Marussia/Manor to exit administration

[KarlMac]

Lincsblokey said:

Marussia were promised money from Mr Marussia, it never came.

Manor are a seperate entity, but ran the team and hold the entry

So whats changed? I understand they only staved of being wound up on the back of a generous CVA, so where's the money for next/this season coming from?

[Chrisgr31]

KarlMac said:

So whats changed? I understand they only staved of being wound up on the back of a generous CVA, so where's the money for next/this season coming from?

Did the huge debts really exist? I know there were some debts to Ferrari and other suppliers but the bulk of the debts were to Mr Marussia werent they? Seems to me that is funding to the team was in the form of loans, so once he decided to stop playing and recalled them they were stuffed.

If they can find some backers prepared to pay for advertising they might stand a chance. Somewhere it said that Justin King (I think, the ex Sainsbury guy anyway) was involved. No idea how true this is.

[andyps]

Chrisgr31 said:

Did the huge debts really exist? I know there were some debts to Ferrari and other suppliers but the bulk of the debts were to Mr Marussia werent they? Seems to me that is funding to the team was in the form of loans, so once he decided to stop playing and recalled them they were stuffed.

If they can find some backers prepared to pay for advertising they might stand a chance. Somewhere it said that Justin King (I think, the ex Sainsbury guy anyway) was involved. No idea how true this is.

McLaren were owed a sizeable chunk of money by Marussia too. Neither Ferrari nor McLaren will recoup their losses if they receive their share of the prize money Marussia are entitled to

Edited by andyps on Monday 9th February 15:30

[andburg]

Was thinking about this yesterday....

I don't want to see them back in 2015! Last year they were 4 seconds off the pace of the front and racing with Caterham, ok at the back but they had a race. Who are they going to race this year when they are 4 seconds off the pace of the cars at the back?

F1 needs them to be around for 2016 when Haas are the backmarkers and with possible major rule changes they may not stand to gain much by running this year at all.

[suffolk009]

In stark contrast to Force India's reported position, Clare Williams is quoted saying this:

“We want a full competitive lineup on the grid and we will do anything to support Marussia coming back in,” she said.

“We made it very clear in the strategy group that we would vote for them to be able to use the 2014 chassis this season.

“Unfortunately it hasn’t happened, but Williams want a competitive lineup on the grid and we want to help the smaller teams.

“And I think we’ve demonstrated that and are always pushing cost control in formula one,” Williams added. “That’s to save the smaller teams that are really struggling, the likes of Marussia and Caterham, but also the middle teams as well at the moment that are facing some serious issues.”

[Vocal Minority]

I like her - I think her head is screwed on properly and she is doing a lot of good.

[andburg]

Vocal Minority said:

I like her - I think her head is screwed on properly and she is doing a lot of good.

better looking than Frank too!

[Vocal Minority]

With all due respect to Sir Frank...that rather goes without saying

[LaurasOtherHalf]

andburg said:

Was thinking about this yesterday....

I don't want to see them back in 2015! Last year they were 4 seconds off the pace of the front and racing with Caterham, ok at the back but they had a race. Who are they going to race this year when they are 4 seconds off the pace of the cars at the back?

Mclaren?

(I'm here all week, try the veal etc etc)

[StevieBee]

andburg said:

I don't want to see them back in 2015! Last year they were 4 seconds off the pace of the front and racing with Caterham, ok at the back but they had a race. Who are they going to race this year when they are 4 seconds off the pace of the cars at the back?

There was a time when Minardi and Jordan were in the same position yet they managed to haul themselves up through the grid - albeit in part, in different guises.

You've got to be in it to win it.

[Redlake27]

It will be interesting to see what brand name they use. Time for a Hesketh revival?

[suffolk009]

BRM gets my vote.

[RYH64E]

Letting Marussia back into F1 makes as much sense as letting me compete in the 100m at the next Olympics. What's the point of them competing if the best they can manage is 4 seconds off the pace?

They entered under the promise of a budget cap and that's the only scenario that makes sense for small independent teams. F1 has sold it's soul to the car manufacturers and is becoming little more than a marketing tool to sell hatchbacks, there no place for pure racing teams any more.

[Norfolkit]

RYH64E said:

Letting Marussia back into F1 makes as much sense as letting me compete in the 100m at the next Olympics. What's the point of them competing if the best they can manage is 4 seconds off the pace?

They entered under the promise of a budget cap and that's the only scenario that makes sense for small independent teams. F1 has sold it's soul to the car manufacturers and is becoming little more than a marketing tool to sell hatchbacks, there no place for pure racing teams any more.

Manufacturers come and go at the whim of their boardrooms. How long will Mercedes be around even if they keep winning? Not that long would be my guess.
BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Honda all been and gone, some several times, some back, some rumoured to be coming back.

Only pure racing teams stick around, they are and always will be the lifeblood of F1.

[RenesisEvo]

RYH64E said:

Letting Marussia back into F1 makes as much sense as letting me compete in the 100m at the next Olympics. What's the point of them competing if the best they can manage is 4 seconds off the pace?

Your argument completely distorts the performance margins, and as a result ignores how much was achieved using a tiny fraction of the resources.

Picking a race at random: Barcelona, 2014. Merc on pole with a 1:25.232. Ricciardo 3rd with a 26.285 a full second slower than the Merc. Best time by Marussia (Q1) was 1.29.586, so 3 seconds behind the Red Bull, or 4 behind the (dominate) Mercedes. In percentage lap time terms, using the 1.25.232 as a reference, the Red Bull is 1.2% slower, the Marussia 5.1% slower. Use the Red Bull and the Marussia is 3.8% behind.

If we take Usain Bolt (whose dominance in some ways parallels with that of Mercedes in 2014), and his 100m time at the 2012 Olympics, 9.63, you would have to run a 10.12 second 100m to be 5.1% slower. That's still a very fast time - and well beyond the reach of the average person. So no, it wouldn't at all be like you turning up to the 100m at the Olympics, unless you happen to be a professional athlete. (see here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/athletic... - average person 35% slower than Bolt, based on 13 seconds). Interestingly the slowest semi-finalist at the 2012 Olympics achieved 10.31, or 5% slower than Bolt's semi-final time of 9.82. I.e. the spread of Olympic semi-finalists was the same as for the Marussia being 4 seconds a lap behind.

Relative to a Ferrari (same engine) a Marussia is 2.8% slower. Now think about the difference in resources between the two teams. It's staggering how much more is needed to go 3-5% better. I've been fortunate enough to see first-hand the difference between the facilities of McLaren, Red Bull, Lotus and the smaller teams, and the gap is enormous, almost incredulous. There are also plenty of examples in the history of F1 where cars were much further off the pace, but it didn't matter because it meant sizeable grids, and plenty of racing. It also means a chance for young talent to prove themselves - where would Webber, Raikkonen and Alonso be without opportunities with small teams? Remember Senna and Toleman? With even midfield teams in serious trouble financially, F1 must do everything it can to retain entrants, or it faces becoming like Indy 2005 every race, and no-one will watch, and it will die.

[DanielSan]

Even Minardi had Simtek, Arrows, Fort, Tyrrell etc to fight with at the back though... Manor will have no one this year, they'll trundle round fighting between themselves 5-6 seconds off the pace in a year old car.

How is that any better for the sport than them just not being there?

[Cyder]

Because they could finish developing the car they already started and launch it for mid season and then by next season have a competitive package potentially.

Plus it'll give gainful employment for a number of unemployed talented engineers which to my mind can only be a good thing assuming they have the backing to be sustainable.

[DanielSan]

And at the moment that's the big assumption, they're trying to get on the grid purely to get prize money that helps them pay off debts from last season. It's hardly looking like a sustainable team unless a miracle happens.

[RYH64E]

RenesisEvo said:

Your argument completely distorts the performance margins, and as a result ignores how much was achieved using a tiny fraction of the resources.

There are no prizes in F1 for efficient use of resources, plucky losers don't get bonus points. Next season the best that Marussia could expect is to finish last, whatever the percentage performance deficit is, they'll be last. What's the point?

I'm not saying that I'm happy with the direction F1 has taken, I've gone from fanatically watching every session and going to at least one live race per season, to watching the race on TV on Sunday afternoon if there's nothing better on, but that's the way it is. There's no place for the likes of Marussia in today's tech-fest, manufacturer dominated, corporate procession.

[RenesisEvo]

RYH64E said:

There are no prizes in F1 for efficient use of resources, plucky losers don't get bonus points. Next season the best that Marussia could expect is to finish last, whatever the percentage performance deficit is, they'll be last. What's the point?

I'm not saying that I'm happy with the direction F1 has taken, I've gone from fanatically watching every session and going to at least one live race per season, to watching the race on TV on Sunday afternoon if there's nothing better on, but that's the way it is. There's no place for the likes of Marussia in today's tech-fest, manufacturer dominated, corporate procession.

Fair points, I can't disagree. I guess all that can be hoped for is that they survive long enough for someone to buy them and turn it around, like Minardi to STR (although STR are artificially hamstrung by being a B team), or the rules/structure changes enough to make it work for everyone. But it's such a mess the latter is unlikely to happen fast enough.