest itself in any significant way to McLaren, once the Buttonless team lines up next year?

Are people going to close their eyes every time a McLaren appears in a TV shot?

Of course not but if they are turning off their fans - which is the impression I get, then less fans means less merchandising and will lead to less sponsor interest - surely!

I doubt that very much. If he goes, Button will be long forgotten by March next year - and I also doubt very much anyone will be heard next year saying "imagine what Button could have done with that car..."

McLaren aren't going to turn the corner simply by having a 'nice' driver.

That doesn't make it okay for them to treat him like some 4th choice bh kept dangling on a string in case their better options don't come through, which whether right or wrong is what most people are reading from this. he's a driver who merits a little better.

As for memories... despite what I said above I still haven't forgotten williams treated damon pretty badly.

[dr_gn]

hairyben said:

dr_gn said:

LivingTheDream said:

dr_gn said:

No, but so what?

How is the "hate" going to manifest itself in any significant way to McLaren, once the Buttonless team lines up next year?

Are people going to close their eyes every time a McLaren appears in a TV shot?

Of course not but if they are turning off their fans - which is the impression I get, then less fans means less merchandising and will lead to less sponsor interest - surely!

I doubt that very much. If he goes, Button will be long forgotten by March next year - and I also doubt very much anyone will be heard next year saying "imagine what Button could have done with that car..."

McLaren aren't going to turn the corner simply by having a 'nice' driver.

That doesn't make it okay for them to treat him like some 4th choice bh kept dangling on a string in case their better options don't come through, which whether right or wrong is what most people are reading from this. he's a driver who merits a little better.

As for memories... despite what I said above I still haven't forgotten williams treated damon pretty badly.

If a driver simply isn't good enough to be in demand, then the team holds all the cards. Button has to accept that, or make his own decision: In may ways Button is as 'bad' as McLaren in this respect. If he really feels he's worth a drive, then resign and go to another team. Why would McLaren be forced into a decision by someone who has little negotiating power?

[Vocal Minority]

f1_dragon said:

Vocal Minority said:

People do that on Twitter. All the time. About everything.

They will forget by half way through testing next season

Yes they do, and any company that cares about it's image normally do whatever they need to do address the concerns ASAP vs. complaining through non-social media channels.

But does that include pandering, or even responding, to every little paddy the fan base/customer base has? No, it doesn't.

The best companies know what they have to respond to, and what they can ride out. McLaren seem to think they can ride this one out. And I think they are right.

[DKL]

Its time Jensen walked and either forced Mclaren's hand or told them to politely FO.
It rather depends on what he wants to do next year and what offers have been suggested.
I rather doubt there is another F1 drive at a competitive team out there for him otherwise he'd have jumped already surely.

[benters]

For the sake of discussion lets consider the other side.

Your running McLaren, your recent years have not been your best, you feel the need to change some long standing and experienced personel. so you do, goodbye Lowe, goodbye Whitmarsh and others. Your most experienced driver is coming to the end of his contract with you, and yours with him, and whilst you may want some ongoing stability how do you keep him motivated when your season is already over and has been for a while. So what do you do. . .

McLaren need to change something or lots of things, and the selection of new blood driving the car surely needs to be considered too.

If it is so that your new engine partner or any of the big sponsors that may come on board are also part of that decision process as to who will drive then your hands are to some degree tied already. Throw into the mix that there has at least been talk of a three car set up then i can understand why McLaren cannot yet make a decision.

There is a suggestion in a lot of the postings that McLaren are guilty of keeping JB & K Mag dangling on a string, and i can see why it looks that way, but commercially i doubt they could have handled things very differently and at the same time remained fair to both drivers as well as keep them motivated in equal measure.

I agree that Jenson is popular for all the reasons described, but F1 drivers know the game there are in from the get go. Being a nice bloke doesn't get you a seat, being a winner makes somewhat more of a difference. After all its winning that would have got them noticed before they got into F1 and so on occasions it appears to be the yardstick for ongoing employment.

Is it 100% known that he hasn't been offered a drive ? or is it more likely he hasn't been offered the contract terms he wants ? personally i reckon its closer to the latter and if that is closer to the truth then McLaren in my mind are correct to keep him waiting to see how badly he wants to stay.

[red_slr]

I personally think everyone is waiting to see what Lewis does.

At the moment its a fairly simple deal in that FA moves to McLaren and SV moves to Ferrari.
We already know DK is taking SVs seat.

So, other than contractual issues, there is another issue which is delaying things and that, IMHO is Lewis.
He is the only driver that could make a difference to any of this.

It looks like he will stay, in fact its 99% sure he will - but that slight doubt means they will all have to wait.
I am pretty sure Lewis could walk back into the MTC tomorrow if he wanted and that draw of the Honda tie up is going to be bigger than we think..

[allergictocheese]

If I were Jenson Button I'd be pretty torn right now.

