Welcome back Jenson?

Welcome back Jenson?

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dr_gn

16,140 posts

183 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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andygo said:
Apparently Eric B thinks that JB isnt inherently fast enough for the seat.
...for the kind of money Button wll be asking to be paid.

I guess his WDC status and "matching Hamilton at McLaren" doesn't necessarily tell the whole story of Button's true worth in the minds of some people in the paddock then?

ukaskew

10,642 posts

220 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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So nearly double the points as it stands and has even out-qualified KM over the season...I guess there could be various financial and commercial pressures that might mean Button doesn't get a seat at McLaren next season, but not being quick enough certainly can't be one of them.

I would love to see Alonso and Button in the same cars next season, Button has already ticked off what he wanted to achieve (WDC and held his own against Hamilton), a straight fight against the most widely highly regarded driver would probably complete the set.

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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I am starting to think both Magnussen and Button will be out of a drive. Alonso will go in with clear no 1 status, access to all the best engineers, upgrades, etc. He will be paired up with some young 'talent' (with bags of money) who he will not have to worry about at all. McLaren will end up effectively running 1 car 1 man team, as Ferrari have done for the last 5 years.


MartG

20,621 posts

203 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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VolvoT5 said:
I am starting to think both Magnussen and Button will be out of a drive. Alonso will go in with clear no 1 status, access to all the best engineers, upgrades, etc. He will be paired up with some young 'talent' (with bags of money) who he will not have to worry about at all. McLaren will end up effectively running 1 car 1 man team, as Ferrari have done for the last 5 years.
...and still fail to get a championship wink

Agent Orange

2,194 posts

245 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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VolvoT5 said:
I am starting to think both Magnussen and Button will be out of a drive. Alonso will go in with clear no 1 status, access to all the best engineers, upgrades, etc. He will be paired up with some young 'talent' (with bags of money) who he will not have to worry about at all. McLaren will end up effectively running 1 car 1 man team, as Ferrari have done for the last 5 years.
Ignoring JB completely for a moment, and part of me hates myself for saying this, but isn't that what KMag is in real danger of becoming? "some young talent with bags of money" ?

In the first race or two I thought he had something but as the season has progressed he looks like just another driver for a midfield team. I can't see anything that marks him out as different or special from any other midfield driver. Not a lot of xfactor about him either.

Still bringing $30M is hard to ignore and you'd rather KMag in you car than Pastor. So I hope he continues in F1, because he occasionally has flashes of speed, but I think he's done with McLaren.

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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MartG said:
...and still fail to get a championship wink
Well exactly. I mean nobody can deny Alonso has comprehensively beaten his much respected team mate this year; he certainly has a talent for maximizing the result from a bad car or a difficult to drive car. But I can't help but wonder if given a good car if he really would be any faster than the likes of Button, Rosberg, Raikkonen, etc. Just look at how wafer thin the margin between Hamilton and Rosberg is this year when most people thought Lewis would blow Nico into the weeds. The reality is Merc could have easily won the championship with either driver.

I feel ultimately winning the championships does come down to the best car and a bit of good fortune along the way - if the car is good the driver really doesn't suddenly make a half a second difference, it is more like a tenth here and there. Is it really worth paying out $50m and putting up with Alonso's ego for that?

I fear by only having one experienced driver Mclaren may be placing all their eggs in one basket....which didn't work for Ferrari.


Edited by VolvoT5 on Saturday 22 November 18:57

dr_gn

16,140 posts

183 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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VolvoT5 said:
MartG said:
...and still fail to get a championship wink
Well exactly. I mean nobody can deny Alonso has comprehensively beaten his much respected team mate this year; he certainly has a talent for maximizing the result from a bad car or a difficult to drive car. But I can't help but wonder if given a good car if he really would be any faster than the likes of Button, Rosberg, Raikkonen, etc. Just look at how wafer thin the margin between Hamilton and Rosberg is this year when most people thought Lewis would blow Nico into the weeds. The reality is Merc could have easily won the championship with either driver.

I feel ultimately winning the championships does come down to the best car and a bit of good fortune along the way - if the car is good the driver really doesn't suddenly make a half a second difference, it is more like a tenth here and there. Is it really worth paying out $50m and putting up with Alonso's ego for that?

I fear by only having one experienced driver Mclaren may be placing all their eggs in one basket....which didn't work for Ferrari.


Edited by VolvoT5 on Saturday 22 November 18:57
I doubt McLaren are looking to win either championship next year, but if they can show Alonso some potential I guess they're hoping to retain him and maybe put another 'name' in the second car.

