role of f1 in the evolution of the motorcar

[70proof]

son is doing a HPQ and that is the title of his project... or put another way, F1 is the testing ground for future automobile tech....

honda introduced 4 valves per cylinder in f1 first, then it became commonplace
kers ?superseeded brake energy regen systems, but did one evolve to the other...

can we give examples please, thanks, where defo f1 was the testing ground or first deployment for tech, which then made it to road cars, and this can be for any part including tyres.... i've done quite a list with my son but keen to explore here and expand. thanks

[Eric Mc]

To be honest, there are very few examples of technology pioneered in F1 that has found its way to ordinary road cars. If anything, it works more frequently the other way round.

A better opportunity might be afforded to state this case by looking at motorsport in general - rather than Formula 1 (or Grand Prix racing - don't forget F1 only covers Grand Prix racing from 1948 to the present - with two missing years i.e. 1952 and 1953. There was also pre WW1 and WW2 Grand Prix racing).

I did a similar exercise back in 1995 for a GCSE course and found very few examples where road car technology had benefited hugely from F1/Grand Prix/Motor Sport technology.

[AW111]

I think sports car / endurance racing may have some things to offer, although early years there was less of a split between them and f1.

Jaguar disk brakes? C-type I think.
Not tge first disk brake, but the first "modern" design.

[RobGT81]

Toyota were racing with KERS before F1 started using it.

[davepen]

70proof said:

honda introduced 4 valves per cylinder in f1 first

Possibly not the best example....

Peugeot used it in GP racing in 1912/3.
Common in 20's and 30's GP cars.
I think Bugatti tried most arrangements.
Even used in the vintage Bentley but with a single cam.

The Cosworth/Ford V8 3-litre was even called a DFV. (Double Four Valve)

I would have said something like the Golf GTI 16v was more responsible, than a F1 engine, for it becoming common place.

[Pixelpeep7r]

Flappy paddle gearboxes ?

Carbon fibre?

Diffusers ?

[Eric Mc]

Pixelpeep7r said:

Flappy paddle gearboxes ?

Carbon fibre?

Diffusers ?

How many normal family cars use flappy paddles?

Carbon fibre is used rarely in road cars and it came from aerospace originally.

Again, not many road cars need or use diffusers.

In motor sport, the great god is "downforce". For normal road cars, the god is aerodynamic efficiency - which leads to better fuel efficiency. Downforce tends to create drag and works against the principle of "cleaner" aerodynamics.

[Pixelpeep7r]

Eric Mc said:

Pixelpeep7r said:

Flappy paddle gearboxes ?

Carbon fibre?

Diffusers ?

How many normal family cars use flappy paddles?

Carbon fibre is used rarely in road cars and it came from aerospace originally.

My 5 door golf has flappy paddles. - regardless of how many use it, it's still something thats derived from F1 - which is what the OP asked for.

Carbon may have originated in aerospace but its practical use for the road wouldn't have been known without the F1 development of it. again, regardless of how many use it, it's still something thats derived from F1 - which is what the OP asked for.

Eric Mc said:

Again, not many road cars need or use diffusers.

Regardless of how many use it, it's still something thats derived from F1 - which is what the OP asked for.

[RichB]

Eric Mc said:

How many normal family cars use flappy paddles?.

Quite a lot I'd say these days. Even my latest Volvo V70 estate was delivered with flappy paddles behind the steering wheel - I never use them though

I'd say broaden the scope to consider motor sport in general rather than restrict it to F1.
- Tyres
- Brakes (Disc or otherwise but improvements in brake lining and pad compounds
- Suspension, double parallel wishbones were the result of motor racing
- Mid Engine/rear engine is an obvious one. Again hard to pin it on one individual but the way Cooper pioneered it in the late 50s/early 60s led to a revolution

[70proof]

Eric Mc said:

To be honest, there are very few examples of technology pioneered in F1 that has found its way to ordinary road cars. If anything, it works more frequently the other way round.

A better opportunity might be afforded to state this case by looking at motorsport in general - rather than Formula 1 (or Grand Prix racing - don't forget F1 only covers Grand Prix racing from 1948 to the present - with two missing years i.e. 1952 and 1953. There was also pre WW1 and WW2 Grand Prix racing).

