**** American Grand Prix ***** (contains spoilers)
Discussion
Ahonen said:
It isn't. This has been building up for years as many teams have struggled on, constantly financially firefighting. What the introduction of the new engine regs has done is bring it rapidly to a head due to the extra expenditure required.
Outside of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull none of the teams are that secure. McLaren has no title sponsor and is clearly raiding the coffers this year. Think about that: the team which was winning multiple races as recently as 2012, with a huge reputation and a forthcoming works Honda deal, cannot attract a title sponsor. Williams has has to spend a huge amount of extra money, generating a £20m loss, to get back up there and the Martini deal isn't as lucrative as one might think. Lotus, the 2nd best outfit of 2013 let's remember, is in it up to its neck and came very close to going under a few times in the last 12-24 months. Torro Rosso is probably okay, but if DM's interest wanes much further he might not want to fund a junior team for much longer, while Sauber is completely skint and Force India is doing a sensational job on no money at all. It's not pretty at all.
We have European racetracks that make a loss on every GP they host regardless of how many outrageously overpriced tickets they sell to the public - Silverstone will make a loss on a three day sell out, for example. 0% finance deals to buy tickets to a sporting event? Really?!
And all BCE can say regarding the teams is 'they can f*ck off if they can't afford it' and then moans that Monza isn't economically viable anymore, thus forcing it to somehow find yet more money to fund the privilege of making a massive annual loss. And all the while CVC creams off 50% of the total F1 revenue every year for doing.....nothing.
But it'll all be okay because F1 is going to be floated on the stock market very soon and everyone will get a share.
We also have, as Ron Dennis pointed out earlier this year, the baffling situation where the promoter of the Championship is actively slating the new engines in public.
It is all completely crazy.
Spot on. The problems are way more structural than the technical regulations; the way those regulations were arrived at is merely symptomatic of deep issues with the whole governance/commercial structure of the sport.Outside of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull none of the teams are that secure. McLaren has no title sponsor and is clearly raiding the coffers this year. Think about that: the team which was winning multiple races as recently as 2012, with a huge reputation and a forthcoming works Honda deal, cannot attract a title sponsor. Williams has has to spend a huge amount of extra money, generating a £20m loss, to get back up there and the Martini deal isn't as lucrative as one might think. Lotus, the 2nd best outfit of 2013 let's remember, is in it up to its neck and came very close to going under a few times in the last 12-24 months. Torro Rosso is probably okay, but if DM's interest wanes much further he might not want to fund a junior team for much longer, while Sauber is completely skint and Force India is doing a sensational job on no money at all. It's not pretty at all.
We have European racetracks that make a loss on every GP they host regardless of how many outrageously overpriced tickets they sell to the public - Silverstone will make a loss on a three day sell out, for example. 0% finance deals to buy tickets to a sporting event? Really?!
And all BCE can say regarding the teams is 'they can f*ck off if they can't afford it' and then moans that Monza isn't economically viable anymore, thus forcing it to somehow find yet more money to fund the privilege of making a massive annual loss. And all the while CVC creams off 50% of the total F1 revenue every year for doing.....nothing.
But it'll all be okay because F1 is going to be floated on the stock market very soon and everyone will get a share.
We also have, as Ron Dennis pointed out earlier this year, the baffling situation where the promoter of the Championship is actively slating the new engines in public.
It is all completely crazy.
Ahonen said:
It isn't. This has been building up for years as many teams have struggled on, constantly financially firefighting. What the introduction of the new engine regs has done is bring it rapidly to a head due to the extra expenditure required.
Outside of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull none of the teams are that secure. McLaren has no title sponsor and is clearly raiding the coffers this year. Think about that: the team which was winning multiple races as recently as 2012, with a huge reputation and a forthcoming works Honda deal, cannot attract a title sponsor. Williams has has to spend a huge amount of extra money, generating a £20m loss, to get back up there and the Martini deal isn't as lucrative as one might think. Lotus, the 2nd best outfit of 2013 let's remember, is in it up to its neck and came very close to going under a few times in the last 12-24 months. Torro Rosso is probably okay, but if DM's interest wanes much further he might not want to fund a junior team for much longer, while Sauber is completely skint and Force India is doing a sensational job on no money at all. It's not pretty at all.
We have European racetracks that make a loss on every GP they host regardless of how many outrageously overpriced tickets they sell to the public - Silverstone will make a loss on a three day sell out, for example. 0% finance deals to buy tickets to a sporting event? Really?!
And all BCE can say regarding the teams is 'they can f*ck off if they can't afford it' and then moans that Monza isn't economically viable anymore, thus forcing it to somehow find yet more money to fund the privilege of making a massive annual loss. And all the while CVC creams off 50% of the total F1 revenue every year for doing.....nothing.
