****Winter Testing #1 Jerez****
Discussion
RenOHH said:
FourWheelDrift said:
McLaren - new technology teething problems - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117550
If the engine contains new technologies that are giving them these issues then it's a terrible decision to implement them. If they knew these problems were coming, what on earth were they playing at with the massive "new era" and #makehistory marketing campaign? If you knew it was going to be this bad, wouldn't you stfu and keep your heads down? It's the same old McLaren over-complicating things. It's like the exhaust integrated into the floor that kept burning the car. They spent days and days chasing that and f
ked the whole test up.Trying to run before they can walk - again!
U shaped side pods, weird exhausts, f-ducts, mushroom suspension arms, etc
RenOHH said:
If the engine contains new technologies that are giving them these issues then it's a terrible decision to implement them. If they knew these problems were coming, what on earth were they playing at with the massive "new era" and #makehistory marketing campaign? If you knew it was going to be this bad, wouldn't you stfu and keep your heads down? It's the same old McLaren over-complicating things. It's like the exhaust integrated into the floor that kept burning the car. They spent days and days chasing that and fked the whole test up.
Trying to run before they can walk - again!
Perhaps it depends on your ambitions?ked the whole test up.Trying to run before they can walk - again!
If you want to be with the pack, you can play it safe and a team like McLaren can use their budget to sit a few tenths off the front runner.
If you want to be the team with the few tenths in hand, you have to do something different.
I applaud McLaren and Honda for going radical. I get the impression the whole pit lane is wondering quite what might be unleashed when it all comes together. If you could combine Red Bull quality aero with the best drivetrain, you would have a fearsome thing indeed. Part of me suspects the teething problems are hiding something extraordinary.
allergictocheese said:
erhaps it depends on your ambitions?
If you want to be with the pack, you can play it safe and a team like McLaren can use their budget to sit a few tenths off the front runner.
If you want to be the team with the few tenths in hand, you have to do something different.
I applaud McLaren and Honda for going radical. I get the impression the whole pit lane is wondering quite what might be unleashed when it all comes together. If you could combine Red Bull quality aero with the best drivetrain, you would have a fearsome thing indeed. Part of me suspects the teething problems are hiding something extraordinary.
I do hope your right, the Mercs need some competition this year.If you want to be with the pack, you can play it safe and a team like McLaren can use their budget to sit a few tenths off the front runner.
If you want to be the team with the few tenths in hand, you have to do something different.
I applaud McLaren and Honda for going radical. I get the impression the whole pit lane is wondering quite what might be unleashed when it all comes together. If you could combine Red Bull quality aero with the best drivetrain, you would have a fearsome thing indeed. Part of me suspects the teething problems are hiding something extraordinary.
Megaflow said:
Yep. McLaren are obsessed by finding the silver bullet, instead of integrating the car as a single piece.
U shaped side pods, weird exhausts, f-ducts, mushroom suspension arms, etc
They have said that this year that isn't the case, they have integrated the car and accepted that getting 95% of the potential and being able to use it all is better than having 100% but not getting it to work (those are my figures, I can't remember what the specifics mentioned were).U shaped side pods, weird exhausts, f-ducts, mushroom suspension arms, etc
And the f-duct worked very well, with full integration for the car - the reason the McLaren one was better than any of the imitations other teams came up with.
allergictocheese said:
erhaps it depends on your ambitions?
If you want to be with the pack, you can play it safe and a team like McLaren can use their budget to sit a few tenths off the front runner.
If you want to be the team with the few tenths in hand, you have to do something different.
I applaud McLaren and Honda for going radical. I get the impression the whole pit lane is wondering quite what might be unleashed when it all comes together. If you could combine Red Bull quality aero with the best drivetrain, you would have a fearsome thing indeed. Part of me suspects the teething problems are hiding something extraordinary.
I agree with you there, it takes something different a lot of the time. Hopefully when it does go it will be fast, but time will tell.If you want to be with the pack, you can play it safe and a team like McLaren can use their budget to sit a few tenths off the front runner.
