Welcome back Jenson?
Discussion
stevesingo said:
No I did not, you knob.
The same laws of physics do apply to Raikkonen and Massa, unfortunately, until lately, the Alonso led team politics have not given Raikkonen and Massa a fair chance of exploiting the laws of physics.
The same type of team politics that protected Vettel against Webber and Ricciardo? Unfortunately that protection loses it's power when the other driver turns out to be faster, as Ricciardo has shown this season. Top F1 teams will always favour the faster driver, if Massa or Raikkonen had been faster than Alonso they would have had the teams backing.The same laws of physics do apply to Raikkonen and Massa, unfortunately, until lately, the Alonso led team politics have not given Raikkonen and Massa a fair chance of exploiting the laws of physics.
stevesingo said:
dr_gn said:
You've proved my point: The same laws of physics also apply to Raikkonen and Massa.
No I did not, you knob.The same laws of physics do apply to Raikkonen and Massa, unfortunately, until lately, the Alonso led team politics have not given Raikkonen and Massa a fair chance of exploiting the laws of physics.
The team politics thing is a load of cobblers: The proven faster driver will always have the negotiating power, and why shouldn't they? Alons has, I think, beaten every team mate he's had in 14 years of F1, and I see no real evidence to suggest he wouldn't demolish Button.
dr_gn said:
I'm afraid you did, and you've just outlined how you did it in your second paragraph.
The team politics thing is a load of cobblers: The proven faster driver will always have the negotiating power, and why shouldn't they? Alons has, I think, beaten every team mate he's had in 14 years of F1, and I see no real evidence to suggest he wouldn't demolish Button.
Like everyone said Lewis would? Oh, wait....The team politics thing is a load of cobblers: The proven faster driver will always have the negotiating power, and why shouldn't they? Alons has, I think, beaten every team mate he's had in 14 years of F1, and I see no real evidence to suggest he wouldn't demolish Button.
MissChief said:
dr_gn said:
I'm afraid you did, and you've just outlined how you did it in your second paragraph.
The team politics thing is a load of cobblers: The proven faster driver will always have the negotiating power, and why shouldn't they? Alons has, I think, beaten every team mate he's had in 14 years of F1, and I see no real evidence to suggest he wouldn't demolish Button.
Like everyone said Lewis would? Oh, wait....The team politics thing is a load of cobblers: The proven faster driver will always have the negotiating power, and why shouldn't they? Alons has, I think, beaten every team mate he's had in 14 years of F1, and I see no real evidence to suggest he wouldn't demolish Button.
dr_gn said:
DanielSan said:
MissChief said:
Like everyone said Lewis would? Oh, wait....
And Fred was going to destroy Lewis the rookie...If Alonso wanted equal #1 status at McL then he should have made that clear from the start. But that's not what happened: he got equal status and he failed to dominate his team mate.
The latter is now a much better driver. He has made an excellent choice in which team to drive for.
I'm not sure Alonso has improved to the same degree. And as for choices . . .
dr_gn said:
I'm afraid you did, and you've just outlined how you did it in your second paragraph.
The team politics thing is a load of cobblers: The proven faster driver will always have the negotiating power, and why shouldn't they? Alons has, I think, beaten every team mate he's had in 14 years of F1, and I see no real evidence to suggest he wouldn't demolish Button.
Quoted for posterity.The team politics thing is a load of cobblers: The proven faster driver will always have the negotiating power, and why shouldn't they? Alons has, I think, beaten every team mate he's had in 14 years of F1, and I see no real evidence to suggest he wouldn't demolish Button.
marshall100 said:
Agent Orange said:
Already started looking at race dates for WEC 2015 
Where does one find tickets to the round at Silverstone next year? What I had found was only £29 for the whole weekend! which I find somewhat hard to fathom.Derek Smith said:
So Alonso the great managed to 'match' Hamilton in the latter's rookie year in the sport. That's not a tremendous example of superiority.
Well, there are 13 other seasons which make a good case for his superiority over team mates, and an additional championship over Hamilton specifically.Derek Smith said:
If Alonso wanted equal #1 status at McL then he should have made that clear from the start. But that's not what happened: he got equal status and he failed to dominate his team mate.
He almost certainly didn't have equal status in the latter part of the year. Quite the opposite I'd guess, and yet still matched Hamilton, which was the point I made. Add the fact that Hamilton probably had as much if not more preparation as Alonso in his first year at McLaren, and add the fact that Hamilton isn't exactly slow, and I don't think anyone would consider the 2007 season to be a humiliation for Alonso.Derek Smith said:
The latter is now a much better driver. He has made an excellent choice in which team to drive for.