But it'll all be okay because F1 is going to be floated on the stock market very soon and everyone will get a share.
We also have, as Ron Dennis pointed out earlier this year, the baffling situation where the promoter of the Championship is actively slating the new engines in public.
It is all completely crazy.
Yup. You certainly hit the nail on the head there. Outside of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull none of the teams are that secure. McLaren has no title sponsor and is clearly raiding the coffers this year. Think about that: the team which was winning multiple races as recently as 2012, with a huge reputation and a forthcoming works Honda deal, cannot attract a title sponsor. Williams has has to spend a huge amount of extra money, generating a £20m loss, to get back up there and the Martini deal isn't as lucrative as one might think. Lotus, the 2nd best outfit of 2013 let's remember, is in it up to its neck and came very close to going under a few times in the last 12-24 months. Torro Rosso is probably okay, but if DM's interest wanes much further he might not want to fund a junior team for much longer, while Sauber is completely skint and Force India is doing a sensational job on no money at all. It's not pretty at all.
We have European racetracks that make a loss on every GP they host regardless of how many outrageously overpriced tickets they sell to the public - Silverstone will make a loss on a three day sell out, for example. 0% finance deals to buy tickets to a sporting event? Really?!
And all BCE can say regarding the teams is 'they can f*ck off if they can't afford it' and then moans that Monza isn't economically viable anymore, thus forcing it to somehow find yet more money to fund the privilege of making a massive annual loss. And all the while CVC creams off 50% of the total F1 revenue every year for doing.....nothing.
But it'll all be okay because F1 is going to be floated on the stock market very soon and everyone will get a share.
We also have, as Ron Dennis pointed out earlier this year, the baffling situation where the promoter of the Championship is actively slating the new engines in public.
It is all completely crazy.
tux said:
hornetrider said:
Just tuned in to FP3. Is Rosberg practising his long run pace, otherwise Lewis appears to have smashed him up.
Had brake problems throughout the session.Ahonen said:
It isn't. This has been building up for years as many teams have struggled on, constantly financially firefighting. What the introduction of the new engine regs has done is bring it rapidly to a head due to the extra expenditure required.
Apparently, Mercedes spent £325m last year on it's F1 activities, including £134m on it's engine division alone. I'm sure that this year's total domination will mean that the enormous spend will be considered money well spent by Mercedes marketing divisions, and good for them. Whether it's good for F1 to allow itself to be used as a marketing tool by one or two enormous companies who can outspend and dominate the other teams is another question altogether.Bob Fernley is coming off as a sh*t stirrer. In the paper stories about the boycott he is quoted as saying that all options including a boycott need to be considered. The whole story appears to stem from him talking to media.
Brundle has just asked him straight about a boycott "Oh, you'll have to ask the team owners"...
He seems convinced that the the FIA, FOM and the bigger teams have an agenda to destroy the little teams.
He is also claiming that the team do not know the rules around third cars and that no-one is telling them anything. Err, well someone in that team signed the Concorde, so either they aren't sharing that with the rest of the team or the Concorde contains nothing about third cars.
Brundle has just asked him straight about a boycott "Oh, you'll have to ask the team owners"...
He seems convinced that the the FIA, FOM and the bigger teams have an agenda to destroy the little teams.
He is also claiming that the team do not know the rules around third cars and that no-one is telling them anything. Err, well someone in that team signed the Concorde, so either they aren't sharing that with the rest of the team or the Concorde contains nothing about third cars.
RYH64E said:
Apparently, Mercedes spent £325m last year on it's F1 activities, including £134m on it's engine division alone. I'm sure that this year's total domination will mean that the enormous spend will be considered money well spent by Mercedes marketing divisions, and good for them. Whether it's good for F1 to allow itself to be used as a marketing tool by one or two enormous companies who can outspend and dominate the other teams is another question altogether.
That's not rightHPE alone have spent close to $1B on the powertrain.
Scuffers said:
That's not right
HPE alone have spent close to $1B on the powertrain.
From here:HPE alone have spent close to $1B on the powertrain.
http://www.pitpass.com/52739/Mercedes-spending-acc...
Pitpass said:
Financial statements for the German manufacturer's F1 engine manufacturing division in Northamptonshire show that in 2013 it spent £133.9m which is nearly double the budget it had just three years earlier.
Maybe the $1bn is a total spend whereas the £134m is 2013 only?Scuffers said:
Must be just miss info then, they had 800+ people working on it last year, just the wage bill alone blows that out the water.
I can't believe that F1 collectively has spent so much money and ended up with something significantly worse than what they had originally, in all respects other than fuel efficiency of course.
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