If you want to be the team with the few tenths in hand, you have to do something different.
I applaud McLaren and Honda for going radical. I get the impression the whole pit lane is wondering quite what might be unleashed when it all comes together. If you could combine Red Bull quality aero with the best drivetrain, you would have a fearsome thing indeed. Part of me suspects the teething problems are hiding something extraordinary.
Its early days, but.
I just hope it isn't one of those seasons where Mclaren are saying after the first two races, "we'll have a new car ready for Spain and it'll be great" only to turn up at Spain with a car thats 2 tenths of a second faster, but no nearer the front.
I'd prefer to see a top 6 car by Melbourne that slowly progresses towards the front picking up points all the way. Maybe even a win or two. Then build on those learnings for 2016
I just hope it isn't one of those seasons where Mclaren are saying after the first two races, "we'll have a new car ready for Spain and it'll be great" only to turn up at Spain with a car thats 2 tenths of a second faster, but no nearer the front.
I'd prefer to see a top 6 car by Melbourne that slowly progresses towards the front picking up points all the way. Maybe even a win or two. Then build on those learnings for 2016
RenOHH said:
If the engine contains new technologies that are giving them these issues then it's a terrible decision to implement them. If they knew these problems were coming, what on earth were they playing at with the massive "new era" and #makehistory marketing campaign? If you knew it was going to be this bad, wouldn't you stfu and keep your heads down? It's the same old McLaren over-complicating things. It's like the exhaust integrated into the floor that kept burning the car. They spent days and days chasing that and fked the whole test up.
Trying to run before they can walk - again!
FFS its testing. The first tests are 'shakedowns' for systems check.ked the whole test up.Trying to run before they can walk - again!
This time last year RBR and other Renaults were struggling to do ten laps yet they duked out with Williams to be the second best car on the grid - not that I expect McLaren to emulate RBR but the point is that its too early to make criticisms without the chance to rectify problems before racing. Eg. the octopus exhausts were ditched mid-pre-season testing when they realized it wasn't worth the effort.
allergictocheese said:
erhaps it depends on your ambitions?
If you want to be with the pack, you can play it safe and a team like McLaren can use their budget to sit a few tenths off the front runner.
If you want to be the team with the few tenths in hand, you have to do something different.
I applaud McLaren and Honda for going radical. I get the impression the whole pit lane is wondering quite what might be unleashed when it all comes together. If you could combine Red Bull quality aero with the best drivetrain, you would have a fearsome thing indeed. Part of me suspects the teething problems are hiding something extraordinary.
I see what you're saying, but I can't recall anything ever being considered radical on the RB7 or RB9 (2011 and 2013 cars were the dominant ones) - they were just absolutely brilliant all round. PU aside, did the Merc W05 have anything radical?If you want to be with the pack, you can play it safe and a team like McLaren can use their budget to sit a few tenths off the front runner.
If you want to be the team with the few tenths in hand, you have to do something different.
I applaud McLaren and Honda for going radical. I get the impression the whole pit lane is wondering quite what might be unleashed when it all comes together. If you could combine Red Bull quality aero with the best drivetrain, you would have a fearsome thing indeed. Part of me suspects the teething problems are hiding something extraordinary.
RenOHH said:
I see what you're saying, but I can't recall anything ever being considered radical on the RB7 or RB9 (2011 and 2013 cars were the dominant ones) - they were just absolutely brilliant all round. PU aside, did the Merc W05 have anything radical?
Yes. The aero around the front wing supports and lower front wishbone was ahead of anything else. Once they managed to get the front wing mountings through the crash test the wing supports produced counter-rotating vortices which combined to drag more air under the FIA mandated centre section of the wing. The lower wishbones had a very small included angle and were virtually one piece, shaped to minimise drag and provide a cleaner air flow around the lower part of the tub and hence a cleaner flow over the diffuser.Small details, which added up.
