Discussion
If something has to be explained, then you've already lost a lot of people. Every aspect of F1 has to be explained, all the time, and there is not enough basic stuff left to enjoy.
I am not even interested in the cars anymore as an engineering masterpiece, as they sound rubbish for a start.
Remember the Ferrari of 1995, or indeed any V12, the McLaren of 2001...these cars were exciting to hear and watch. Montoya in a Williams was pure spectacle of noise and speed.
F1 is lame. It has lost perspective and is only going one way unless there is a major overhaul.
I am not even interested in the cars anymore as an engineering masterpiece, as they sound rubbish for a start.
Remember the Ferrari of 1995, or indeed any V12, the McLaren of 2001...these cars were exciting to hear and watch. Montoya in a Williams was pure spectacle of noise and speed.
F1 is lame. It has lost perspective and is only going one way unless there is a major overhaul.
Might I suggest that NASCAR might be more your cup of tea? Engines that would not look out of place in a 1950's truck, easily understandable (just turn left), lots of noise and pretty much all basic stuff..
There's more to life than looking pretty and making a lot of noise. Plenty of awe left in formula 1 if you're willing to pay attention and engage more than 2 brain cells; the engineering ingenuity and the complexity of what is going on is phenomenal. Always has / will be an engineering led formula until they make it a spec series, which will be a crying shame.
There's more to life than looking pretty and making a lot of noise. Plenty of awe left in formula 1 if you're willing to pay attention and engage more than 2 brain cells; the engineering ingenuity and the complexity of what is going on is phenomenal. Always has / will be an engineering led formula until they make it a spec series, which will be a crying shame.
It's bad... but it was only a few years back when it was worse... at least tyres have been taken out of the equation somewhat. 3-4 years ago, it was just the 'tyre management championship'.
The problem really is that, Mercedes have done SUCH a good job - that they could be in another formula. It's plain for everyone to see and so we are in for an era of domination akin to Red Bull / Ferrari / etc etc... who have all had their turn. Remember though, that this domination is born from ingenuity. No other team has for one moment suggested that Merc' are cheating or have some special magic trick that they employ. Red Bull had the flexi-wings / aero trickery and the like. Mercedes have played a blinder - and with no magic trick to identify, the other teams (Horner especially) are pissed. There's just no simple way for them to compete.
At least Mercedes let their drivers race; it made last season a spectacle. Let's be thankful it isn't Red Bull or Ferrari with such a car advantage; they'd have chosen their number one and it would certainly have been the biggest bore-fest. Ever.
The problem really is that, Mercedes have done SUCH a good job - that they could be in another formula. It's plain for everyone to see and so we are in for an era of domination akin to Red Bull / Ferrari / etc etc... who have all had their turn. Remember though, that this domination is born from ingenuity. No other team has for one moment suggested that Merc' are cheating or have some special magic trick that they employ. Red Bull had the flexi-wings / aero trickery and the like. Mercedes have played a blinder - and with no magic trick to identify, the other teams (Horner especially) are pissed. There's just no simple way for them to compete.
At least Mercedes let their drivers race; it made last season a spectacle. Let's be thankful it isn't Red Bull or Ferrari with such a car advantage; they'd have chosen their number one and it would certainly have been the biggest bore-fest. Ever.
LDN said:
It's bad... but it was only a few years back when it was worse... at least tyres have been taken out of the equation somewhat. 3-4 years ago, it was just the 'tyre management championship'.
The problem really is that, Mercedes have done SUCH a good job - that they could be in another formula. It's plain for everyone to see and so we are in for an era of domination akin to Red Bull / Ferrari / etc etc... who have all had their turn. Remember though, that this domination is born from ingenuity. No other team has for one moment suggested that Merc' are cheating or have some special magic trick that they employ. Red Bull had the flexi-wings / aero trickery and the like. Mercedes have played a blinder - and with no magic trick to identify, the other teams (Horner especially) are pissed. There's just no simple way for them to compete.
At least Mercedes let their drivers race; it made last season a spectacle. Let's be thankful it isn't Red Bull or Ferrari with such a car advantage; they'd have chosen their number one and it would certainly have been the biggest bore-fest. Ever.