I did a similar exercise back in 1995 for a GCSE course and found very few examples where road car technology had benefited hugely from F1/Grand Prix/Motor Sport technology.

interesting....in the olden days, one could count say 10 of 16 race results, so braking down was almost permissable....... surely that encouraged a sense of adventure amongst the teams/engine manufacturers, esp with all the money involved...

look at it another way then, it might not have been invented in f1, but f1 was a testbed for it...

re 16v engines, the first mainstream car was the honda integra ex16i, i know, i persuaded my dad to get one as a result, then came the other hot hatches/saloons.... where was fuel injection developed... agree that endurance racing may be the sport it all happened...

[70proof]

what about oils and fuels - synthetic oils? shell v power?

is the modern supercar more reliable because of f1?

[Eric Mc]

There has to be some spreading of knowledge from any branch of automotive, aerospace and petro-chemical research.

Trying to pick specific advancements that came directly from F1 into ordinary run of the mill cars is actually very difficult - as I found out when I tried a similar exercise as your son.

[Scuffers]

Pixelpeep7r said:

Flappy paddle gearboxes ?

Carbon fibre?

Diffusers ?

flappy paddles:

1901, Le Mans (France) - The brilliant inventor Amedé Bollée (son of the Amédée-Ernest Bollée) developed a novel method of driving assistance; a circle of aluminum at the centre of the steering wheel to shift up and down four gears without a clutch. This entirely mechanical system can be seen in the Bollée Type F Torpédo of 1912 on display at the "Musée Automobile de la Sarthe".

Diffusers - not sure about this one, I think sports cars used them first though...

Carbon - Aerospace used first.

[carinaman]

The late LJKS did a piece in CAR Magazine in the late 90s. It was the time that Villeneuve and Hill were in that Williams. The thrust of his article was that F1 was way behind road car technology. I think the article said that when Williams needed a motor for something, they used a Honda part used on the NSX.

[TheConverted]

I might be wrong but weren't traction control and ESP systems first introduced in F1? and then trickled down to road cars.

[Scuffers]

TheConverted said:

I might be wrong but weren't traction control and ESP systems first introduced in F1? and then trickled down to road cars.

ABS was first developed for aircraft use in 1929 by the French automobile and aircraft pioneer Gabriel Voisin

ESP is a little harder to pin down, as it depends on what you want to call it.

Merc put it on the S class in the mid 90's,

[TheConverted]

Scuffers said:

TheConverted said:

I might be wrong but weren't traction control and ESP systems first introduced in F1? and then trickled down to road cars.

ABS was first developed for aircraft use in 1929 by the French automobile and aircraft pioneer Gabriel Voisin

ESP is a little harder to pin down, as it depends on what you want to call it.

Merc put it on the S class in the mid 90's,

I knew ABS was and aircraft development.

Maybe it wasn't the origins but there was a lot of development of TCS ,ESP and launch control in F1. which would allowed it to be a more useful system on a road car?

what about the Mid engine layout in it modern form?

interesting thread though, you would think it was the other way round and F1 tech lead the way.

[Scuffers]

F1 is way too specific and regulated to be of much use.

Sportscar racing is a better candidate (or was).

[Encantada]

OP does day testing ground as well, so not just the original. But a place to refine before being cascaded to normal motoring.
I think items like carbon fibre, flappy paddles and fuel/oils probably have a place in the list.....


K.

[davepen]

70proof said:

re 16v engines, the first mainstream car was the honda integra ex16i, i know...

Oh well, my parents had a series of MKII Jaguars in the 1970's. Mainstream DOHC technology from the 50/60's.

Fuel injection was on some (German) WWII planes, and on Jaguars at LeMans in the 50's

I'd say F1 is a fast follower/adopter of technology available elsewhere. The design requirements of F1 (fast in low volume, one season, service life of 200 miles or 2hours - or now 4 races ~ 800 miles) are different to road cars - safe in high volume, multi year production, 10 year life, reliable for 100,000 miles. So technology in planes or trucks (Turbo's and KERS) can be made smaller, lighter and used in F1; and then re-engineered for road cars.

Would the Thinwall special (Vanwall GP Cars) be a good example of the power of GP racing in advertising?