Where did it all go wrong for the original Lotus team?
Discussion
possibly the only good thing I could say about pc was he was good at choosing drivers
As I said in 94 we were hardly paid on time,mostly finding out there wasn't any money when we went to the bank on a Fri an we were 12 weeks behind at one point
We had a company pension scheme with the company putting in a share ,we had a meeting with the provider who told us due to team not putting in their share we were getting a bad deal an should switch to individual pensions
Most people switched but when team went down we found they hadn't even paid our own payments to the provider even thou they took the deductions from us !
There was a report from the DTI (I think ?) that I read in about 97 covering the collapse of team and it makes stunning reading ! cons,cons an more cons !!!
The last roll of the dice was when Collins met Sam Brown, an American who was supposed to have a massive amount of money from Aalco and wanted to save the team
That's when pc put team into administration the plan was to buy it out of admin with Sam Brown and make a fresh start having wiped out a 12 million dept
Not sure if Mr Brown was a fantasist or con man ? but when he had to stump up £500,000 he couldn't/didn't
That's when David Hunt got involved, he knew PC from their time together at Benetton and he agreed to buy the team till PC had the money from America.
When the money never arrived David was stuck with a F1 team he never intended to own and when he tried to do something with it PC turned on him
As I said in 94 we were hardly paid on time,mostly finding out there wasn't any money when we went to the bank on a Fri an we were 12 weeks behind at one point
We had a company pension scheme with the company putting in a share ,we had a meeting with the provider who told us due to team not putting in their share we were getting a bad deal an should switch to individual pensions
Most people switched but when team went down we found they hadn't even paid our own payments to the provider even thou they took the deductions from us !
There was a report from the DTI (I think ?) that I read in about 97 covering the collapse of team and it makes stunning reading ! cons,cons an more cons !!!
The last roll of the dice was when Collins met Sam Brown, an American who was supposed to have a massive amount of money from Aalco and wanted to save the team
That's when pc put team into administration the plan was to buy it out of admin with Sam Brown and make a fresh start having wiped out a 12 million dept
Not sure if Mr Brown was a fantasist or con man ? but when he had to stump up £500,000 he couldn't/didn't
That's when David Hunt got involved, he knew PC from their time together at Benetton and he agreed to buy the team till PC had the money from America.
When the money never arrived David was stuck with a F1 team he never intended to own and when he tried to do something with it PC turned on him
I was always a fan of the old Lotus team and the Senna years were probably my favourite to watch 9due to my age at the time). I always remember Estoril '85 and just watching it you knew he was something special - obviusly others had already seen something but that performance just blew me away.
Lotus probably started to loose its way after the death of Chapman and although PW seemed to / tried to hold it together it all became too much. I remeber going to Brands Hatch around the same time (Lotus day) and things seemed to me as an outsider / fan to be optimistic. It was one of my favourite days and seeing the young Senna in the pits with the JPS will always stick in my mind.
It never seemed the same once they swapped to camel livery and it very quickly became apparent that things were not right and it was much more a case of hanging on and to survive.
Lotus probably started to loose its way after the death of Chapman and although PW seemed to / tried to hold it together it all became too much. I remeber going to Brands Hatch around the same time (Lotus day) and things seemed to me as an outsider / fan to be optimistic. It was one of my favourite days and seeing the young Senna in the pits with the JPS will always stick in my mind.
It never seemed the same once they swapped to camel livery and it very quickly became apparent that things were not right and it was much more a case of hanging on and to survive.
A book on the post Chapman era would be very interesting reading.
I've read various biographies/autobiographies that have touched on it, but none that have detailed it through to the team's demise/failed resurrection.
What I have read hasn't always seemed unbiased (Mansell for example
), but is there anything already out there I can get or do we need to petition F1Rob to start writing? 
I've read various biographies/autobiographies that have touched on it, but none that have detailed it through to the team's demise/failed resurrection.
What I have read hasn't always seemed unbiased (Mansell for example
), but is there anything already out there I can get or do we need to petition F1Rob to start writing? I am pretty sure that Lotus would probably have collapsed (both as a car manufacturer and a racing team) if Chapman had lived. It is highly likely he would have ended up in jail following the revelations of the De Lorean scandal. The judge said so in his summing up. His accountant, Fred Bushell did serve time.
At the very least he would have had to resign from the company and the team. in many ways, Chapman's death ensured Lotus suffered a slow decline rather than a quick one.
At the very least he would have had to resign from the company and the team. in many ways, Chapman's death ensured Lotus suffered a slow decline rather than a quick one.
LOL pity im so bad at writing (and REALLY bad at spelling !) but don't think anyone would do it even if they were any good
If you were to write what really went on you would spend your life fighting court cases and half of what you wrote people wouldn't belive
Plus some of the really crazy stuff you just had to be there to experience it
If you were to write what really went on you would spend your life fighting court cases and half of what you wrote people wouldn't belive
Plus some of the really crazy stuff you just had to be there to experience it
I would certainly write down all the details you can remember whilst you still can. Obviously, publishing such memories in a book, blog or elsewhere on the internet might not be such a great idea due to the possibility of litigation. But get your thoughts down so that they can be recovered later if not by you, then by someone else.
And don't worry about writing standards. There are plenty of professional motoring writers out there who could be engaged to turn your material into a more readable form.
And don't worry about writing standards. There are plenty of professional motoring writers out there who could be engaged to turn your material into a more readable form.
Really interesting stuff F1Rob.
I did a small bit of business with Team Lotus in '92 and dealt with Clive Chapman who I found to be a very engaging and pleasant chap but one who, looking back now, had the world on his shoulders.
I do think you've the makings of a book here. As Eric says, there are no shortage of journalists and authors that would be willing to talk a lead on this with your input.
Litigation is only a problem if something is written that isn't true or you express your own view on any individual. For example, you wouldn't write that a certain person is a 'con-man' but you'd describe their actions and let the reader form their own view. Many of the books on Bernie Ecclestone do this very well.
I did a small bit of business with Team Lotus in '92 and dealt with Clive Chapman who I found to be a very engaging and pleasant chap but one who, looking back now, had the world on his shoulders.
I do think you've the makings of a book here. As Eric says, there are no shortage of journalists and authors that would be willing to talk a lead on this with your input.
Litigation is only a problem if something is written that isn't true or you express your own view on any individual. For example, you wouldn't write that a certain person is a 'con-man' but you'd describe their actions and let the reader form their own view. Many of the books on Bernie Ecclestone do this very well.
Eric Mc said:
I would certainly write down all the details you can remember whilst you still can. Obviously, publishing such memories in a book, blog or elsewhere on the internet might not be such a great idea due to the possibility of litigation. But get your thoughts down so that they can be recovered later if not by you, then by someone else.
And don't worry about writing standards. There are plenty of professional motoring writers out there who could be engaged to turn your material into a more readable form.
If its going to be a blog then for goodness sake don't call yourself F1Rob!And don't worry about writing standards. There are plenty of professional motoring writers out there who could be engaged to turn your material into a more readable form.
Tub was 100% finished an correct
The fact that the tub failed was what saved Martins life
Till that point our tubs were made pretty much like every other teams.
When Martin had his crash he had a 1/3 tank of fuel that on the initial moment of impact surged forward and literally ejected Martin out of the car with the seatback still attached to him (The seatbelt fixings were in the seatback)
You can see the pictures of him laying on the track with it still attached, you cant be totally sure but could of saved him from injury to any vital organs but his limbs were badly damaged thou
Following year was the 1st year when you had to do a full crash test (due to Martins crash) with chassis/nosebox/dummy driver ect
Team knew what was going to happen so even thou the seatback was still a bonded fit it was now a tapered fit and once in position couldnt be pushed out
We passed the FIA test 1st time other teams had multiple failures and caused them multiple problems
The remains of the chassis and 2 wheelie bins full of tine bits of carbon were later assembled in the "chapel" at kett hall,think they can put crash down to human error(not Martins)
The fact that the tub failed was what saved Martins life
Till that point our tubs were made pretty much like every other teams.
When Martin had his crash he had a 1/3 tank of fuel that on the initial moment of impact surged forward and literally ejected Martin out of the car with the seatback still attached to him (The seatbelt fixings were in the seatback)
You can see the pictures of him laying on the track with it still attached, you cant be totally sure but could of saved him from injury to any vital organs but his limbs were badly damaged thou
Following year was the 1st year when you had to do a full crash test (due to Martins crash) with chassis/nosebox/dummy driver ect
Team knew what was going to happen so even thou the seatback was still a bonded fit it was now a tapered fit and once in position couldnt be pushed out
We passed the FIA test 1st time other teams had multiple failures and caused them multiple problems
The remains of the chassis and 2 wheelie bins full of tine bits of carbon were later assembled in the "chapel" at kett hall,think they can put crash down to human error(not Martins)
Edited by f1rob on Saturday 8th November 10:05
Eric Mc said:
Go on - you know you want to
Dear Mr. Saul,I recently read a post on piston heads regarding my involvement with the original Team Lotus.
In your post you question whether I am a fantasist or a con man. You also stated that I was supposed to pay the indebtedness the Team had incurred and to stump up (as you wittingly say) an amount of $500,000., in order to save it from administration.
Your facts are wrong! When I was asked to get involved , the Team was actually in administration and the assets acquired by David Hunt and Kenny Wapshott .
Further I have never heard of Aalco the supposed source of my money .
Should you really want to know why Team Lotus failed , call Bernie Ecclestone or Hazel Chapman or David Hunt and ask them.
Rather than referring to people that you don't know as con men , I would suggest that you get your head out of your ass and learn how to manage your facts.
By the way , I have a complete roster of employees who worked for the Team at Ketteringham Hall and your name doesn't appear on it!
Also should you actually want to know where my money comes from , refer to the Forbes 500 !
In closing , I might suggest that you rephrase your quips about me or you might one day get a nice letter from my attorneys! A posted apology could work ! Finally dept is spelled debt !
Sam Brown
sab4480 said:
Eric Mc said:
Go on - you know you want to
Dear Mr. Saul,I recently read a post on piston heads regarding my involvement with the original Team Lotus.
In your post you question whether I am a fantasist or a con man. You also stated that I was supposed to pay the indebtedness the Team had incurred and to stump up (as you wittingly say) an amount of $500,000., in order to save it from administration.
Your facts are wrong! When I was asked to get involved , the Team was actually in administration and the assets acquired by David Hunt and Kenny Wapshott .
Further I have never heard of Aalco the supposed source of my money .
Should you really want to know why Team Lotus failed , call Bernie Ecclestone or Hazel Chapman or David Hunt and ask them.
Rather than referring to people that you don't know as con men , I would suggest that you get your head out of your ass and learn how to manage your facts.
By the way , I have a complete roster of employees who worked for the Team at Ketteringham Hall and your name doesn't appear on it!
Also should you actually want to know where my money comes from , refer to the Forbes 500 !
In closing , I might suggest that you rephrase your quips about me or you might one day get a nice letter from my attorneys! A posted apology could work ! Finally dept is spelled debt !
Sam Brown
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