**** Abu Dhabi Grand Prix **** (contains spoilers)
Discussion
Jonsnow606 said:
Lewis had an advantage over his team mate this season because he was QUICKER than his team mate, not because he used 0.5 less litre of fuel over the course of each race.
Actually, yes it is to some extent..He was able to use less fuel running at the same pace, thus he had the ability to run either faster on the extra fuel or run lighter and thus faster because i didn't need to carry the extra fuel.
Dr Z said:
...the fact that Hamilton's driving style enabling him to use much less fuel than Rosberg (and hence giving him an advantage over his team mate), makes Hamilton a less worthy WDC this year...
Some people will never give the guy any credit. Despite having a team mate who was allowed to push (i.e. actually race unlike Red Bull) him to within an inch of his car. Some goon will still try to discredit his achievements. Quite pathetic really, but sadly to be expected on Pistonheads these days. 
RichB said:
rofl: Some people will never give the guy any credit. Despite having a team mate who was allowed to push (i.e. actually race unlike Red Bull) him to within an inch of his car. Some goon will still try to discredit his achievements. Quite pathetic really, but sadly to be expected on Pistonheads these days.
Didn't he almost win it in his first season?. The lad has matured into a fantastic racing driver for some reason this will never be enough for a few people but the way he started Sunday's race was telling the lad is a winner.RichB said:
Dr Z said:
...the fact that Hamilton's driving style enabling him to use much less fuel than Rosberg (and hence giving him an advantage over his team mate), makes Hamilton a less worthy WDC this year...
Some people will never give the guy any credit. Despite having a team mate who was allowed to push (i.e. actually race unlike Red Bull) him to within an inch of his car. Some goon will still try to discredit his achievements. Quite pathetic really, but sadly to be expected on Pistonheads these days. Thus Lewis didn't really win; he somehow lucked it.
You guys are all much better at retaining the details than me. But the biggest factor that undermines Seb was Horner's fawning over him and the total commitment to him as no1 driver despite sometimes denying it (while taking parts off Marks car to keep Seb in the latest kit etc).
But, whichever way you look at it, he did deliver when he was given a dominant car. Yes it would be better if there was competition in the team but he did still deliver. Perhaps we need to start giving these guys some credit for even getting themselves into the right team to get a shot at winning.
I've been very frustrated over the last few years at McLarens determined efforts to self destruct (added to Lewis's year of particularly bad focus). I genuinely feared that the best racer in F1 was going to end his career on 1 WDC when he had the talent to win many more. Seemed such a brave call to move to Merc but we should credit that he had an even better view of the McLaren shambles then we did. To win this WDC, Lewis had to change team, learn to drive the new type of car and beat a very good team mate who had equal standing in the team. A lot of long term planning, clever tactics and strategy, and great driving all have to come together to bag the WDC. Perhaps Seb deserves a bit more credit for all the factors that have to come together to win. It's really disappointing that he has struggled so much this year as it fuels the argument (although doesn't prove it) that he is a good driver but not one of the best.
But, whichever way you look at it, he did deliver when he was given a dominant car. Yes it would be better if there was competition in the team but he did still deliver. Perhaps we need to start giving these guys some credit for even getting themselves into the right team to get a shot at winning.
I've been very frustrated over the last few years at McLarens determined efforts to self destruct (added to Lewis's year of particularly bad focus). I genuinely feared that the best racer in F1 was going to end his career on 1 WDC when he had the talent to win many more. Seemed such a brave call to move to Merc but we should credit that he had an even better view of the McLaren shambles then we did. To win this WDC, Lewis had to change team, learn to drive the new type of car and beat a very good team mate who had equal standing in the team. A lot of long term planning, clever tactics and strategy, and great driving all have to come together to bag the WDC. Perhaps Seb deserves a bit more credit for all the factors that have to come together to win. It's really disappointing that he has struggled so much this year as it fuels the argument (although doesn't prove it) that he is a good driver but not one of the best.
JonRB said:
RichB said:
Dr Z said:
...the fact that Hamilton's driving style enabling him to use much less fuel than Rosberg (and hence giving him an advantage over his team mate), makes Hamilton a less worthy WDC this year...
Some people will never give the guy any credit. Despite having a team mate who was allowed to push (i.e. actually race unlike Red Bull) him to within an inch of his car. Some goon will still try to discredit his achievements. Quite pathetic really, but sadly to be expected on Pistonheads these days. Thus Lewis didn't really win; he somehow lucked it.
Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
Dr Z said:
Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
Fanboyism. I'm not a fanboy. However it is patently obvious that the reason for this is that Lewis has had a longer career decorated with many wins and two championships for two different teams in two very different cars. Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
Vettel has proved that he was worthy of four championships but as he has had a shorter career with effectively 'one team' (Torro Rosso being very closely linked to RB) and is yet to show that he can master every car he's given... certainly this year his less experienced team-mate has adjusted the way people think of Vettel.
It's unlikely to be a 'style' that allows LH to use less fuel in a race. It is a tactic, one that is open to NR to follow. He sets the car up for lower consumption and drives it in a manner that sucks up less. NR could do this if he wanted. It is a seductive MO: using less fuel means carrying less fuel, which lowers fuel consumption. A benevolent circle.
It would seem to me that the LH set-up is not conducive to qualifying speeds. It is better for the race. He can outbrake NR in an identical car.
The reasons that NR chooses a different set-up, and from what we've been told he will have access to all details of LH's car, and he has of NR's, is down to him. He seems to want pole. This is a sensible tactic for some circuits but not so much of an advantage at others.
NR's tactic might carry a greater advantage next season if the other teams are closer in race speed. Then LH will have to make a choice. As it is, the results would suggest he picked the right way to go this season.
It would seem to me that the LH set-up is not conducive to qualifying speeds. It is better for the race. He can outbrake NR in an identical car.
The reasons that NR chooses a different set-up, and from what we've been told he will have access to all details of LH's car, and he has of NR's, is down to him. He seems to want pole. This is a sensible tactic for some circuits but not so much of an advantage at others.
NR's tactic might carry a greater advantage next season if the other teams are closer in race speed. Then LH will have to make a choice. As it is, the results would suggest he picked the right way to go this season.
Dr Z said:
How ironic! The point I was making clearly illustrates the anti-Vettel bias here, and the sensitive moonies who get upset at the slightest hint of questioning the ability of Hamilton only prove the point.
Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
I admire both drivers. But, Hamilton won his titles with two totally different machines.Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
Dr Z said:
Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
I agree. Vettel also won in a Torro Rossa with an exceptional drive. Did that have a blown diffuser, I can't remember? He's definitely had an off season, but I still think he's one of the best on the grid. Next year will tell.Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
BritishRacinGrin said:
Certainly this year his less experienced team-mate has adjusted the way people think of Vettel.
Agree to a point but you also have Kimi not doing well. It may just take them a little longer to adjust to this kind of machine. Perhaps next year will be different, time will tell.Dr Z said:
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Minor point but Lewis and Nico have different styles and both were successful in the same car, Lewis slightly more so.The constant down-play of Seb's skill is silly too. He's a racer and incredibly skilled - look at the wheel-to-wheel stuff between him and Webber, dices with Alonso at Monza... He's got skill and bravery to go with it. Yes he had a great car to win with. So did Lewis. So did Jenson. They're all incredibly skilled and worth their championships.
IainT said:
Minor point but Lewis and Nico have different styles and both were successful in the same car, Lewis slightly more so.
The constant down-play of Seb's skill is silly too. He's a racer and incredibly skilled - look at the wheel-to-wheel stuff between him and Webber, dices with Alonso at Monza... He's got skill and bravery to go with it. Yes he had a great car to win with. So did Lewis. So did Jenson. They're all incredibly skilled and worth their championships.
well said. The constant down-play of Seb's skill is silly too. He's a racer and incredibly skilled - look at the wheel-to-wheel stuff between him and Webber, dices with Alonso at Monza... He's got skill and bravery to go with it. Yes he had a great car to win with. So did Lewis. So did Jenson. They're all incredibly skilled and worth their championships.
VladD said:
Vettel //
He's definitely had an off season, but I still think he's one of the best on the grid.
DC said something at the weekend that struck me.. Although I wasn't sure if he was hinting or just throwing it out there..He's definitely had an off season, but I still think he's one of the best on the grid.
Talking about FA and SV moving teams, in short he said that they must have performance clauses written into their contracts to get out when they have, and that performance can be influenced by the driver...
Piers_K said:
VladD said:
Vettel //
He's definitely had an off season, but I still think he's one of the best on the grid.
DC said something at the weekend that struck me.. Although I wasn't sure if he was hinting or just throwing it out there..He's definitely had an off season, but I still think he's one of the best on the grid.
Talking about FA and SV moving teams, in short he said that they must have performance clauses written into their contracts to get out when they have, and that performance can be influenced by the driver...
VladD said:
Piers_K said:
VladD said:
Vettel //
He's definitely had an off season, but I still think he's one of the best on the grid.
DC said something at the weekend that struck me.. Although I wasn't sure if he was hinting or just throwing it out there..He's definitely had an off season, but I still think he's one of the best on the grid.
Talking about FA and SV moving teams, in short he said that they must have performance clauses written into their contracts to get out when they have, and that performance can be influenced by the driver...
RichB said:
Dr Z said:
...the fact that Hamilton's driving style enabling him to use much less fuel than Rosberg (and hence giving him an advantage over his team mate), makes Hamilton a less worthy WDC this year...
Some people will never give the guy any credit. Despite having a team mate who was allowed to push (i.e. actually race unlike Red Bull) him to within an inch of his car. Some goon will still try to discredit his achievements. Quite pathetic really, but sadly to be expected on Pistonheads these days. Dr Z is arguing that LH's efficient driving style, where he is both faster AND uses less fuel than his teammate ( and so can be faster for longer without having to fuel save ) is a bad thing?
Bizarre logic. Hell no, its not bizarre - its just wrong !
Tyre Tread said:
VladD said:
Piers_K said:
VladD said:
Vettel //
He's definitely had an off season, but I still think he's one of the best on the grid.
DC said something at the weekend that struck me.. Although I wasn't sure if he was hinting or just throwing it out there..He's definitely had an off season, but I still think he's one of the best on the grid.
Talking about FA and SV moving teams, in short he said that they must have performance clauses written into their contracts to get out when they have, and that performance can be influenced by the driver...
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