Where did it all go wrong for the original Lotus team?
Discussion
Exige77 said:
Would be great to hear more about what really happened
From 1994.F1: Team Lotus bought by Connecticut Businessman ?
Both the Motoring News and Autosport have reported that the
mystery buyer for Team Lotus is Sam Brown, an American who
sold his Connecticut telecommunications business in 1992.
Brown has been a Lotus enthusiast for a number of years.
Acting as agent for Samuel A. Brown, John Godfrey releases the
following news item:
Sam Brown is not the mystery buyer of Team Lotus however he was
introduced through his law firm to Peter Collins, Team Lotus team manager via Fred
Bushell, trustee of the Chapman family interests.
A letter of intent was drawn up between Mr. Collins and Mr. Brown
based on a satisfactory conclusion of due diligence, seeking a
suitable engine supplier, and a continuation of sponsorship.
Mr. Brown would be a majority interest holder in Team Lotus, but
not operationally. Peter Collins would continue as its team
manager and an officer/director and share holder of the new entity.
A final structure has not been decided upon.
Mr. Brown was a driver in the late 60s. He first drove a Lotus
Formula C and a Brabham Formula B; then joined Frank Williams
Racing driving Formula 2 and 3
NEWS RELEASE
For Immediate release
RE: Team Lotus and Sam Brown
From: John J. Godfrey
9 December 1994
As of 7 December, negotiations between the owners of the Team Lotus
assets and Sam Brown were not resolved to allow the continuation of the
Team. There was not enough time between the signing of a letter of
intent by Sam Brown and Peter Collins after the race at Jerez to plug
the holes in the cash flow dam, secure continuing sponsorship for '95,
secure an engine supplier, and maintain the development of the '95 race car.
Mr. Brown had secured an engine supplier that would provide engines
through '96 for Team Lotus. Mr. Brown would have personally guaranteed
this contract. Besides the purchase of the Team assets, Mr. Brown had
indicated in the letter that he would obtain at least $6 million in
additional sponsorship funding for the Team, but these conditions had
to be secured with signed contracts of the current sponsors before Mr.
Brown could proceed.
Regardless, Mr. Brown is still wishes to see that Team Lotus continues
and Peter Collins remains as team manager; also that a year's
sabbatical may result in a firmer financial structure and a better
understanding of the changes to be implemented in '95 to the formula.
John J. Godfrey.
My thoughts would be the timeline went something like this;
Chapman's introduction to David Thieme and his 'interesting' lifestyle.
The rejection of 88B.
Chapman's introduction to John De Lorean and his 'interesting' lifestyle.
Chapman's sad death.
The criminal investigation into the De Lorean affair
The original failure of active suspension.
Peter Warrs intense management style and continuing feud with Mansell.
The same mans poor handling of the Camel sponsorship deal and its effects on Sennas contract.
The hiring of Piquet.
The blame of the poor performance of 100T being blamed on Ducarouge rather than Piquet not giving a s
t and Nakajima being Nakajima.
The hiring of Frank Dernie as chief designer on the recommendation of Piquet.
The truly dreadful Dernie designed Lotus 102, which seemed to have a tendency to have huge accidents and fall apart if looked at wrong.
Constant changes of engines during the 90's which had to be fitted to adopted chassis rather than new cars from the ground up
No major title sponsor for the team that introduced them and despite the car being covered in stickers, not enough funding, therefore not enough development, therefore......The final low point being Phillipe Adams being allowed to pedal a Lotus around Spa.
However, have a look at the last two Lotus and some of those sponsor stickers.
Miller Beer
Tommy Hilfiger
Loctite
Komatsu
Hitachi
Pepe Jeans
Castrol
One would have to question, how much these companies were being charged for the size of the logos because it clearly wasn't enough as funding was obviously not going into development of either talent or the cars? So were the companies not being charged enough or was the funding going somewhere else?
However, I would imagine that a number of current F1 teams would give their back teeth to have those companies ask to be on their cars. A lot of them would probably be happy just to have Tamiya!
It was a huge shame that a team that always thought to be the English Ferrari and produced some of the most beautiful racing cars in history ended in the way it did. They were always my favourite team growing up.
Chapman's introduction to David Thieme and his 'interesting' lifestyle.
The rejection of 88B.
Chapman's introduction to John De Lorean and his 'interesting' lifestyle.
Chapman's sad death.