I could use the "but Button beat him" line here (not that I ever thought it a relevant point) coupled with the fact that in the recent past, anyone not in a Red Bull could be accused of not making a good team choice. Luck and team politics play just as important role as pragmatic choice in terms of which team a driver ends up with.Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure Alonso has improved to the same degree. And as for choices . . .
Alonso was already an experienced F1 driver and double world champion before Hamilton even started his F1 career, so if you're correct, it's hardly surprising that Alonso is nearer his peak than Hamilton is it not?dr_gn said:
Derek Smith said:
So Alonso the great managed to 'match' Hamilton in the latter's rookie year in the sport. That's not a tremendous example of superiority.
Well, there are 13 other seasons which make a good case for his superiority over team mates, and an additional championship over Hamilton specifically.MissChief said:
dr_gn said:
Derek Smith said:
So Alonso the great managed to 'match' Hamilton in the latter's rookie year in the sport. That's not a tremendous example of superiority.
Well, there are 13 other seasons which make a good case for his superiority over team mates, and an additional championship over Hamilton specifically.
k Mclaren, and f
Gaz. said:
dr_gn said:
He almost certainly didn't have equal status in the latter part of the year. Quite the opposite I'd guess, and yet still matched Hamilton, which was the point I made. Add the fact that Hamilton probably had as much if not more preparation as Alonso in his first year at McLaren, and add the fact that Hamilton isn't exactly slow, and I don't think anyone would consider the 2007 season to be a humiliation for Alonso.
You're kidding aren't you? Gaz. said:
dr_gn said:
You honestly think that Alonso and Dennis not being on speaking terms from Hungary '07 onwards had absolutely no effect on the team or the mindset (positive/negative) of the drivers?
Mclaren even installed mediator in their garage from the Spanish motorsport association to show they were treating the drivers equally in Brazil and Alonso was quite prepared to sing like a canary too, only the aforementioned Shanghai tantrum was of anything of note and said that everything had been above board in Brazil. It's always a shame to see a clearly talented driver forced out of the sport, especially when they still have a lot left in them to give. However, very few talented drivers are lucky enough get into F1 in the first place, and a vanishingly miniscule proportion of those end up enjoying a fifteen year career in it.
There are a lot of people talking about it as if it’d be some kind of massive injustice for Jenson to find himself without an F1 drive… Personally I find it hard to pity a man of his success and potential and don’t doubt for a second that there are a multitude of other things he’d like to do before his physical and mental sharpness deteriorate. He has done a life sentence of hard graft with the constant demands and rigors of F1 and although he might not believe it himself yet, could probably do with a change of pace.
The grid is shrinking and drivers are going to be lost, many of them kicking and screaming. Jenson has the luxury to choose not to go ‘backwards’.
I for one am looking forward to Alonso vs Ron round two, and lots of other things about F1 2015 besides- including seeing what Magnussen is made of (if that’s the way it transpires).
I’m teetering on the edge of getting Twitter and if I do, JB will be one of the first people I follow. I bet he’ll get up to some interesting stuff and I can 100% imagine him turning up in a commentary box some time after his 40th birthday which I think will be brilliant, even though he still sounds like he needs to have a big cough.
I also never want to hear him sing “We are the champions” again.
There are a lot of people talking about it as if it’d be some kind of massive injustice for Jenson to find himself without an F1 drive… Personally I find it hard to pity a man of his success and potential and don’t doubt for a second that there are a multitude of other things he’d like to do before his physical and mental sharpness deteriorate. He has done a life sentence of hard graft with the constant demands and rigors of F1 and although he might not believe it himself yet, could probably do with a change of pace.
The grid is shrinking and drivers are going to be lost, many of them kicking and screaming. Jenson has the luxury to choose not to go ‘backwards’.
I for one am looking forward to Alonso vs Ron round two, and lots of other things about F1 2015 besides- including seeing what Magnussen is made of (if that’s the way it transpires).
I’m teetering on the edge of getting Twitter and if I do, JB will be one of the first people I follow. I bet he’ll get up to some interesting stuff and I can 100% imagine him turning up in a commentary box some time after his 40th birthday which I think will be brilliant, even though he still sounds like he needs to have a big cough.
I also never want to hear him sing “We are the champions” again.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff