**** American Grand Prix ***** (contains spoilers)

[BigBen]

StevieBee said:

Brundle is a staunch supporter of F1 and I got the distinct impression yesterday that he was more than a little pissed off at the negative talk surrounding the sport and probably, the editorial direction of the pre-race coverage that he had no doubt been obliged to follow. As a result, he wasn't quite as on it as he normally is until the race started to come alive.

It may not be as complicated as that. I met Brundle at about 3:00am on race day and he was rat arsed, the resulting hangover dulling him pre race.

[anonymous-user]

Tyre Tread said:

The Surveyor said:

This is the main thing that struck me from the race. Nico never made any attempt to even push Lewis once he was past, he seemed to just let him past and let him get on his way to another victory. Great driving from Lewis but it suggests that Nico doesn't have any fight in him, he's just hoping that the unreliability that Lewis had at the start of the season returns to gift Nico the Championship.

[tinfoilhaton)Or he knows something we don't?[/tinfoilhaton)

Of course he knows something that we don't. They all do. Just as Brundle explained to Croft how Bottas knew he only had a couple of laps left before his tyres were be unusable, Rosberg would have known as soon as he was passed whether he had the car to go back at Hamilton. As would Hamilton and the rest of the team.

What you're alluding to, of course, won't happen. Only an idiot would seriously think that.

[JonRB]

BigBen said:

It may not be as complicated as that. I met Brundle at about 3:00am on race day and he was rat arsed, the resulting hangover dulling him pre race.

[Europa1]

JonRB said:

BigBen said:

It may not be as complicated as that. I met Brundle at about 3:00am on race day and he was rat arsed, the resulting hangover dulling him pre race.

Mr Brundle has just gone up another notch in my estimation.

[hornetrider]

The Surveyor said:

Targarama said:

Pleased to see Lewis win in this way. However, I'm a little disappointed that Nico didn't come back at him at bit, true sign he knew he wouldn't win the fight.

This is the main thing that struck me from the race. Nico never made any attempt to even push Lewis once he was past, he seemed to just let him past and let him get on his way to another victory. Great driving from Lewis but it suggests that Nico doesn't have any fight in him, he's just hoping that the unreliability that Lewis had at the start of the season returns to gift Nico the Championship.

My view is that Nico tried. My reading of the race is this.

At the first round of pitstops Lewis wound on some front wing, and after this he was able to close and pass Nico and build a small lead of 3-4s. After the second round of pitstops the gap from Lewis to Nico gradually came down from around 4s to under 2s at one point - did Nico copy Lewis and add some front wing in the second stop possibly in order to improve performance? Or perhaps he took a bit too much out of the tyres in trying to catch up, but ultimately didn't have the pace/tyres left to pass. Either way the gap then drifted out to ~2.5s and stayed there til the chequered flag.

My overall assessment of the pair is that Nico is a very good driver, however Lewis is just that little bit faster. Lewis is also proving to be a very canny operator, perhaps setting his car up for race pace and accepting he may give pole to Nico? Also yesterday I'd say he chose his moment to push very well - he didn't hustle Nico on worn tyres when he couldn't get a quick pass done early doors and was suffering a smidge of understeer - he waited until he came in, got fresh boots and adjusted the front wing.

[JonRB]

hornetrider said:

At the first round of pitstops Lewis wound on some front wing, and after this he was able to close and pass Nico and build a small lead of 3-4s. After the second round of pitstops the gap from Lewis to Nico gradually came down from around 4s to under 2s at one point - did Nico copy Lewis and add some front wing in the second stop possibly in order to improve performance? Or perhaps he took a bit too much out of the tyres in trying to catch up, but ultimately didn't have the pace/tyres left to pass. Either way the gap then drifted out to ~2.5s and stayed there til the chequered flag.

Under the old pit radio rules, Nico would have been told exactly what settings Lewis was running and where he was making up the time, and Nico would have literally been coached over the radio as to how to copy Lewis and remove Lewis' advantage. He'd have also been told that Lewis had adjusted his wing settings and asked if he would like the same applied on his next pit stop.

Thank goodness all that is now banned and Nico can no longer crib Lewis' homework.

[Munter]

hornetrider said:

My view is that Nico tried. My reading of the race is this.

At the first round of pitstops Lewis wound on some front wing, and after this he was able to close and pass Nico and build a small lead of 3-4s. After the second round of pitstops the gap from Lewis to Nico gradually came down from around 4s to under 2s at one point - did Nico copy Lewis and add some front wing in the second stop possibly in order to improve performance? Or perhaps he took a bit too much out of the tyres in trying to catch up, but ultimately didn't have the pace/tyres left to pass. Either way the gap then drifted out to ~2.5s and stayed there til the chequered flag.