What they don't need is to pay vastly over the odds for an over-rated Button when there are much more attractive options out there for the no.2 seat in a development year.

Personally I'd ditch Button and the other one and take a chance on some other young driver in the hope then end up with another Bottas.

TerzoNeil

335 posts

202 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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button to stay along side fred

if they can develop car it will be in with a shout to beat them mercs

llewop

3,585 posts

210 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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Agent Orange said:
bringing $30M is hard to ignore
a few people have quoted this figure - what $30M is he bringing?

DanTVR

281 posts

183 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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Just seen the qualifying and watched the Interview with Eric boulier and thought his reaction to Ted reminding him that Jenson was faster than Magnusson was disgraceful. As a team boss why would you have such ill feeling towards ones of your drivers, to not even be able to acknowledge a reasonable qualifying session with limited practise time?

What is EB's problem with JB? The sky crew alluded to it earlier in the programme but didn't go into detail. I hope it's not because his name doesn't start with Romain.

Another point is that under Ron Dennis, please correct me if im wrong but McLaren s philosophy has always been to let their drivers race. I don't think they would accept alonso's terms if he is after a number 1 status. Don't forget Ferrari probably wanted rid of Alonso as much as he wanted to leave so I doubt he has much bargaining power now his still warm fferrari seat has been filled.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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DanTVR said:
What is EB's problem with JB? The sky crew alluded to it earlier in the programme but didn't go into detail. I hope it's not because his name doesn't start with Romain.
It might be more of an age and value for £ thing.

Romain was very impressive last year (after some crash ridden over enthusiasm of previous) - a very accomplished performance. EB has seen all the race data from both and might be thinking that if he was building a 5 year campaign then someone like Romain might be a better bet for the long term.

MG511

1,754 posts

240 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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And as Grojeans manager he would get 20% of his salary. EB does not strike me as an inspirational leader, or a pleasant person.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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MG511 said:
And as Grojeans manager he would get 20% of his salary. EB does not strike me as an inspirational leader, or a pleasant person.
I had forgotten that. Though Ron might see that as a conflict of interest. Hopefully.

No team principal should allowed to be their driver manager - should be written in FIA statute post Piquet-Crash-Gate....

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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Vaud said:
DanTVR said:
What is EB's problem with JB? The sky crew alluded to it earlier in the programme but didn't go into detail. I hope it's not because his name doesn't start with Romain.
It might be more of an age and value for £ thing.

Romain was very impressive last year (after some crash ridden over enthusiasm of previous) - a very accomplished performance. EB has seen all the race data from both and might be thinking that if he was building a 5 year campaign then someone like Romain might be a better bet for the long term.
..and that as Grosjean's manager, his percentage cut of a McLaren salary will be larger than his percentage cut of a Lotus salary.

Much as I love the racing and the technology of Formula 1, it is unbelievably riven with self interest and conflicts of interest. Maybe Sepp Blatter will take over running the sport?


IroningMan

10,154 posts

245 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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EB certainly isn't inspiring me to continue being a fan of McLaren.

andygo

6,786 posts

254 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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MG511 said:
And as Grojeans manager he would get 20% of his salary. EB does not strike me as an inspirational leader, or a pleasant person.
yes
yes

DanTVR

281 posts

183 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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True but no comparible data. I personally think that Eric boulier is blinkered to Romain as he has a vested interest in him. It was weird call for me personally putting him in McLaren, I don't think he is a good fit for the team and was fully expecting them to have replaced him by now. Considering he was a rush replacement for whitmarsh and needed a pay check from someone as lotus were doing the biz.

Back to Jenson, it will be a sad day if he loses his seat. I always rate him as a hit and miss driver, if the car isn't perfect he can struggle, but the best races formula 1 has ever provided have seen him on the podium. Would be a shame if he doesn't get the see out his career on his terms, although I think he is dropping g enough hints to suggest he won't be staying

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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DanTVR said:
Back to Jenson, I always rate him as a hit and miss driver,
that's interesting apparently he scored more points than Lewis during there time together and he has out performed his tea mate again this season.

DanTVR

281 posts

183 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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johnxjsc1985 said:
that's interesting apparently he scored more points than Lewis during there time together and he has out performed his tea mate again this season.
Very true, safe pair of hands as they say. But if I'm not mistaken the point difference is only something like 25 points in all the time they were racing together. As Jeson has less race wins that means he has been more consistent. As I say I'm a huge fan of his but some of his drives have left me wanting. That said some of them, like Canada 2012? Have me in awe.

johnfm

13,668 posts

249 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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i don't understand the secrecy about the move. I can only assume there is some contractual confidentiality obligation preventing JB from divulging what is happening.