Welcome back Jenson?

Welcome back Jenson?

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Discussion

RobGT81

5,229 posts

187 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
BritishRacinGrin said:
It's always a shame to see a clearly talented driver forced out of the sport
You realise that there is other forms of racing outside of F1?

If he can get over his fear of multiclass racing and F1 snobbery, he will make a great sports car driver.

RGambo

850 posts

170 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
BritishRacinGrin said:
even though he still sounds like he needs to have a big cough.

I also never want to hear him sing “We are the champions” again.
smilesmile

egor110

16,899 posts

204 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
BritishRacinGrin said:
It's always a shame to see a clearly talented driver forced out of the sport
You realise that there is other forms of racing outside of F1?

If he can get over his fear of multiclass racing and F1 snobbery, he will make a great sports car driver.
Fear of endurance racing?

I think webbers had some decent talks with button, he can still get his racing kick but get my time off with his family.

stevesingo

4,858 posts

223 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
dr_gn said:
None of which really has anything to do with the mindset of the drivers: The fact they needed a mediator just goes to show how badly things must have deteriorated. It was probably more for the benefit of the team to somehow 'prove' they were being fair.
Why was a mediator required in the first place?

Oh yeah, for the first time since Minardi Alonso was in a team where his manager (who has something to gain if FA's reputation in enhanced) was not the team principal. What Alonso's perception of equal treatment (I would suggest) was somewhat far from the reality of equal. LH was no angel in this and prompted the Hungary qualifying pit box toy throwing. From that point on Alonso took it upon himself to destroy his employee/employer relationship by making accusations of bias and eventually attempting to blackmail his boss. All because he had equal status.

dr_gn

16,170 posts

185 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
stevesingo said:
dr_gn said:
None of which really has anything to do with the mindset of the drivers: The fact they needed a mediator just goes to show how badly things must have deteriorated. It was probably more for the benefit of the team to somehow 'prove' they were being fair.
Why was a mediator required in the first place?

Oh yeah, for the first time since Minardi Alonso was in a team where his manager (who has something to gain if FA's reputation in enhanced) was not the team principal. What Alonso's perception of equal treatment (I would suggest) was somewhat far from the reality of equal. LH was no angel in this and prompted the Hungary qualifying pit box toy throwing. From that point on Alonso took it upon himself to destroy his employee/employer relationship by making accusations of bias and eventually attempting to blackmail his boss. All because he had equal status.
I'd say that kind of behaviour, whether in public view or behind the scenes, has been an inherent part of how many good drivers have become multiple champions throughout the history of the sport.

Nothing to see here.

RobGT81

5,229 posts

187 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
egor110 said:
Fear of endurance racing?

I think webbers had some decent talks with button, he can still get his racing kick but get my time off with his family.
Button said he wouldn't race at Le Mans while its mixed class because of the speed differential.

Ok, he probably isn't scared and he has changed his tune about racing at Le Mans over the last 6 months, probably thanks to Webber as you say.

stevesingo

4,858 posts

223 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
dr_gn said:
Nothing to see here.
Or just not prepared to look in case it shatters you delusion?

toppstuff

13,698 posts

248 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
Isn't the big issue here not about JB or KM and who they choose, but the simple fact that McLaren have shown themselves to be weak and not in control of their own destiny?

No driver should ever be bigger than the team.

The team must have the confidence and the courage to choose who will drive on THEIR terms. Being effectively dictated to by Alonso and Ferrari is a pathetic state of affairs. It sends a really bad message to sponsors and tarnishes the McLaren image.

McLaren should be the ones in charge. They should have chosen their driver line up months ago, rather than end up on dangling on a hook like this.

Mclaren look bungling and weak, without any control of the situation. McLaren need stability and the ability to plan ahead - they have a development programme with a new engine to deliver. This uncertainty is bad for everyone. It also makes McLaren look like clowns.

No driver is worth destroying your reputational capital over - not even Fred Alonso.

McLaren should have told Alonso to either join them two months ago or f***k off.

If I were a sponsor I would be massively unimpressed.

egor110

16,899 posts

204 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
egor110 said:
Fear of endurance racing?

I think webbers had some decent talks with button, he can still get his racing kick but get my time off with his family.
Button said he wouldn't race at Le Mans while its mixed class because of the speed differential.

Ok, he probably isn't scared and he has changed his tune about racing at Le Mans over the last 6 months, probably thanks to Webber as you say.
People can change.

Maybe with the loss of his dad he's maybe rethinking do i really want to spend 10 months of the year working and travelling, i could half that and still have a very comfortable lifestyle and see more of the family.

hairyben

8,516 posts

184 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
Isn't the big issue here not about JB or KM and who they choose, but the simple fact that McLaren have shown themselves to be weak and not in control of their own destiny?

No driver should ever be bigger than the team.

The team must have the confidence and the courage to choose who will drive on THEIR terms. Being effectively dictated to by Alonso and Ferrari is a pathetic state of affairs. It sends a really bad message to sponsors and tarnishes the McLaren image.

McLaren should be the ones in charge. They should have chosen their driver line up months ago, rather than end up on dangling on a hook like this.

Mclaren look bungling and weak, without any control of the situation. McLaren need stability and the ability to plan ahead - they have a development programme with a new engine to deliver. This uncertainty is bad for everyone. It also makes McLaren look like clowns.

No driver is worth destroying your reputational capital over - not even Fred Alonso.

McLaren should have told Alonso to either join them two months ago or f***k off.

If I were a sponsor I would be massively unimpressed.
Pretty much.

I have trouble squaring the mess they're in right now with this drippy idea that "because mclaren-honda" that they'll be a title chasing team.

London424

12,829 posts

176 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
hairyben said:
toppstuff said:
Isn't the big issue here not about JB or KM and who they choose, but the simple fact that McLaren have shown themselves to be weak and not in control of their own destiny?

No driver should ever be bigger than the team.

The team must have the confidence and the courage to choose who will drive on THEIR terms. Being effectively dictated to by Alonso and Ferrari is a pathetic state of affairs. It sends a really bad message to sponsors and tarnishes the McLaren image.

McLaren should be the ones in charge. They should have chosen their driver line up months ago, rather than end up on dangling on a hook like this.

Mclaren look bungling and weak, without any control of the situation. McLaren need stability and the ability to plan ahead - they have a development programme with a new engine to deliver. This uncertainty is bad for everyone. It also makes McLaren look like clowns.

No driver is worth destroying your reputational capital over - not even Fred Alonso.

McLaren should have told Alonso to either join them two months ago or f***k off.

If I were a sponsor I would be massively unimpressed.
Pretty much.

I have trouble squaring the mess they're in right now with this drippy idea that "because mclaren-honda" that they'll be a title chasing team.
As has been said many times...they already have the best engine on the grid in their car.

hairyben

8,516 posts

184 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
London424 said:
hairyben said:
toppstuff said:
Isn't the big issue here not about JB or KM and who they choose, but the simple fact that McLaren have shown themselves to be weak and not in control of their own destiny?

No driver should ever be bigger than the team.

The team must have the confidence and the courage to choose who will drive on THEIR terms. Being effectively dictated to by Alonso and Ferrari is a pathetic state of affairs. It sends a really bad message to sponsors and tarnishes the McLaren image.

McLaren should be the ones in charge. They should have chosen their driver line up months ago, rather than end up on dangling on a hook like this.

Mclaren look bungling and weak, without any control of the situation. McLaren need stability and the ability to plan ahead - they have a development programme with a new engine to deliver. This uncertainty is bad for everyone. It also makes McLaren look like clowns.

No driver is worth destroying your reputational capital over - not even Fred Alonso.

McLaren should have told Alonso to either join them two months ago or f***k off.

If I were a sponsor I would be massively unimpressed.
Pretty much.

I have trouble squaring the mess they're in right now with this drippy idea that "because mclaren-honda" that they'll be a title chasing team.
As has been said many times...they already have the best engine on the grid in their car.
Yup. Mclaren have demonstrated a highly developed skill at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with the quickest car on the grid. And right now the cars a dog... without the merc lump flattering it what place would it be?