The criminal investigation into the De Lorean affair
The original failure of active suspension.
Peter Warrs intense management style and continuing feud with Mansell.
The same mans poor handling of the Camel sponsorship deal and its effects on Sennas contract.
The hiring of Piquet.
The blame of the poor performance of 100T being blamed on Ducarouge rather than Piquet not giving a s
t and Nakajima being Nakajima.The hiring of Frank Dernie as chief designer on the recommendation of Piquet.
The truly dreadful Dernie designed Lotus 102, which seemed to have a tendency to have huge accidents and fall apart if looked at wrong.
Constant changes of engines during the 90's which had to be fitted to adopted chassis rather than new cars from the ground up
No major title sponsor for the team that introduced them and despite the car being covered in stickers, not enough funding, therefore not enough development, therefore......The final low point being Phillipe Adams being allowed to pedal a Lotus around Spa.
However, have a look at the last two Lotus and some of those sponsor stickers.
Miller Beer
Tommy Hilfiger
Loctite
Komatsu
Hitachi
Pepe Jeans
Castrol
One would have to question, how much these companies were being charged for the size of the logos because it clearly wasn't enough as funding was obviously not going into development of either talent or the cars? So were the companies not being charged enough or was the funding going somewhere else?
However, I would imagine that a number of current F1 teams would give their back teeth to have those companies ask to be on their cars. A lot of them would probably be happy just to have Tamiya!
It was a huge shame that a team that always thought to be the English Ferrari and produced some of the most beautiful racing cars in history ended in the way it did. They were always my favourite team growing up.
The Hypno-Toad said:
The blame of the poor performance of 100T being blamed on Ducarouge rather than Piquet not giving a st and Nakajima being Nakajima.
JYS test drove the 100T. He said the same thing as Piquet that it was too soft. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOiWlpo_92st and Nakajima being Nakajima.It started to go wrong as soon as Andretti won the Championship in 1978 - although we didn't know it at the time. The Lotus 80 was hopeless and despite occasional flashes of form from Mansell and De Angelis it wasn't until Senna arrived that some proper mojo was restored. But for all the Honda power and Senna talent I felt at the time that they were already outside the bevy of really top teams. Interestingly one could argue that Williams' rise shadowed Lotus' fall.
But as I grew up in the age of the 72 and 79 the image of Lotus will always be a black and gold wedge in a 150mph slide around Woodcote with Ronald Bengt Peterson doing what he did best .By the time Donnelly and Herbert were driving Lotus were midfield no hopers at best and the end was inevitable.
Had ACBC lived who knows ? He would either have galvanised the team - he and Senna would have been an amazing mix- or he would have been involved with something entirely different like planes or boats; or in jail ...
But as I grew up in the age of the 72 and 79 the image of Lotus will always be a black and gold wedge in a 150mph slide around Woodcote with Ronald Bengt Peterson doing what he did best .By the time Donnelly and Herbert were driving Lotus were midfield no hopers at best and the end was inevitable.
Had ACBC lived who knows ? He would either have galvanised the team - he and Senna would have been an amazing mix- or he would have been involved with something entirely different like planes or boats; or in jail ...
gotta love pistonheads the only place you can get billionaires,internet trolls and the spell police all in one !
Thanks for the pm,s guys buy my mothers been ill and I have been at her,s with no access to the web
SO I was never at Team ? Mmmmmm must of been a hell of a dream from 82/95 !
Don't know if billionaires read their own lists ? or have a lackey do it ??? but I suggest you read it yourself !!!
Start at the beginning,almost certainly Steve Allen from accounts (still works for Clive Chapman)
list will end with Nick Yallop (composites)
And you will find me 2/3 of the way through with Jamie Riesbourgh or Suzanne Radbone in front of me and almost certainly Morris Simmonds after me
Now for those interested 94 was certainly the hardest year we ever had at Team,we built 2 separate cars 107c and 109
one day I will put it all down but just to give you an idea what 94 was like...
We were working 7am-9pm mon/fri, 8 hrs on a sat and 6hr on a sunday as a basic week
Through most of the year we weren't being paid on time. At the worst we were owed 12 weeks money
Collins and his fellow con men wouldn't tell you that you weren't getting paid you had to go to the bank and find out for yourself !
They started doing a "loans" system where you had to go and see Collins accountant at Team,plead your case an he would give you a little cash set against your wages when they were eventually paid !