With regard to the McLaren being "radical" - they're hardly likely to admit that it's a complete dog's dinner, are they?
entropy said:
FFS its testing. The first tests are 'shakedowns' for systems check.
This time last year RBR and other Renaults were struggling to do ten laps yet they duked out with Williams to be the second best car on the grid - not that I expect McLaren to emulate RBR but the point is that its too early to make criticisms without the chance to rectify problems before racing. Eg. the octopus exhausts were ditched mid-pre-season testing when they realized it wasn't worth the effort.
Sorry I disagree with you. They did what, 13 laps in 2 days? I don't think that's what testing should be. It happened last year to most teams, but this is going to hurt them this time as everyone else is doing proper mileage. As said by someone else, RB's engine trouble was experienced by other teams too, and McLaren aren't in that position. RB made a heck of a recovery, so maybe the MP430 is an awesome car waiting for the engine to catch up. I might have given the impression that I've written them off, which isn't true. I'm just a frustrated fan.This time last year RBR and other Renaults were struggling to do ten laps yet they duked out with Williams to be the second best car on the grid - not that I expect McLaren to emulate RBR but the point is that its too early to make criticisms without the chance to rectify problems before racing. Eg. the octopus exhausts were ditched mid-pre-season testing when they realized it wasn't worth the effort.
And actually the octo exhaust is a great example.
"With limited preseason testing, McLaren felt it best not pursue the Fan Tail and dropped back to the back up solution, a more conventional rear exit exhaust. As Lowe explained, McLaren’s woes were far worse than they had expected when the back up exhaust also started to fail. Testing was over and the team had only completed limited running."
http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2012/05/30/mclaren-mp4-2...
Edited by RenOHH on Monday 2nd February 21:39
RenOHH said:
I see what you're saying, but I can't recall anything ever being considered radical on the RB7 or RB9 (2011 and 2013 cars were the dominant ones) - they were just absolutely brilliant all round. PU aside, did the Merc W05 have anything radical?
I'd say flexible front wings, and using the FIA mandated tea tray spliter as a tuned mass damper were fairly radical.RenOHH said:
Sorry I disagree with you. They did what, 13 laps in 2 days? I don't think that's what testing should be. It happened last year to most teams, but this is going to hurt them this time as everyone else is doing proper mileage. As said by someone else, RB's engine trouble was experienced by other teams too, and McLaren aren't in that position. RB made a heck of a recovery, so maybe the MP430 is an awesome car waiting for the engine to catch up. I might have given the impression that I've written them off, which isn't true. I'm just a frustrated fan.
And actually the octo exhaust is a great example.
"With limited preseason testing, McLaren felt it best not pursue the Fan Tail and dropped back to the back up solution, a more conventional rear exit exhaust. As Lowe explained, McLaren’s woes were far worse than they had expected when the back up exhaust also started to fail. Testing was over and the team had only completed limited running."
http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2012/05/30/mclaren-mp4-2...
With the exhaust they had an alternative. With the set up they have in Jerez I suspect they haven't, it is the fundamental design they have for the car. Sure, it will hurt them not getting the track time this year, but the alternative would have been to design a really "safe" car and definitely not have a chance to get a win. And what good would that do them?And actually the octo exhaust is a great example.
"With limited preseason testing, McLaren felt it best not pursue the Fan Tail and dropped back to the back up solution, a more conventional rear exit exhaust. As Lowe explained, McLaren’s woes were far worse than they had expected when the back up exhaust also started to fail. Testing was over and the team had only completed limited running."
http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2012/05/30/mclaren-mp4-2...
Edited by RenOHH on Monday 2nd February 21:39
entropy said:
RenOHH said:
If the engine contains new technologies that are giving them these issues then it's a terrible decision to implement them. If they knew these problems were coming, what on earth were they playing at with the massive "new era" and #makehistory marketing campaign? If you knew it was going to be this bad, wouldn't you stfu and keep your heads down? It's the same old McLaren over-complicating things. It's like the exhaust integrated into the floor that kept burning the car. They spent days and days chasing that and fked the whole test up.
Trying to run before they can walk - again!
FFS its testing. The first tests are 'shakedowns' for systems check.ked the whole test up.Trying to run before they can walk - again!
This time last year RBR and other Renaults were struggling to do ten laps yet they duked out with Williams to be the second best car on the grid - not that I expect McLaren to emulate RBR but the point is that its too early to make criticisms without the chance to rectify problems before racing. Eg. the octopus exhausts were ditched mid-pre-season testing when they realized it wasn't worth the effort.
RenOHH said:
Sorry I disagree with you. They did what, 13 laps in 2 days? I don't think that's what testing should be. It happened last year to most teams, but this is going to hurt them this time as everyone else is doing proper mileage. As said by someone else, RB's engine trouble was experienced by other teams too, and McLaren aren't in that position. RB made a heck of a recovery, so maybe the MP430 is an awesome car waiting for the engine to catch up. I might have given the impression that I've written them off, which isn't true. I'm just a frustrated fan.
And actually the octo exhaust is a great example.
"With limited preseason testing, McLaren felt it best not pursue the Fan Tail and dropped back to the back up solution, a more conventional rear exit exhaust. As Lowe explained, McLaren’s woes were far worse than they had expected when the back up exhaust also started to fail. Testing was over and the team had only completed limited running."
http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2012/05/30/mclaren-mp4-2...
McLaren-Honda are year behind. Renault have sorted out problems and moved on with installation, packaging and cooling. And actually the octo exhaust is a great example.
"With limited preseason testing, McLaren felt it best not pursue the Fan Tail and dropped back to the back up solution, a more conventional rear exit exhaust. As Lowe explained, McLaren’s woes were far worse than they had expected when the back up exhaust also started to fail. Testing was over and the team had only completed limited running."
http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2012/05/30/mclaren-mp4-2...
Edited by RenOHH on Monday 2nd February 21:39
Regardless of the problems developing the 2012 car who would've known on paper? They could've won the WDC if it wasn't for pitstop problems and reliability.
PeXy said:
But this isn't there first test they had two days at the end of last season to iron out the niggles.
With a completely different engine, chassis, packaging, wiring loom, sensors.....yeah, course they could iron out the niggles.Seriously, do you really have that little idea how much work goes into a car that's constantly being developed right up to and including the first time you run it on track? The things probably only been screwed together properly a couple of days, and I bet they've changed/upgraded plenty of parts already...
Edited by PhillipM on Monday 2nd February 23:40
PhillipM said:
PeXy said:
But this isn't there first test they had two days at the end of last season to iron out the niggles.
With a completely different engine, chassis, packaging, wiring loom, sensors.....yeah, course they could iron out the niggles.Seriously, do you really have that little idea how much work goes into a car that's constantly being developed right up to and including the first time you run it on track? The things probably only been screwed together properly a couple of days, and I bet they've changed/upgraded plenty of parts already...
Edited by PhillipM on Monday 2nd February 23:40
PhillipM said:
PeXy said:
But this isn't there first test they had two days at the end of last season to iron out the niggles.
With a completely different engine, chassis, packaging, wiring loom, sensors.....yeah, course they could iron out the niggles.Seriously, do you really have that little idea how much work goes into a car that's constantly being developed right up to and including the first time you run it on track? The things probably only been screwed together properly a couple of day, and I bet they've changed/upgraded plenty of parts already...
007 VXR said:
PhillipM said:
PeXy said:
But this isn't there first test they had two days at the end of last season to iron out the niggles.
With a completely different engine, chassis, packaging, wiring loom, sensors.....yeah, course they could iron out the niggles.Seriously, do you really have that little idea how much work goes into a car that's constantly being developed right up to and including the first time you run it on track? The things probably only been screwed together properly a couple of days, and I bet they've changed/upgraded plenty of parts already...
Edited by PhillipM on Monday 2nd February 23:40
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