Sebastian Vettel
Discussion
entropy said:
Machinery counts for a lot but drivers still make the difference to an extent, especially in a lesser car.
I know that it's only one race and in weather conditions at one end of the scale, but of all the teams who had both cars finish, only the Ferrari cars were split by another marque, so they were almost coming in two by two!lee_fr200 said:
I was never a vettel fan tbh but I was actually happy to see him win and beat the mercs fair n square
Also not a Fan but seeing him win in a ferrari made me think twice about what others have mentioned about him in the past. Only winning as he has the best car/cheating Red bullI always thought anyone who can drive/ride and win in different teams has got to be very good. And this showed me vettel is just that.
Jasandjules said:
RemaL said:
Also not a Fan but seeing him win in a ferrari made me think twice about what others have mentioned about him in the past. Only winning as he has the best car/cheating Red bull
They might have forgotten about a Torro Rosso win then.Vettel took an impressive win but not because he was driving a Torro Rosso. Don't forget Sebastian Bourdais qualified 4th and set the 2nd fastest lap of the race only beaten by the Ferrari of Kimi in a car that won the WCC. The Torro Rosso was a good car.
Vettel didn't drag a back of the grid no hoper to win. He out thought, or at least was more decisive than, most people in wet qualifying which put him on pole. From there he controlled the race. Extremely impressive for a first win.
Funnily enough he did pretty much the same in Malaysia. He won the race on Saturday by sticking his car at the front of the pits in quali.
Agent Orange said:
Jasandjules said:
RemaL said:
Also not a Fan but seeing him win in a ferrari made me think twice about what others have mentioned about him in the past. Only winning as he has the best car/cheating Red bull
They might have forgotten about a Torro Rosso win then.Vettel took an impressive win but not because he was driving a Torro Rosso. Don't forget Sebastian Bourdais qualified 4th and set the 2nd fastest lap of the race only beaten by the Ferrari of Kimi in a car that won the WCC. The Torro Rosso was a good car.
Vettel didn't drag a back of the grid no hoper to win. He out thought, or at least was more decisive than, most people in wet qualifying which put him on pole. From there he controlled the race. Extremely impressive for a first win.
Funnily enough he did pretty much the same in Malaysia. He won the race on Saturday by sticking his car at the front of the pits in quali.
No one can drag a back of the grid no hoper to win. You're asking too much. Alonso couldn't at Minardi - the best he could do was to make sure it wasn't on the last row of the grid.
The feat is possible with development turnaround from crap car to good car which is what happed to STR 2008 and McLaren 2009 - Lewis winning and in podium positions.
vonuber said:
He's doing rather well so far, isn't he.
I think in some ways he's comparable to JB - he has a sweet spot in terms of the car and his style. If he's in the sweet spot he's very very fast.Problem with top drivers who have this sort of sweet spot is that at times they don't look quite so good and questions are raised.
thegreenhell said:
I'm glad the bloke is doing well at another team. Might shut people up that its just the car winning blah blah blah. Genuinely nice bloke too so hope he wins a championship there too.
Composite Guru said:
thegreenhell said:
I'm glad the bloke is doing well at another team. Might shut people up that its just the car winning blah blah blah. Genuinely nice bloke too so hope he wins a championship there too.
Him and Kimi are currently third and fourth which is exactly where you'd expect them to be given they are both good drivers and they are in a car that is widely considered to be the best of the rest. I do think Vettel is a good driver but that his strengths lie elsewhere than outright speed, he's exceptionally consistent for example.
Someone else pointed out on this forum that it's not as if this position is new for Ferrari, they have been second in the WDC for three out of the last five years and it remains to be seen if they can actually have a championship winning car next season. Currently it looks to me like they are set to be the bridesmaid once again.
leglessAlex said:
But he isn't actually winning all the time, so I don't see anything to make anyone else think that he has Alonso/Hamilton levels of talent. When he was at Red Bull he had a car that suited him perfectly, and so yes, the car did play a massive part in him getting his four titles.
Of course the Red Bull played a massive part in his success, but he has also won races in two other cars that weren't Newey Red Bulls. He surely doesn't need to be 'winning all the time' to prove himself to anyone. Hamilton has only been 'winning all the time' when he has a car that's head and shoulders above the rest of the field, and Alonso has never been in that position.The thing in common between all three of these drivers is that they've had success throughout their F1 careers in multiple teams, have generally dominated most of their team mates, and all have multiple championship titles. I don't see anything that makes me think he doesn't have that same level of talent.
thegreenhell said:
leglessAlex said:
But he isn't actually winning all the time, so I don't see anything to make anyone else think that he has Alonso/Hamilton levels of talent. When he was at Red Bull he had a car that suited him perfectly, and so yes, the car did play a massive part in him getting his four titles.
Of course the Red Bull played a massive part in his success, but he has also won races in two other cars that weren't Newey Red Bulls. He surely doesn't need to be 'winning all the time' to prove himself to anyone. Hamilton has only been 'winning all the time' when he has a car that's head and shoulders above the rest of the field, and Alonso has never been in that position.The thing in common between all three of these drivers is that they've had success throughout their F1 careers in multiple teams, have generally dominated most of their team mates, and all have multiple championship titles. I don't see anything that makes me think he doesn't have that same level of talent.
Who knows though, maybe I just don't like the finger! Sadly I'm not free of silly prejudices.
WDCs are only sum of its parts of what makes a great driver.
The other part of what makes a great driver is what you do with a lesser car and last year has somewhat tainted Vettel's greatness not helped by the fact he had the best car and a relatively weak team mate who peaked for only a year and not to mention winning races comparable to his first - what I wrote further up the page.
The other part of what makes a great driver is what you do with a lesser car and last year has somewhat tainted Vettel's greatness not helped by the fact he had the best car and a relatively weak team mate who peaked for only a year and not to mention winning races comparable to his first - what I wrote further up the page.
entropy said:
WDCs are only sum of its parts of what makes a great driver.
The other part of what makes a great driver is what you do with a lesser car and last year has somewhat tainted Vettel's greatness not helped by the fact he had the best car and a relatively weak team mate who peaked for only a year and not to mention winning races comparable to his first - what I wrote further up the page.
The 2010 and 2012 red bull car where far from the dominate team in both those years infact webber was ahead of vettel for most of 2010 until the end of the season when he clinched it at the last race and to the same extent 2012. Yes 2011 and 2013 they were dominate and he made full use of that. He didn't have it easy in them 4 years.The other part of what makes a great driver is what you do with a lesser car and last year has somewhat tainted Vettel's greatness not helped by the fact he had the best car and a relatively weak team mate who peaked for only a year and not to mention winning races comparable to his first - what I wrote further up the page.
Also he has now won in 3 different cars Hamilton only 2, Alonso only 3 as well.
He scored his first points on his first outing in the bmw saulber back in 2006 which at the time wasn't a brilliant car.
What more does vettel have to do to proven to people on here he is a top driver worthy of his record.
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