Two moments highlight how we were treated
1st- we were owed 7 or 8 weeks wages and it was Fri and we hadn't been paid again,few of the guys said sod it and lets go to pitch an putt golf after work
Fair enough you think ? but as two of the guys were in the toilets washing their hands (at 5.30 the official leaving off time !!!) the composites manager ,one of Collins biggest cronies happen,d to came in for a pee and asked what they were doing.They told him they werte off to play golf and he just laughed
Next week when he found they did go to play golf they got written warnings for leaving early !!!
2nd-when we were given our "loans" when we weren't paid we were given receipts and the accountant kept one.
we got up to date with wages (or so we were told)but the accountant managed to find some misplaced at the back of the safe.
No problem you think but he just took the money from everyones wages the next pay day-just didn't tell anyone he was doing it,no problem he knew we would find out when we didn't have money in our accounts
And he was surprised people were upset and some had thousands of pounds in bank charges !
We had a company pension where we put in a certain amount and the company7 would do the same.
Pension adviser told us the company wasn't putting in their money so the scheme wasn't working so we would be better doing a personal pension ourselves
Most people started said pension and all the deductions were on our wage slips every month
Wasn't till we had finished we found they made the deductions but kept our money
enough typing for now (god I hate typing !!!)will do sam brown/aalco next week
Thanks for the pm,s guys buy my mothers been ill and I have been at her,s with no access to the web
SO I was never at Team ? Mmmmmm must of been a hell of a dream from 82/95 !
Don't know if billionaires read their own lists ? or have a lackey do it ??? but I suggest you read it yourself !!!
Start at the beginning,almost certainly Steve Allen from accounts (still works for Clive Chapman)
list will end with Nick Yallop (composites)
And you will find me 2/3 of the way through with Jamie Riesbourgh or Suzanne Radbone in front of me and almost certainly Morris Simmonds after me
Now for those interested 94 was certainly the hardest year we ever had at Team,we built 2 separate cars 107c and 109
one day I will put it all down but just to give you an idea what 94 was like...
We were working 7am-9pm mon/fri, 8 hrs on a sat and 6hr on a sunday as a basic week
Through most of the year we weren't being paid on time. At the worst we were owed 12 weeks money
Collins and his fellow con men wouldn't tell you that you weren't getting paid you had to go to the bank and find out for yourself !
They started doing a "loans" system where you had to go and see Collins accountant at Team,plead your case an he would give you a little cash set against your wages when they were eventually paid !
Two moments highlight how we were treated
1st- we were owed 7 or 8 weeks wages and it was Fri and we hadn't been paid again,few of the guys said sod it and lets go to pitch an putt golf after work
Fair enough you think ? but as two of the guys were in the toilets washing their hands (at 5.30 the official leaving off time !!!) the composites manager ,one of Collins biggest cronies happen,d to came in for a pee and asked what they were doing.They told him they werte off to play golf and he just laughed
Next week when he found they did go to play golf they got written warnings for leaving early !!!
2nd-when we were given our "loans" when we weren't paid we were given receipts and the accountant kept one.
we got up to date with wages (or so we were told)but the accountant managed to find some misplaced at the back of the safe.
No problem you think but he just took the money from everyones wages the next pay day-just didn't tell anyone he was doing it,no problem he knew we would find out when we didn't have money in our accounts
And he was surprised people were upset and some had thousands of pounds in bank charges !
We had a company pension where we put in a certain amount and the company7 would do the same.
Pension adviser told us the company wasn't putting in their money so the scheme wasn't working so we would be better doing a personal pension ourselves
Most people started said pension and all the deductions were on our wage slips every month
Wasn't till we had finished we found they made the deductions but kept our money
enough typing for now (god I hate typing !!!)will do sam brown/aalco next week
f1rob said:
gotta love pistonheads the only place you can get billionaires,internet trolls and the spell police all in one !
Thanks for the pm,s guys buy my mothers been ill and I have been at her,s with no access to the web
SO I was never at Team ? Mmmmmm must of been a hell of a dream from 82/95 !
Don't know if billionaires read their own lists ? or have a lackey do it ??? but I suggest you read it yourself !!!
Start at the beginning,almost certainly Steve Allen from accounts (still works for Clive Chapman)
list will end with Nick Yallop (composites)
And you will find me 2/3 of the way through with Jamie Riesbourgh or Suzanne Radbone in front of me and almost certainly Morris Simmonds after me
Now for those interested 94 was certainly the hardest year we ever had at Team,we built 2 separate cars 107c and 109
one day I will put it all down but just to give you an idea what 94 was like...