Agree with all of that.The problem really is that, Mercedes have done SUCH a good job - that they could be in another formula. It's plain for everyone to see and so we are in for an era of domination akin to Red Bull / Ferrari / etc etc... who have all had their turn. Remember though, that this domination is born from ingenuity. No other team has for one moment suggested that Merc' are cheating or have some special magic trick that they employ. Red Bull had the flexi-wings / aero trickery and the like. Mercedes have played a blinder - and with no magic trick to identify, the other teams (Horner especially) are pissed. There's just no simple way for them to compete.
At least Mercedes let their drivers race; it made last season a spectacle. Let's be thankful it isn't Red Bull or Ferrari with such a car advantage; they'd have chosen their number one and it would certainly have been the biggest bore-fest. Ever.
ash73 said:
There must be some trick; how can they be so far ahead of other teams using the exact same engine?
There is no "spec" engine as you suggest.It's been well documented why the Merc engine is different to the Ferrari and the Renault. (And now the Honda)
They split the MGU-H so the exhaust side is at one end of the engine and the air intake at the other. With all sorts of benefits around heat and pipe lengths. And it's all designed within the rules.
Munter said:
They split the MGU-H so the exhaust side is at one end of the engine and the air intake at the other. With all sorts of benefits around heat and pipe lengths. And it's all designed within the rules.
So they designed an engine within the rules with certain features other manufacturers didn't employ that gave them extra power. I think that is reprehensible and they should be thrown out of the sport. Whatever next? Employing the fastest driver to give you an advantage? I think the world is going mad 
Its seems to me F1 is now for "fans" who love a bit, sorry lot, of corporate hospitality and have the money to pay for it. Oh, yeah and there's some sort of car race going on in the background...
It is a joke, i've now turned off until it sounds sensible/exciting again.
They need 4/5 more teams. More that 2 drivers at the start who could win the race - well it's actually only 1 if his car doesn't break down, 30 mins qualifying, that's it. There's just no uncertainty and without that no drama and without that no point watching.
Even when redbull + Schumacher were winning others were in the mix - wasn't there a season recently when the first 7 races were won by 7 different drivers??
Pinnacle of motorsport - whatever!! F1 is in a terrible state - c'mon Bernie, get it sorted...PLEASE!!
It is a joke, i've now turned off until it sounds sensible/exciting again.
They need 4/5 more teams. More that 2 drivers at the start who could win the race - well it's actually only 1 if his car doesn't break down, 30 mins qualifying, that's it. There's just no uncertainty and without that no drama and without that no point watching.
Even when redbull + Schumacher were winning others were in the mix - wasn't there a season recently when the first 7 races were won by 7 different drivers??
Pinnacle of motorsport - whatever!! F1 is in a terrible state - c'mon Bernie, get it sorted...PLEASE!!
clarki said:
Its seems to me F1 is now for "fans" who love a bit, sorry lot, of corporate hospitality and have the money to pay for it. Oh, yeah and there's some sort of car race going on in the background...
It is a joke, i've now turned off until it sounds sensible/exciting again.
They need 4/5 more teams. More that 2 drivers at the start who could win the race - well it's actually only 1 if his car doesn't break down, 30 mins qualifying, that's it. There's just no uncertainty and without that no drama and without that no point watching.
Even when redbull + Schumacher were winning others were in the mix - wasn't there a season recently when the first 7 races were won by 7 different drivers??
Pinnacle of motorsport - whatever!! F1 is in a terrible state - c'mon Bernie, get it sorted...PLEASE!!
The season where we had 7 different winners in 7 races was beset by people on here whinging that it was too much of a lottery It is a joke, i've now turned off until it sounds sensible/exciting again.
They need 4/5 more teams. More that 2 drivers at the start who could win the race - well it's actually only 1 if his car doesn't break down, 30 mins qualifying, that's it. There's just no uncertainty and without that no drama and without that no point watching.
Even when redbull + Schumacher were winning others were in the mix - wasn't there a season recently when the first 7 races were won by 7 different drivers??
Pinnacle of motorsport - whatever!! F1 is in a terrible state - c'mon Bernie, get it sorted...PLEASE!!
upsidedownmark said:
Might I suggest that NASCAR might be more your cup of tea? Engines that would not look out of place in a 1950's truck, easily understandable (just turn left), lots of noise and pretty much all basic stuff..