My overall assessment of the pair is that Nico is a very good driver, however Lewis is just that little bit faster. Lewis is also proving to be a very canny operator, perhaps setting his car up for race pace and accepting he may give pole to Nico? Also yesterday I'd say he chose his moment to push very well - he didn't hustle Nico on worn tyres when he couldn't get a quick pass done early doors and was suffering a smidge of understeer - he waited until he came in, got fresh boots and adjusted the front wing.

I seem to recall lewis saying he had oversteer, so wound off some front wing at the stop, after that the balance was perfect. But the rest applies.

[suffolk009]

BigBen said:

It may not be as complicated as that. I met Brundle at about 3:00am on race day and he was rat arsed, the resulting hangover dulling him pre race.

What a legend.

[fatboy69]

suffolk009 said:

BigBen said:

It may not be as complicated as that. I met Brundle at about 3:00am on race day and he was rat arsed, the resulting hangover dulling him pre race.

What a legend.

That's sorted then. MB takes over the running of F1 from the dwarf & when the team bosses get stroppy because MB wants to run F1 properly, he takes all the team principals to the pub, gets them bladdered & ensures they all agree to his proposals & they sign up in the pub!!!!

Sorted.



In all seriousness I remain convinced that he would do a bloody good job. Drop all the political bks, bring back common sense (& proper race tracks) & let us go racing without the usual dramas.

F1 back in the hands of someone who isn't doing the job for his own benefit or bank balance........

[FourWheelDrift]

We thought that would happen when Spanky Moseley took over from the evil Balestre.

[Scuffers]

fatboy69 said:

F1 back in the hands of someone who isn't doing the job for his own benefit or bank balance........

history does not support your assertions,

Berni is where he is because at the time, nobody else gave a crap, and he was the only one who got stuff sorted.

All the other teams agreed to let Berni organise this stuff, so they can hardly moan when he does and makes a very decent go of it.

Look up your history, the formation of FOCA etc.

the problems really relate to fairly recent stuff, the teams spent more time backstabbing each other and left Berni to do whatever, hardly surprising he took full advantage of the situation, and lets face it, the FIA has been lead by muppets for years.

(I am not an ardent fan of Berni, just trying to put into context)

[hornetrider]

Munter said:

I seem to recall lewis saying he had oversteer, so wound off some front wing at the stop, after that the balance was perfect. But the rest applies.

I'm convenced Ted reported understeer from the pitlane during the race. A quick Google search throws up understeer in the summaries, however the related Sky articles have text changed to 'poor balance'.

Not this one though http://www.setanta.com/ie/us-gp/

[Jasandjules]

JonRB said:

Thank goodness all that is now banned and Nico can no longer crib Lewis' homework.

I think that is pretty much what Ted was saying at the end of the race. Basically, Nico hasn't beaten Lewis on track since the coaching over the radio stopped.

As for him not fighting back, I wonder if he has very much in mind Spa and didn't want a repeat, plus he knows the bottom line is that no matter what, the last race of the season is going to decide the Championship, so no need to risk it.

I did rather enjoy hearing Toto say perhaps now they can unleash the drivers fully though....

[noell35]

JonRB said:

hornetrider said:

At the first round of pitstops Lewis wound on some front wing, and after this he was able to close and pass Nico and build a small lead of 3-4s. After the second round of pitstops the gap from Lewis to Nico gradually came down from around 4s to under 2s at one point - did Nico copy Lewis and add some front wing in the second stop possibly in order to improve performance? Or perhaps he took a bit too much out of the tyres in trying to catch up, but ultimately didn't have the pace/tyres left to pass. Either way the gap then drifted out to ~2.5s and stayed there til the chequered flag.

Under the old pit radio rules, Nico would have been told exactly what settings Lewis was running and where he was making up the time, and Nico would have literally been coached over the radio as to how to copy Lewis and remove Lewis' advantage. He'd have also been told that Lewis had adjusted his wing settings and asked if he would like the same applied on his next pit stop.

Thank goodness all that is now banned and Nico can no longer crib Lewis' homework.

I haven't read all the thread so not sure if this has been mentioned but Nico spoke post-race about how long it takes him to adjust all the settings to get the car dialled in during the race and that once he had it all working perfectly it was too late to catch LH.
To me, either LH is quicker to get his settings where they need to be or is better at driving a car quickly that isn't quite set up right. Or a bit of both.

[hornetrider]

noell35 said:

JonRB said:

hornetrider said:

At the first round of pitstops Lewis wound on some front wing, and after this he was able to close and pass Nico and build a small lead of 3-4s. After the second round of pitstops the gap from Lewis to Nico gradually came down from around 4s to under 2s at one point - did Nico copy Lewis and add some front wing in the second stop possibly in order to improve performance? Or perhaps he took a bit too much out of the tyres in trying to catch up, but ultimately didn't have the pace/tyres left to pass. Either way the gap then drifted out to ~2.5s and stayed there til the chequered flag.

Under the old pit radio rules, Nico would have been told exactly what settings Lewis was running and where he was making up the time, and Nico would have literally been coached over the radio as to how to copy Lewis and remove Lewis' advantage. He'd have also been told that Lewis had adjusted his wing settings and asked if he would like the same applied on his next pit stop.

Thank goodness all that is now banned and Nico can no longer crib Lewis' homework.

I haven't read all the thread so not sure if this has been mentioned but Nico spoke post-race about how long it takes him to adjust all the settings to get the car dialled in during the race and that once he had it all working perfectly it was too late to catch LH.
To me, either LH is quicker to get his settings where they need to be or is better at driving a car quickly that isn't quite set up right. Or a bit of both.

Well. It's always the settings, or a problem, isn't it?

He's hardly going to say - Lewis is faster than me.

[Munter]

hornetrider said:

Munter said:

I seem to recall lewis saying he had oversteer, so wound off some front wing at the stop, after that the balance was perfect. But the rest applies.

I'm convenced Ted reported understeer from the pitlane during the race. A quick Google search throws up understeer in the summaries, however the related Sky articles have text changed to 'poor balance'.

Not this one though http://www.setanta.com/ie/us-gp/

1:00 onwards in this interview.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29873424

Rear tyres went off a bit
Took some front wing out
Really nice balance after that

I think what might have confused some of the less F1 focussed press is how a front wing change can affect oversteer.

But either way a front wing change to improve balance at the first stop.

[The Surveyor]

REALIST123 said:

Tyre Tread said:

The Surveyor said:

This is the main thing that struck me from the race. Nico never made any attempt to even push Lewis once he was past, he seemed to just let him past and let him get on his way to another victory. Great driving from Lewis but it suggests that Nico doesn't have any fight in him, he's just hoping that the unreliability that Lewis had at the start of the season returns to gift Nico the Championship.

[tinfoilhaton)Or he knows something we don't?[/tinfoilhaton)

Of course he knows something that we don't. They all do. Just as Brundle explained to Croft how Bottas knew he only had a couple of laps left before his tyres were be unusable, Rosberg would have known as soon as he was passed whether he had the car to go back at Hamilton. As would Hamilton and the rest of the team.

What you're alluding to, of course, won't happen. Only an idiot would seriously think that.

The pass Lewis made was sufficiently early in the race for Nico to at least have a go at Lewis and put some pressure on him, to adjust his tyre strategy or aero balance like Lewis did. I'd agree if Hamilton had passed at the end of the race, but this wasn't even half-distance. I'm struggling to believe Nico didn't have a strategy to counter an overtake by Lewis if he had any real desire to beat him!

[JonRB]

Well, this is an interesting development. If true.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29888406

[Hungrymc]

The Surveyor said:

The pass Lewis made was sufficiently early in the race for Nico to at least have a go at Lewis and put some pressure on him, to adjust his tyre strategy or aero balance like Lewis did. I'd agree if Hamilton had passed at the end of the race, but this wasn't even half-distance. I'm struggling to believe Nico didn't have a strategy to counter an overtake by Lewis if he had any real desire to beat him!

Was it a strategy issue or a pace issue? Don't forget Merc wouldn't allow them to go onto significantly different strategies (1st car gets the pit stop timing call). Nico closed 2.5 / 3 seconds on the final stint but Lewis responded and held the gap at 2 seconds. Nico did all he could but he was well beaten. No one wants to get done by their team mate in the same car on the same strategy, particularly having been so much quicker in qualifying and holding track position. Nico will be very upset at that race (more so than any other this year as there was no controversy to distract everyone from the fact that Lewis passed him and controlled the race). He also didn't have an eye on 'it all comes down to the last round'.... He will want to go into the last race leading the championship, if he can't lead, he'll want to be within 14 points. Anyone thinking he will be happy hoping Lewis has a DNF is really kidding themselves.

[Crafty_]

Lewis turned up for the race saying "he'd done his homework". After the race he told Brundle that he'd gone back and looked at the 20012 race and amongst other things noticed that he'd done more braking in a straight line before turning in and was a bit perplexed as to why he hadn't thought of it sooner. He also reflected that during this race he was catching Nico at all the same places he could Vettel at in 2012.

Nico for his part said he overdrove the front tyres and struggled with steering wheel settings, it was later reported he'd left a switch on that reduced the amount of ERS power available for a little while.


As for Brundle taking Bernie's job, I'd actually like to see a forum of independents run the sport - Brundle certainly, Brawn for the technical side. Lauda for both sport and business side, dare I say Stewart too. People who know and love the sport.
Its not going to happen while CVC own it. If the teams bought it they'd soon start manipulating things to their own ends.. difficult situation.