Europa1

10,923 posts

189 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
Isn't the big issue here not about JB or KM and who they choose, but the simple fact that McLaren have shown themselves to be weak and not in control of their own destiny?

No driver should ever be bigger than the team.

The team must have the confidence and the courage to choose who will drive on THEIR terms. Being effectively dictated to by Alonso and Ferrari is a pathetic state of affairs. It sends a really bad message to sponsors and tarnishes the McLaren image.

McLaren should be the ones in charge. They should have chosen their driver line up months ago, rather than end up on dangling on a hook like this.

Mclaren look bungling and weak, without any control of the situation. McLaren need stability and the ability to plan ahead - they have a development programme with a new engine to deliver. This uncertainty is bad for everyone. It also makes McLaren look like clowns.

No driver is worth destroying your reputational capital over - not even Fred Alonso.

McLaren should have told Alonso to either join them two months ago or f***k off.

If I were a sponsor I would be massively unimpressed.
Well said.

RobGT81

5,229 posts

187 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
egor110 said:
People can change.

Maybe with the loss of his dad he's maybe rethinking do i really want to spend 10 months of the year working and travelling, i could half that and still have a very comfortable lifestyle and see more of the family.
Thats very true.

I'm looking forward to Porsche announcing their first car line up as Webber, Button, Alonso.

EskimoArapaho

5,135 posts

136 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
Europa1 said:
toppstuff said:
Isn't the big issue here not about JB or KM and who they choose, but the simple fact that McLaren have shown themselves to be weak and not in control of their own destiny?

No driver should ever be bigger than the team.

The team must have the confidence and the courage to choose who will drive on THEIR terms. Being effectively dictated to by Alonso and Ferrari is a pathetic state of affairs. It sends a really bad message to sponsors and tarnishes the McLaren image.

McLaren should be the ones in charge. They should have chosen their driver line up months ago, rather than end up on dangling on a hook like this.

Mclaren look bungling and weak, without any control of the situation. McLaren need stability and the ability to plan ahead - they have a development programme with a new engine to deliver. This uncertainty is bad for everyone. It also makes McLaren look like clowns.

No driver is worth destroying your reputational capital over - not even Fred Alonso.

McLaren should have told Alonso to either join them two months ago or f***k off.

If I were a sponsor I would be massively unimpressed.
Well said.
Unless the sponsor's terms are also contributing to the driver choice kerfuffle...

MrBaker

323 posts

131 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
Thats very true.

I'm looking forward to Porsche announcing their first car line up as Webber, Button, Alonso.
Haha, I thought the same, that would be some line up !

egor110

16,899 posts

204 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
MrBaker said:
RobGT81 said:
Thats very true.

I'm looking forward to Porsche announcing their first car line up as Webber, Button, Alonso.
Haha, I thought the same, that would be some line up !
Didn't a journalist after the last wec race say there was some massive news to come?

Button to wec isn't massive news, alonso on the other hand would be.

MartG

20,695 posts

205 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
McLaren posted the following on Facebook:

"Bring on the last Free Practice sessions of the season. Let’s rally behind our boys in Abu Dhabi."

Every single reply is slagging McLaren off for not confirming drivers and potentially dumping Jenson smile

Henry Fiddleton

1,581 posts

178 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
Firstly, I am a JB. Moving on..

Even with JB, they have been very weak with sponsors, Hugo Boss, and Jonny Walker have gone.

With the Merc lump they have been poor.

As harsh as it sounds, they need Alonso (he brings major Spanish sponsorship, and at least in F1.motorsport circles, Global coverage).

They need Honda as well - they need Honda to out trump the mercs.

Having JB in the 2nd seat is almost irrelevant; might has well have a chump (KM), and Alonso to lead with Honda backing.

Will be great to see JB in WEC.

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

153 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
egor110 said:
Didn't a journalist after the last wec race say there was some massive news to come?

Button to wec isn't massive news, alonso on the other hand would be.
'Massive' news would be a manufacturer.

Ferrari are rumoured.