Shows how much you know about NASCAR.... 
upsidedownmark said:
Plenty of awe left in formula 1 if you're willing to pay attention and engage more than 2 brain cells; the engineering ingenuity and the complexity of what is going on is phenomenal.
It should be the pinnacle of motor RACING not a techno geek-fest pinnacle.Sadly, the two are not compatible, and often the best motor racing is found in the least geek-fest formulas/categories.
Sad thread is sad.
For the first time in my life I'm now totally turned off from F1.
It's not Mercedes' dominance, I think that having teams make the strides they have is part of it, something to thrust teams into the future and show what's possible.
It is a combination of things that is just boring the piss out of me. In no particular order:
1) The 'corporate' feel - there don't seem to be any/many real characters there. The PR birds with Dictaphones just makes me feel sad and take the fun out of it. They are only there to tell people what not to do.
2) The lack of racing - tyre management, no refuelling, fuel limits, push-to-pass, restrictions on testing/engines/etc. It's just a sad, sad husk of it's former self. Where is the variety? Where is the sexiness?
3) How will it get better? I just can't see a tyre war on the horizon. Nor can I see them ever relaxing the regulations on these new power units. Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to have a simple power/weight limit and let everyone have at it.
I know this is just a regurgitation of what's been said over the last few years but, for me at least, the X-Factor has gone. I used to have a little rush of excitement on a Friday morning of race weekend - a little frisson knowing that on Sunday there would be some rubber laid down and absolute experts in their field going at it like mentalists. Not any more there isn't - this is motor racing by PWC - dull dull dull.
For the first time in my life I'm now totally turned off from F1.
It's not Mercedes' dominance, I think that having teams make the strides they have is part of it, something to thrust teams into the future and show what's possible.
It is a combination of things that is just boring the piss out of me. In no particular order:
1) The 'corporate' feel - there don't seem to be any/many real characters there. The PR birds with Dictaphones just makes me feel sad and take the fun out of it. They are only there to tell people what not to do.
2) The lack of racing - tyre management, no refuelling, fuel limits, push-to-pass, restrictions on testing/engines/etc. It's just a sad, sad husk of it's former self. Where is the variety? Where is the sexiness?
3) How will it get better? I just can't see a tyre war on the horizon. Nor can I see them ever relaxing the regulations on these new power units. Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to have a simple power/weight limit and let everyone have at it.
I know this is just a regurgitation of what's been said over the last few years but, for me at least, the X-Factor has gone. I used to have a little rush of excitement on a Friday morning of race weekend - a little frisson knowing that on Sunday there would be some rubber laid down and absolute experts in their field going at it like mentalists. Not any more there isn't - this is motor racing by PWC - dull dull dull.
Defcon5 said:
In very simple terms, what are the rules on the engine? Is there a HP limit, or fuel,flow limit or something?
It's limited both in amount and in flow-rate.100kg flag-to-flag can be used. I'm not sure what the maximum flow rate is without googling but I seem to recall 100 in there somewhere! Might have been max rate of 100kg/hour which would effectively limit peak power available. I think there are also restrictions on air intake diameter to limit airflow.
i just think the race wont really be representative of the season.
Mercedes have done an excellent job, first race is always going to throw up reliability problems. There are fundamental issues ith the sport though, things are never going to be perfect for everyone. I agree that fuel saving is a problem, yes its always been there before, but it used to be a small aspect where now its one of the major aspects. For me the main issue is that the grid was low on numbers to start with, having so few teams is a massive issue for me. And i agree that the distribution of money needs to be better for the lower teams allowing them more chance of competing with the big manufacturers.
I am dissapointed in Red Bull kicking a fuss after just one race, and suggesting they may pull out, funnily enough now there not winning... At the end of the day they have been beaten fairly and they havnt done a good enough job to be winning. It shows what credit we should be giving to the mid field teams that have struggled to be at the top, let alone win back to back titles, yet never mention about leaving the sport.
Another thing to mention is that Vettel finished 30 seconds behind, which has been pretty typical for as long as I can remember, what people fail to mention is that he wasnt running at full pace as he was stuck behind Massa for the first pitstop phase, had he been in clear air behind the Mercs this would have been more like 15-20 seconds, which is not far at all after a full race distance. Given the top speed the Ferraris have achieved they may be able to push Mercedes closer in the next race.