We were working 7am-9pm mon/fri, 8 hrs on a sat and 6hr on a sunday as a basic week
Through most of the year we weren't being paid on time. At the worst we were owed 12 weeks money
Collins and his fellow con men wouldn't tell you that you weren't getting paid you had to go to the bank and find out for yourself !
They started doing a "loans" system where you had to go and see Collins accountant at Team,plead your case an he would give you a little cash set against your wages when they were eventually paid !
Two moments highlight how we were treated
1st- we were owed 7 or 8 weeks wages and it was Fri and we hadn't been paid again,few of the guys said sod it and lets go to pitch an putt golf after work
Fair enough you think ? but as two of the guys were in the toilets washing their hands (at 5.30 the official leaving off time !!!) the composites manager ,one of Collins biggest cronies happen,d to came in for a pee and asked what they were doing.They told him they werte off to play golf and he just laughed
Next week when he found they did go to play golf they got written warnings for leaving early !!!
2nd-when we were given our "loans" when we weren't paid we were given receipts and the accountant kept one.
we got up to date with wages (or so we were told)but the accountant managed to find some misplaced at the back of the safe.
No problem you think but he just took the money from everyones wages the next pay day-just didn't tell anyone he was doing it,no problem he knew we would find out when we didn't have money in our accounts
And he was surprised people were upset and some had thousands of pounds in bank charges !
We had a company pension where we put in a certain amount and the company7 would do the same.
Pension adviser told us the company wasn't putting in their money so the scheme wasn't working so we would be better doing a personal pension ourselves
Most people started said pension and all the deductions were on our wage slips every month
Wasn't till we had finished we found they made the deductions but kept our money
enough typing for now (god I hate typing !!!)will do sam brown/aalco next week
Over to you mister brown Thanks for the pm,s guys buy my mothers been ill and I have been at her,s with no access to the web
SO I was never at Team ? Mmmmmm must of been a hell of a dream from 82/95 !
Don't know if billionaires read their own lists ? or have a lackey do it ??? but I suggest you read it yourself !!!
Start at the beginning,almost certainly Steve Allen from accounts (still works for Clive Chapman)
list will end with Nick Yallop (composites)
And you will find me 2/3 of the way through with Jamie Riesbourgh or Suzanne Radbone in front of me and almost certainly Morris Simmonds after me
Now for those interested 94 was certainly the hardest year we ever had at Team,we built 2 separate cars 107c and 109
one day I will put it all down but just to give you an idea what 94 was like...
We were working 7am-9pm mon/fri, 8 hrs on a sat and 6hr on a sunday as a basic week
Through most of the year we weren't being paid on time. At the worst we were owed 12 weeks money
Collins and his fellow con men wouldn't tell you that you weren't getting paid you had to go to the bank and find out for yourself !
They started doing a "loans" system where you had to go and see Collins accountant at Team,plead your case an he would give you a little cash set against your wages when they were eventually paid !
Two moments highlight how we were treated
1st- we were owed 7 or 8 weeks wages and it was Fri and we hadn't been paid again,few of the guys said sod it and lets go to pitch an putt golf after work
Fair enough you think ? but as two of the guys were in the toilets washing their hands (at 5.30 the official leaving off time !!!) the composites manager ,one of Collins biggest cronies happen,d to came in for a pee and asked what they were doing.They told him they werte off to play golf and he just laughed
Next week when he found they did go to play golf they got written warnings for leaving early !!!
2nd-when we were given our "loans" when we weren't paid we were given receipts and the accountant kept one.
we got up to date with wages (or so we were told)but the accountant managed to find some misplaced at the back of the safe.
No problem you think but he just took the money from everyones wages the next pay day-just didn't tell anyone he was doing it,no problem he knew we would find out when we didn't have money in our accounts
And he was surprised people were upset and some had thousands of pounds in bank charges !
We had a company pension where we put in a certain amount and the company7 would do the same.
Pension adviser told us the company wasn't putting in their money so the scheme wasn't working so we would be better doing a personal pension ourselves
Most people started said pension and all the deductions were on our wage slips every month
Wasn't till we had finished we found they made the deductions but kept our money
enough typing for now (god I hate typing !!!)will do sam brown/aalco next week
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