Bernie. Engines. Again.
Discussion
Bernie has the succession planning all "planned" out, she has been his right hand lass for the last 15 yrs.
CVC, well Donald, wants a "professional" Manager in. A safe pair of Corporate hands that can delivery F1 to the stock market and they make a s
tload more cash. Bernie has made CVC billions in any currency you like in the last decade. Billions. He has access that arguably nobody outside the Queen and the President of the US (individually for a max 8 yrs at a time only of course) has.
Donald wants Bernie either gone soon or his legal troubles over soon...he doesn't give a st which comes first. He has a two yr window to delivery F1 to the stock market at maximum value.
GP racing is a business. It has always been a business. From the very first race. Fans and parka jacket wearing enthusiasts are irrelevant. They always have been, they always will be.
CVC, well Donald, wants a "professional" Manager in. A safe pair of Corporate hands that can delivery F1 to the stock market and they make a s
tload more cash. Bernie has made CVC billions in any currency you like in the last decade. Billions. He has access that arguably nobody outside the Queen and the President of the US (individually for a max 8 yrs at a time only of course) has. Donald wants Bernie either gone soon or his legal troubles over soon...he doesn't give a s
t which comes first. He has a two yr window to delivery F1 to the stock market at maximum value.GP racing is a business. It has always been a business. From the very first race. Fans and parka jacket wearing enthusiasts are irrelevant. They always have been, they always will be.
DJRC said:
Bernie has the succession planning all "planned" out, she has been his right hand lass for the last 15 yrs.
CVC, well Donald, wants a "professional" Manager in. A safe pair of Corporate hands that can delivery F1 to the stock market and they make a stload more cash. Bernie has made CVC billions in any currency you like in the last decade. Billions. He has access that arguably nobody outside the Queen and the President of the US (individually for a max 8 yrs at a time only of course) has.
Donald wants Bernie either gone soon or his legal troubles over soon...he doesn't give a st which comes first. He has a two yr window to delivery F1 to the stock market at maximum value.
GP racing is a business. It has always been a business. From the very first race. Fans and parka jacket wearing enthusiasts are irrelevant. They always have been, they always will be.
Virginia Della Mura? ...i know why CVC would want someone else CVC, well Donald, wants a "professional" Manager in. A safe pair of Corporate hands that can delivery F1 to the stock market and they make a s
tload more cash. Bernie has made CVC billions in any currency you like in the last decade. Billions. He has access that arguably nobody outside the Queen and the President of the US (individually for a max 8 yrs at a time only of course) has. Donald wants Bernie either gone soon or his legal troubles over soon...he doesn't give a s
t which comes first. He has a two yr window to delivery F1 to the stock market at maximum value.GP racing is a business. It has always been a business. From the very first race. Fans and parka jacket wearing enthusiasts are irrelevant. They always have been, they always will be.
DJRC said:
He has access that arguably nobody outside the Queen and the President of the US (individually for a max 8 yrs at a time only of course) has.
Mind you many of the countries he has acess are those where you might not want access and/or who might not have similar bribery and corruption laws to the UK!Chrisgr31 said:
DJRC said:
He has access that arguably nobody outside the Queen and the President of the US (individually for a max 8 yrs at a time only of course) has.
Mind you many of the countries he has acess are those where you might not want access and/or who might not have similar bribery and corruption laws to the UK!Ecclestone wants out. He wants to get out on his 'terms'. I'm not sure his desires are identical to those of CVC. I'm not sure they are those of the teams, the drivers, the fans, those who have invested heavily in the circuits, or those who just want the sport to continue.
Well it looks like the non-Mercedes teams have got their wish and may develop their engines throughout 2015. The only exception is Honda who must homologate theirs before the start of the season.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117259
"Formula 1's current manufacturers will now be allowed to develop their engines during the 2015 season, after the FIA accepted there was a loophole in the regulations.
Mercedes' rivals Ferrari and Renault pushed hard in late-2014 for F1's engine freeze to be eased to give them more time to introduce much-needed upgrades, rather than having to complete all changes to a pre-season deadline."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117259
"Formula 1's current manufacturers will now be allowed to develop their engines during the 2015 season, after the FIA accepted there was a loophole in the regulations.
Mercedes' rivals Ferrari and Renault pushed hard in late-2014 for F1's engine freeze to be eased to give them more time to introduce much-needed upgrades, rather than having to complete all changes to a pre-season deadline."
So instead of updating before the season they can introduce them as they go along, but can't do more than they would be allowed to do had they actually specified the date as before the first race? Have I read the article correctly for that?
Seems harsh on Honda if that is not the case, but if my interpretation is right I guess they can't complain too much about it.
Seems harsh on Honda if that is not the case, but if my interpretation is right I guess they can't complain too much about it.
DanielSan said:
This can only be a positive for the season imo. At least it should help stop a complete domination by one car.
I'm not sure I see it making any difference, Mercedes have exactly the same number of tokens and apparently have already found 60-70bhp more than they had. Diminishing returns may be a factor but I suspect they may be a couple of years away (if the regs don't change before then).andyps said:
I'm not sure I see it making any difference, Mercedes have exactly the same number of tokens and apparently have already found 60-70bhp more than they had. Diminishing returns may be a factor but I suspect they may be a couple of years away (if the regs don't change before then).
That's my reading of the situation as well. The 'advantage' of the Merc engine is more to do with fundamental design basics. I don't think that can be overcome by a few tweaks of the Renault engine. Mind you, Merc suffered with reliability to an extent last season so I would assume they would be reluctant to push to extremes.
autosport said:
The interpretation that allows Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault to bring in developments over the course of 2015 will not apply to Honda because it is a new manufacturer.
Although the regulations do not specifically state dates for the Japanese car maker to submit its homologated unit, the FIA is standing by its view that it must stick to the February 28 date that the current manufacturers faced last year.
The Whiting note added: "As the existing manufacturers were obliged to homologate their power units by 28 February 2014 it would seem fair and equitable to ask a new manufacturer to homologate their power unit before February 28 2015.
"We therefore consider this to be a requirement for a new power unit manufacturer."
Based on that if I were Honda I would be telling the FIA they can prefer whatever they want, the rules don't state a time, so we will homologate the engine when it suits us. After all, the new interpretation for the other teams is because the rules don't state a time either.Although the regulations do not specifically state dates for the Japanese car maker to submit its homologated unit, the FIA is standing by its view that it must stick to the February 28 date that the current manufacturers faced last year.
The Whiting note added: "As the existing manufacturers were obliged to homologate their power units by 28 February 2014 it would seem fair and equitable to ask a new manufacturer to homologate their power unit before February 28 2015.
"We therefore consider this to be a requirement for a new power unit manufacturer."
jsf said:
Based on that if I were Honda I would be telling the FIA they can prefer whatever they want, the rules don't state a time, so we will homologate the engine when it suits us. After all, the new interpretation for the other teams is because the rules don't state a time either.
But surely they need to homologate their engine before they can race it? The difference with all the existing manufacturers is that they all already have a homologated engine to start with. Last year all the engines were homologated before the first race, and in 2015 they will be continuing with their already-homologated engines until they are ready to re-homologate the new specification engines.To make it fairer for Honda, they should have to homologate the engine before the season starts, but then still have the same number of development tokens as the others to use during the season.
Since when has fair mattered? You race to the rules, as soon as the FIA decide to not apply the rules, but what they think is fair, you get chaos.
What should happen is Honda should homologate the engine at a point in time the rules dictate, not when Charlie thinks would be fair based on what happened last year.
What should happen is Honda should homologate the engine at a point in time the rules dictate, not when Charlie thinks would be fair based on what happened last year.
Teppic said:
More likely that the FIA would say "OK, we will allow Honda to have the same amount of development tokens, but only if the other teams agree".
The chances of the other teams agreeing to that would be zero.
This is a huge problem in the sport. The FIA (or an organisation with some actual backbone) need to be able to introduce/correct rules when they affect the sport as a whole. The chances of the other teams agreeing to that would be zero.
This impact on Honda is clearly unfair, but as sportsmanship seems to be dead it needs to be forced on the teams.
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