Mercedes have done an excellent job, first race is always going to throw up reliability problems. There are fundamental issues ith the sport though, things are never going to be perfect for everyone. I agree that fuel saving is a problem, yes its always been there before, but it used to be a small aspect where now its one of the major aspects. For me the main issue is that the grid was low on numbers to start with, having so few teams is a massive issue for me. And i agree that the distribution of money needs to be better for the lower teams allowing them more chance of competing with the big manufacturers.
I am dissapointed in Red Bull kicking a fuss after just one race, and suggesting they may pull out, funnily enough now there not winning... At the end of the day they have been beaten fairly and they havnt done a good enough job to be winning. It shows what credit we should be giving to the mid field teams that have struggled to be at the top, let alone win back to back titles, yet never mention about leaving the sport.
Another thing to mention is that Vettel finished 30 seconds behind, which has been pretty typical for as long as I can remember, what people fail to mention is that he wasnt running at full pace as he was stuck behind Massa for the first pitstop phase, had he been in clear air behind the Mercs this would have been more like 15-20 seconds, which is not far at all after a full race distance. Given the top speed the Ferraris have achieved they may be able to push Mercedes closer in the next race.
You are right wish someone with the connections listened to the fans. Trouble is we are the idiots for paying the ticket prices to watch. If the British Grand Prix took place to only the paddock club and empty grandstands something would change for sure, or perhaps knowing Bernie we would have another Arab based race instead. Lets face it they pay to get the deciding round and have even got the points rules changed for a season. With Bernie and CVC (piranhas) it will stay snouts and trough.
Fire99 said:
Well no era is or has been perfect but things really do seem to have slid a long way down a path of 'artificial thrills' I remember fuel issues of the 80's Turbo era but it was still 'organic' racing and was genuinely exciting to see a car way ahead run out of fuel with half a lap remaining. I guess when they weren't running out of fuel, they were running up to about 1000bhp and a big difference from KERS (or ERS) and DRS was that if you overdid it with the boost then it would screw your entire race rather than having another go the following lap.
I can still go back and watch 80's races and enjoy them. These are easily forgotten.
Perhaps the big issues is (perhaps) that back then car development still came first and exciting racing etc was a natural reaction. Where as now in the 'appearances before integrity' age, they are trying to artificially generate excitement / overtaking / sparks etc and it shows.
Even in the unlimited boost phase the cars only raced with around 850bhp. If you wanted a 1000bhp race car you would be looking at the last of the unlimited v10s.I can still go back and watch 80's races and enjoy them. These are easily forgotten.
Perhaps the big issues is (perhaps) that back then car development still came first and exciting racing etc was a natural reaction. Where as now in the 'appearances before integrity' age, they are trying to artificially generate excitement / overtaking / sparks etc and it shows.
longshot said:
You miserable lot.
Have you not noticed the pretty sparks that come from the plank now.
There is a very good reason for the sparks, and it isn't the show (though that is a useful by product).Have you not noticed the pretty sparks that come from the plank now.
BlimeyCharlie said:
If something has to be explained, then you've already lost a lot of people. Every aspect of F1 has to be explained, all the time, and there is not enough basic stuff left to enjoy.
I am not even interested in the cars anymore as an engineering masterpiece, as they sound rubbish for a start.
Remember the Ferrari of 1995, or indeed any V12, the McLaren of 2001...these cars were exciting to hear and watch. Montoya in a Williams was pure spectacle of noise and speed.
F1 is lame. It has lost perspective and is only going one way unless there is a major overhaul.
They didn't exactly sound pleasant 2 years ago, they were just louder.I am not even interested in the cars anymore as an engineering masterpiece, as they sound rubbish for a start.
Remember the Ferrari of 1995, or indeed any V12, the McLaren of 2001...these cars were exciting to hear and watch. Montoya in a Williams was pure spectacle of noise and speed.
F1 is lame. It has lost perspective and is only going one way unless there is a major overhaul.
ash73 said:
LDN said:
No other team has for one moment suggested that Merc' are cheating or have some special magic trick that they employ.
There must be some trick; how can they be so far ahead of other teams using the exact same engine?Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff