Rosberg vs. Schumacher 2010-2012
Discussion
MarcusFenix1000 said:
jsf said:
You don't even need to look outside F1 or motorsport in general.
Juan Manuel Fangio, born june 1911, active GP years 1950 - 1958
Formula one in those days was a bunch of rich amateurs, nothing more.Juan Manuel Fangio, born june 1911, active GP years 1950 - 1958
Congrats on what may be the daftest reply in PH history; and you've only just started posting!
But in all honesty; threads get derailed and to clarify; I think the MS comeback showed just how good Rosberg really is - but also; how mortal MS is. Simple as that.
LDN said:
The thread is about 2010 - 2012. Where he was shown up. For whatever reason; that's how it is. You agree with that 
Sorted.
Everytime I debunk your propoganda such as: Sorted.Schumacher didn't win a world championship without traction control
Schumacher had traction control from 94-2000 (I'm still laughing about that)
Schumacher only won because of bespoke tyres
You fail to address the points I make. Instead, you come back with something such as the quote above.
MarcusFenix1000 said:
LDN said:
The thread is about 2010 - 2012. Where he was shown up. For whatever reason; that's how it is. You agree with that Sorted.
Everytime I debunk your propoganda such as: Sorted.Schumacher didn't win a world championship without traction control
Schumacher had traction control from 94-2000 (I'm still laughing about that)
Schumacher only won because of bespoke tyres
You fail to address the points I make. Instead, you come back with something such as the quote above.
Traction control; it was a debate on some Sky / or BBC show yonks ago that he lent on TC; like SV does on Aero. Not much more I can say on that. There was rumours of TC buried inside car menus. It's true; google it.
As well, let's talk of testing. MS hated the testing ban - he needed time to just hone and hone and hone. that's fine; but in his rawest form; he couldn't match the new breed who were able to jump in and go.
You don't address my points re' MS but I won't press you
ANYWAY... Fangio: amateur? Explain yourself!
LDN said:
Fangio: amateur?
Congrats on what may be the daftest reply in PH history; and you've only just started posting!
But in all honesty; threads get derailed and to clarify; I think the MS comeback showed just how good Rosberg really is - but also; how mortal MS is. Simple as that.
Coming from someone who claimed that Schumacher didn't win a wolrd championship without traction control and then that he had traction control from 1994-2000, I don't think it would even get an award for "daftest" post of the day, never mind all time.Congrats on what may be the daftest reply in PH history; and you've only just started posting!
But in all honesty; threads get derailed and to clarify; I think the MS comeback showed just how good Rosberg really is - but also; how mortal MS is. Simple as that.
It's well known that F1 was full of wealthy amateurs in the 1950's and Fangio did not start in F1 until he was 37 and he was hardly an athletic man. I'm not saying that he was not good in his time because clearly he was when you look back at the history books (I never saw him race as I'm sure most people posting here haven't).
But I don't think anyone could say that he would do as well if that very same 37 year old stepped into a Formula 1 car of today.
LDN said:
There was rumours of TC buried inside car menus. It's true; google it.
I know there was... in 1994 based upon what Senna said after crashing out of the Pacific GP.Those rumours where then fanned somewhat by the good start that Schumacher made at the start of the French GP. But what about the Brazilian, German and European GP's where he lost places at the start?
Something else to consider is that Spa 94 was wet qualifying and he was outqualified by a Jordon. Suzuka 94, Schumacher had a poor race in very heavy rain. These are both tracks where he excelled and did well in the rain later in his career. If Schumacher did have traction control in 94, why did he not do well when it rained? If he did have traction control (and the others didn't) he would've won easily but he didn't.
MarcusFenix1000 said:
If he did have traction control (and the others didn't) he would've won easily but he didn't.
Not if other parts of the equation were lacking... We don't have to talk about his demands for status and unfair data share clauses and tyres and testing and so on and so forth if you don't want to. The thread is about his comeback; which we agree on. It was never going to go well; and it didn't. Like I said; personally; I see him as 'a' great but simply put; the records do not paint the whole picture.
LDN said:
As well, let's talk of testing. MS hated the testing ban - he needed time to just hone and hone and hone. that's fine; but in his rawest form; he couldn't match the new breed who were able to jump in and go.
He was more concerned about developing the car. He was getting motion sickness in the simulators - technology moved on quite a bit when he left.He could jump in and go. Eddie Irvine has said he wasn't a good test driver because of this. Like Ronnie Peterson he drives round the car's problems so the system devised at Ferrari was to set a banker lap which became a marker to correlate with after adjustments or modifications whereas normally in testing you drive in a consistant manner.
LDN said:
Not if other parts of the equation were lacking...
We don't have to talk about his demands for status and unfair data share clauses and tyres and testing and so on and so forth if you don't want to. The thread is about his comeback; which we agree on. It was never going to go well; and it didn't. Like I said; personally; I see him as 'a' great but simply put; the records do not paint the whole picture.
The whole "data share" argument is a rumour built on the back of something that a disgruntled Johnny Herbet said after his contract wasn't renewed at Benetton. But when you look back at the 95 season, Schumacher owned Herbet, he was pretty much a second per lap quicker than him throughout the entire season.We don't have to talk about his demands for status and unfair data share clauses and tyres and testing and so on and so forth if you don't want to. The thread is about his comeback; which we agree on. It was never going to go well; and it didn't. Like I said; personally; I see him as 'a' great but simply put; the records do not paint the whole picture.
Upon his retirement from F1 some 5 years later, Herbet was still bitter, describing Schumacher as a "rotten egg"
I kid you not.MarcusFenix1000 said:
jsf said:
You don't even need to look outside F1 or motorsport in general.
Juan Manuel Fangio, born june 1911, active GP years 1950 - 1958
And are you telling me that if Juan Manuel Fangio were to jump into a time machine, he would step into a modern F1 car and see similar results? He would have to lose a few pounds before he could even fit in one. Formula one in those days was a bunch of rich amateurs, nothing more.Juan Manuel Fangio, born june 1911, active GP years 1950 - 1958
jsf said:
I won 2 car sprint championships this year, age 49. 
Perhaps Ron Dennis and everyone else at Woking were deliberating over the wrong drivers then. MarcusFenix1000 said:
LDN said:
Not if other parts of the equation were lacking...
We don't have to talk about his demands for status and unfair data share clauses and tyres and testing and so on and so forth if you don't want to. The thread is about his comeback; which we agree on. It was never going to go well; and it didn't. Like I said; personally; I see him as 'a' great but simply put; the records do not paint the whole picture.
The whole "data share" argument is a rumour built on the back of something that a disgruntled Johnny Herbet said after his contract wasn't renewed at Benetton. But when you look back at the 95 season, Schumacher owned Herbet, he was pretty much a second per lap quicker than him throughout the entire season.We don't have to talk about his demands for status and unfair data share clauses and tyres and testing and so on and so forth if you don't want to. The thread is about his comeback; which we agree on. It was never going to go well; and it didn't. Like I said; personally; I see him as 'a' great but simply put; the records do not paint the whole picture.
Upon his retirement from F1 some 5 years later, Herbet was still bitter, describing Schumacher as a "rotten egg"
I kid you not.jsf said:
MarcusFenix1000 said:
jsf said:
You don't even need to look outside F1 or motorsport in general.
Juan Manuel Fangio, born june 1911, active GP years 1950 - 1958
And are you telling me that if Juan Manuel Fangio were to jump into a time machine, he would step into a modern F1 car and see similar results? He would have to lose a few pounds before he could even fit in one. Formula one in those days was a bunch of rich amateurs, nothing more.Juan Manuel Fangio, born june 1911, active GP years 1950 - 1958
jsf said:
I won 2 car sprint championships this year, age 49.
Perhaps Ron Dennis and everyone else at Woking were deliberating over the wrong drivers then. Only joking Fenix; it's been good debating with you
LDN said:
The data share 'thing' is more than just what Herbert said. It's a known fact; it's not even something that he's hidden! However, we can safely assume Herbert was never going to be on a par with MS no matter what.
How is it a fact? Do a Rafa and give me some proof of these "facts" 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaZYhTd2BU
LDN said:
MarcusFenix1000 said:
LDN said:
The thread is about 2010 - 2012. Where he was shown up. For whatever reason; that's how it is. You agree with that Sorted.
Everytime I debunk your propoganda such as: Sorted.Schumacher didn't win a world championship without traction control
Schumacher had traction control from 94-2000 (I'm still laughing about that)
Schumacher only won because of bespoke tyres
You fail to address the points I make. Instead, you come back with something such as the quote above.
Traction control; it was a debate on some Sky / or BBC show yonks ago that he lent on TC; like SV does on Aero. Not much more I can say on that. There was rumours of TC buried inside car menus. It's true; google it.
As well, let's talk of testing. MS hated the testing ban - he needed time to just hone and hone and hone. that's fine; but in his rawest form; he couldn't match the new breed who were able to jump in and go.
You don't address my points re' MS but I won't press you
ANYWAY... Fangio: amateur? Explain yourself!
A) he was 41 years old
B) he had just come out of retirement
C) He had a neck injury so was not at full fitness
D) It takes time to build up a working relationship with engineers etc.
Honestly, ask Hamilton etc to retire for 3 years even NOW at the age of 29 and ask him to come back in 2018 and see how he fares against the oppoistion. His own lustre will wane very quickly.
Schermerhorn said:
LDN said:
MarcusFenix1000 said:
LDN said:
The thread is about 2010 - 2012. Where he was shown up. For whatever reason; that's how it is. You agree with that Sorted.
Everytime I debunk your propoganda such as: Sorted.Schumacher didn't win a world championship without traction control
Schumacher had traction control from 94-2000 (I'm still laughing about that)
Schumacher only won because of bespoke tyres
You fail to address the points I make. Instead, you come back with something such as the quote above.
Traction control; it was a debate on some Sky / or BBC show yonks ago that he lent on TC; like SV does on Aero. Not much more I can say on that. There was rumours of TC buried inside car menus. It's true; google it.
As well, let's talk of testing. MS hated the testing ban - he needed time to just hone and hone and hone. that's fine; but in his rawest form; he couldn't match the new breed who were able to jump in and go.
You don't address my points re' MS but I won't press you
ANYWAY... Fangio: amateur? Explain yourself!
A) he was 41 years old
B) he had just come out of retirement
C) He had a neck injury so was not at full fitness
D) It takes time to build up a working relationship with engineers etc.
Honestly, ask Hamilton etc to retire for 3 years even NOW at the age of 29 and ask him to come back in 2018 and see how he fares against the oppoistion. His own lustre will wane very quickly.
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