On one hand I'd want to secure next season's drive and waiting another month or so for McLaren might be incompatible with that. Even if you do wait, you might not get the drive. On the other hand, McLaren have hired one of the best aerodynamic brains in F1, have a huge investment from Honda and sole access to an engine that might help propel the team towards the front of the grid.

Would you stick or twist?

[f1_dragon]

dr_gn said:

f1_dragon said:

dr_gn said:

LivingTheDream said:

dr_gn said:

onyx39 said:

evenflow said:

Shocking if it's Jenson's final race and he doesn't get a proper send off.

Bearing in mind the PR disaster that this becoming for McLaren, would they really allow that to happen, or perhaps this means he's not going anywhere?

I'm pretty sure you'll find that apart from on a few forums, not may people really gives a toss whether he stays or goes.

Have you seen the world of hate McLaren have had on Twitter following that announcement?

No, but so what?

How is the "hate" going to manifest itself in any significant way to McLaren, once the Buttonless team lines up next year?

Are people going to close their eyes every time a McLaren appears in a TV shot?

What sponsor wants to pay top $ to a team trading on past successes and publicy being seen to be of dubious 'character'?

In a given year, isn't that pretty much every F1 team apart form the current Championship contenders (i.e in this case Mercedes)?

Yeh, to an extent I'd agree. But it is the top $ rate card and (publically visible) questionable behaviour combination that I think makes this case different.

[dr_gn]

f1_dragon said:

dr_gn said:

f1_dragon said:

dr_gn said:

LivingTheDream said:

dr_gn said:

onyx39 said:

evenflow said:

Shocking if it's Jenson's final race and he doesn't get a proper send off.

Bearing in mind the PR disaster that this becoming for McLaren, would they really allow that to happen, or perhaps this means he's not going anywhere?

I'm pretty sure you'll find that apart from on a few forums, not may people really gives a toss whether he stays or goes.

Have you seen the world of hate McLaren have had on Twitter following that announcement?

No, but so what?

How is the "hate" going to manifest itself in any significant way to McLaren, once the Buttonless team lines up next year?

Are people going to close their eyes every time a McLaren appears in a TV shot?

What sponsor wants to pay top $ to a team trading on past successes and publicy being seen to be of dubious 'character'?

In a given year, isn't that pretty much every F1 team apart form the current Championship contenders (i.e in this case Mercedes)?

Yeh, to an extent I'd agree. But it is the top $ rate card and (publically visible) questionable behaviour combination that I think makes this case different.

I'd guess the vast majorty of the public don't know or care about the contract negotiation details of a #2 driver, even more so outside the UK.

[f1_dragon]

Vocal Minority said:

f1_dragon said:

Vocal Minority said:

People do that on Twitter. All the time. About everything.

They will forget by half way through testing next season

Yes they do, and any company that cares about it's image normally do whatever they need to do address the concerns ASAP vs. complaining through non-social media channels.

But does that include pandering, or even responding, to every little paddy the fan base/customer base has? No, it doesn't.

The best companies know what they have to respond to, and what they can ride out. McLaren seem to think they can ride this one out. And I think they are right.

Whilst I agree they're not exactly going to go out of business by riding it out, I do think their wallet will be negatively affected by the way they have handled this.

There are obviously people smarter than me who have decided they don't need to, but then this company of smart people have made a lot decisions that time has shown to be poor over the last few years.

By alienating their fan base and potentially repelling sponsors they are compromising their budget and therefore success on track.

Maybe that explains the P1 GTR and why I'm being constantly spammed by money off McLaren merchandise offers these days.

[f1_dragon]

dr_gn said:

f1_dragon said:

dr_gn said:

f1_dragon said:

dr_gn said:

LivingTheDream said:

dr_gn said:

onyx39 said:

evenflow said:

Shocking if it's Jenson's final race and he doesn't get a proper send off.

Bearing in mind the PR disaster that this becoming for McLaren, would they really allow that to happen, or perhaps this means he's not going anywhere?

I'm pretty sure you'll find that apart from on a few forums, not may people really gives a toss whether he stays or goes.

Have you seen the world of hate McLaren have had on Twitter following that announcement?

No, but so what?

How is the "hate" going to manifest itself in any significant way to McLaren, once the Buttonless team lines up next year?

Are people going to close their eyes every time a McLaren appears in a TV shot?

What sponsor wants to pay top $ to a team trading on past successes and publicy being seen to be of dubious 'character'?

In a given year, isn't that pretty much every F1 team apart form the current Championship contenders (i.e in this case Mercedes)?

Yeh, to an extent I'd agree. But it is the top $ rate card and (publically visible) questionable behaviour combination that I think makes this case different.

I'd guess the vast majorty of the public don't know or care about the contract negotiation details of a #2 driver, even more so outside the UK.

Quite possibly, but the fact they felt they needed to report they will not be making a decision until at least December 1st that, was broadcast on mainstream media, perhaps shows that they at least think the wider public does care?

Also, I'm not JB's biggest fan by any means, but he is an F1 World Champion, DD or not, that deserves respect IMHO.

[NewMetalSystem]

red_slr said:

I personally think everyone is waiting to see what Lewis does.

At the moment its a fairly simple deal in that FA moves to McLaren and SV moves to Ferrari.
We already know DK is taking SVs seat.

So, other than contractual issues, there is another issue which is delaying things and that, IMHO is Lewis.
He is the only driver that could make a difference to any of this.

It looks like he will stay, in fact its 99% sure he will - but that slight doubt means they will all have to wait.
I am pretty sure Lewis could walk back into the MTC tomorrow if he wanted and that draw of the Honda tie up is going to be bigger than we think..

Ron, Lewis and Fernando at McLaren? What could possibly go wrong...

[EskimoArapaho]

red_slr said:

I personally think everyone is waiting to see what Lewis does.

I think there's something in this. For sure, right now, Mercedes must be desperate to get LH to commit beyond next season. Woolf/Lauda/etc - they all want him there, because he can deliver.

The last thing anyone at Mercedes wants is for the Mc-Honda to be good enough next year and for LH to be easily tempted back to McLaren.

[JB!]

If Rosberg wins the WDC due to another LH mechainical failure, could Lewis throw his toys out of the pram and look for a MCL deal???

[007 VXR]

JB! said:

If Rosberg wins the WDC due to another LH mechainical failure, could Lewis throw his toys out of the pram and look for a MCL deal???

Mmmmmmmm

[marshall100]

allergictocheese said:

If I were Jenson Button I'd be pretty torn right now.

On one hand I'd want to secure next season's drive and waiting another month or so for McLaren might be incompatible with that. Even if you do wait, you might not get the drive. On the other hand, McLaren have hired one of the best aerodynamic brains in F1, have a huge investment from Honda and sole access to an engine that might help propel the team towards the front of the grid.

Would you stick or twist?

I'd take the best deal going at WEC and let the world know about it on sunday evening. He has nothing to lose. The mclaren would have to be bang on the money out of the box, and if Fred has signed he'll get piss poor treatment for no.1 status in the team. What are they going to offer? a 12 month contract at best.

[Vocal Minority]

f1_dragon said:

Whilst I agree they're not exactly going to go out of business by riding it out, I do think their wallet will be negatively affected by the way they have handled this.

There are obviously people smarter than me who have decided they don't need to, but then this company of smart people have made a lot decisions that time has shown to be poor over the last few years.

By alienating their fan base and potentially repelling sponsors they are compromising their budget and therefore success on track.

I think you are over-rating the profoundness of the effect on sponsors. They are as aware of how fickle people are just as much as McLaren.

Ultimately I think potential sponsors would see this as a bump in the road, and will be much more swayed by the potential for on track success with FA. It will all be forgotten in reasonably short order - especially as they will be privy to WAY more information than us (baring in mind most of the preceding however many pages is mostly guessing)

Where it may backfire is if, for some reason, they end up announcing JB and KM as their drivers. Then they will look very silly indeed. But that will blow over too.

[carinaman]

007 VXR said:

JB! said:

If Rosberg wins the WDC due to another LH mechainical failure, could Lewis throw his toys out of the pram and look for a MCL deal???

Mmmmmmmm

Would Honda want Lewis Hamilton?

Would Honda pay his wages at McLaren like Mercedes did?

Could Lewis win the WDC with Mercedes and return to McLaren anyway?

Hasn't Lewis's contract with XIX recently expired?

[Sir_Dave]

Vocal Minority said:

Latest rumour on Daily sports car is that Audi are emerging as a WEC dark horse. Especially with Tom Kristensen expected to announce retirement tomorrow.

Now confirmed, Kristensen retiring at the end of the season

[hairyben]

marshall100 said:

allergictocheese said:

If I were Jenson Button I'd be pretty torn right now.

On one hand I'd want to secure next season's drive and waiting another month or so for McLaren might be incompatible with that. Even if you do wait, you might not get the drive. On the other hand, McLaren have hired one of the best aerodynamic brains in F1, have a huge investment from Honda and sole access to an engine that might help propel the team towards the front of the grid.

Would you stick or twist?

I'd take the best deal going at WEC and let the world know about it on sunday evening. He has nothing to lose. The mclaren would have to be bang on the money out of the box, and if Fred has signed he'll get piss poor treatment for no.1 status in the team. What are they going to offer? a 12 month contract at best.

He's probably best off quitting F1 rather then being seen to do a barichello. Way I see it he's hanging in there in case talks between mclaren and their desired drivers break down, but if the cars good mclaren will use it as leverage to attract the drivers they fancy these days for 2016 so button will still be out the door anyway.