Discussion
andyps said:
Eric Mc said:
"Formula 1 - When Did You Lose Interest?"
A headline from "Motorsport" magazine in 1965.
The more things change, the more they stay the same!A headline from "Motorsport" magazine in 1965.
Which issue was that Eric? I'm interested to read the article.
Spawn said:
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Eric Mc said:
"Formula 1 - When Did You Lose Interest?"
A headline from "Motorsport" magazine in 1965.
Pretty much gave up taking the sport seriously after Spa 2008.A headline from "Motorsport" magazine in 1965.
maffski said:
Success ballast, or a fuel penalty.
This is the sort of simple solution that the fans could appreciate and it could be implemented by the start of the European season if the will of everyone was there.To differentiate the WDC from the WCC, I would be happy to award extra award Constructor points to cars carrying ballast, or reduced fuel.
The trouble is that the top teams will veto it, like everything else that is proposed.
So the first step needs to be the FIA making the rules, the series promoter investing for the future, rather than asset stripping and the teams to get on with it without moaning.
The drivers will race with whatever they have under them. Robbing the engineers of development success could be the biggest step to ensuring that teams can afford to compete in the long term.
I still keep watching, but for 2015, I feel that dumping a SKY and saving 4 hours of painful viewing and then watching highlights on BBC will prove to be Less frustrating.
Some thoughts on where F1 has lost it's way.
WAY too corporate and po-faced. Hammond's Top Gear feature on NASCAR perfectly illustrated this for me.
A bunch of bland, media trained drivers... and no, Lewis trying to look like a gangsta rap wannabe doesn't count.
The fact that teams that throw millions at the sport can't even make it to the actual race/go bankrupt. Does Bernie really want a Premier Leaugue style yawnfest, where the same old faces dominate? Surely some of the £1 billion plus that is generated could be spread around to promote more competition/new blood?
While I appreciate that F1 is the zenith of motorsport engineering and technology, I can't help thinking that it's so far up it's own arse it's lost the soul and passion it used to have.
WAY too corporate and po-faced. Hammond's Top Gear feature on NASCAR perfectly illustrated this for me.
A bunch of bland, media trained drivers... and no, Lewis trying to look like a gangsta rap wannabe doesn't count.
The fact that teams that throw millions at the sport can't even make it to the actual race/go bankrupt. Does Bernie really want a Premier Leaugue style yawnfest, where the same old faces dominate? Surely some of the £1 billion plus that is generated could be spread around to promote more competition/new blood?
While I appreciate that F1 is the zenith of motorsport engineering and technology, I can't help thinking that it's so far up it's own arse it's lost the soul and passion it used to have.
benjj said:
Sad thread is sad.
For the first time in my life I'm now totally turned off from F1.
It's not Mercedes' dominance, I think that having teams make the strides they have is part of it, something to thrust teams into the future and show what's possible.
It is a combination of things that is just boring the piss out of me. In no particular order:
1) The 'corporate' feel - there don't seem to be any/many real characters there. The PR birds with Dictaphones just makes me feel sad and take the fun out of it. They are only there to tell people what not to do.
2) The lack of racing - tyre management, no refuelling, fuel limits, push-to-pass, restrictions on testing/engines/etc. It's just a sad, sad husk of it's former self. Where is the variety? Where is the sexiness?
3) How will it get better? I just can't see a tyre war on the horizon. Nor can I see them ever relaxing the regulations on these new power units. Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to have a simple power/weight limit and let everyone have at it.
I know this is just a regurgitation of what's been said over the last few years but, for me at least, the X-Factor has gone. I used to have a little rush of excitement on a Friday morning of race weekend - a little frisson knowing that on Sunday there would be some rubber laid down and absolute experts in their field going at it like mentalists. Not any more there isn't - this is motor racing by PWC - dull dull dull.
I completely agree with the above.For the first time in my life I'm now totally turned off from F1.
It's not Mercedes' dominance, I think that having teams make the strides they have is part of it, something to thrust teams into the future and show what's possible.
It is a combination of things that is just boring the piss out of me. In no particular order:
1) The 'corporate' feel - there don't seem to be any/many real characters there. The PR birds with Dictaphones just makes me feel sad and take the fun out of it. They are only there to tell people what not to do.
2) The lack of racing - tyre management, no refuelling, fuel limits, push-to-pass, restrictions on testing/engines/etc. It's just a sad, sad husk of it's former self. Where is the variety? Where is the sexiness?
3) How will it get better? I just can't see a tyre war on the horizon. Nor can I see them ever relaxing the regulations on these new power units. Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to have a simple power/weight limit and let everyone have at it.
I know this is just a regurgitation of what's been said over the last few years but, for me at least, the X-Factor has gone. I used to have a little rush of excitement on a Friday morning of race weekend - a little frisson knowing that on Sunday there would be some rubber laid down and absolute experts in their field going at it like mentalists. Not any more there isn't - this is motor racing by PWC - dull dull dull.
The 'Sport' has had a whole year to do something about the noise, but has done nothing.
We still have air traffic control-esque pit to car radio, which I thought was a no-no? How can the sport be about 'technology' but have 'radio' as an intrinsic part of the sport?
The above is one of several contradictions the sport suffers from. If it is about technology and mirroring the road car industry then why have pit stops after 10 laps?
The camera angles for tv are always the same, with no impact of speed.
And someone made the comment about the V8's not being good to listen to. I agree, but better than these engines which don't even sound like a car, and are too quiet. What next? A 1 cylinder engine with 7 turbochargers?
RGambo said:
In my opinion the real reason F1 has gone down the pan in recent years is they give too much control to the teams. in other sports rules are written and teams read them and decide if they want to play by them, then if holes in the rules are found they are fixed, but not by asking the current participants what they think should be done, but by watching the show and taking the reaction of the supporters to improve the situation.
Not teams per se but too much vested interests arguably made worse by Bernie selling out to CVC.jogger1976 said:
WAY too corporate and po-faced. Hammond's Top Gear feature on NASCAR perfectly illustrated this for me.
NASCAR is actually in decline and is a saturated product. It peaked in the 2000s but now struggling to sell out venues, attendance has markedly dropped and TV viewers has been in decline.Just got home from an awesome trip to Aus, and spent Sunday at Albert Park watching the race. Also met a pile of F1 people at Melbourne airport on Monday night, lots of them flying to Malaysia, quite a lot flying back to the UK on my flight. (I was surprised so many of them came back to the UK but hey)
I had a great time at the race on Sunday, though this was the first GP I've been to as a punter, so while the race itself wasn't the best and there really needs to be a lot more than 15 cars lining up at the start, and not a great deal of action happened on track, there is a lot of other stuff to watch/do at Albert Park. Granted if you've been there and done that then the airshows might bore you, the classic cars parked everywhere might not interest you, or teh support races, if all you're there for is the GP, then yeah I can see Aus this year being crap...
Dunno what the hell McHonda are doing but Jensons car sounded terrible all race. Though it's clearly not running on the full beans so once they get the reliability more sorted and turn it up to 11 (hopefully mid season) then they ought ouught to be at a similar level to RB/Ferrari/Williams, the car looks decent and a lot better aero wise than last years. (A better livery and a few sponsors wouldn't hurt, but hey)
I don't get the hate for the noise. I worked a few years at Silverstone and I much prefer the still noisy but now I can think and my teeth don't rattle new hybrid noise. Hearing a crowd of V8s go past was great, but I preferred the F1 cars at full tilt. Watching an F1 car blat past is person beats the TV experience every time.
I had a great time at the race on Sunday, though this was the first GP I've been to as a punter, so while the race itself wasn't the best and there really needs to be a lot more than 15 cars lining up at the start, and not a great deal of action happened on track, there is a lot of other stuff to watch/do at Albert Park. Granted if you've been there and done that then the airshows might bore you, the classic cars parked everywhere might not interest you, or teh support races, if all you're there for is the GP, then yeah I can see Aus this year being crap...
Dunno what the hell McHonda are doing but Jensons car sounded terrible all race. Though it's clearly not running on the full beans so once they get the reliability more sorted and turn it up to 11 (hopefully mid season) then they ought ouught to be at a similar level to RB/Ferrari/Williams, the car looks decent and a lot better aero wise than last years. (A better livery and a few sponsors wouldn't hurt, but hey)
I don't get the hate for the noise. I worked a few years at Silverstone and I much prefer the still noisy but now I can think and my teeth don't rattle new hybrid noise. Hearing a crowd of V8s go past was great, but I preferred the F1 cars at full tilt. Watching an F1 car blat past is person beats the TV experience every time.
VictorCharlie said:
Just got home from an awesome trip to Aus, and spent Sunday at Albert Park watching the race. Also met a pile of F1 people at Melbourne airport on Monday night, lots of them flying to Malaysia, quite a lot flying back to the UK on my flight. (I was surprised so many of them came back to the UK but hey)
I had a great time at the race on Sunday, though this was the first GP I've been to as a punter, so while the race itself wasn't the best and there really needs to be a lot more than 15 cars lining up at the start, and not a great deal of action happened on track, there is a lot of other stuff to watch/do at Albert Park. Granted if you've been there and done that then the airshows might bore you, the classic cars parked everywhere might not interest you, or teh support races, if all you're there for is the GP, then yeah I can see Aus this year being crap...
Dunno what the hell McHonda are doing but Jensons car sounded terrible all race. Though it's clearly not running on the full beans so once they get the reliability more sorted and turn it up to 11 (hopefully mid season) then they ought ouught to be at a similar level to RB/Ferrari/Williams, the car looks decent and a lot better aero wise than last years. (A better livery and a few sponsors wouldn't hurt, but hey)
I don't get the hate for the noise. I worked a few years at Silverstone and I much prefer the still noisy but now I can think and my teeth don't rattle new hybrid noise. Hearing a crowd of V8s go past was great, but I preferred the F1 cars at full tilt. Watching an F1 car blat past is person beats the TV experience every time.
Don`t you come on here with your positivity after a what sounds like a great weekend in Aus watching the F1 I had a great time at the race on Sunday, though this was the first GP I've been to as a punter, so while the race itself wasn't the best and there really needs to be a lot more than 15 cars lining up at the start, and not a great deal of action happened on track, there is a lot of other stuff to watch/do at Albert Park. Granted if you've been there and done that then the airshows might bore you, the classic cars parked everywhere might not interest you, or teh support races, if all you're there for is the GP, then yeah I can see Aus this year being crap...
Dunno what the hell McHonda are doing but Jensons car sounded terrible all race. Though it's clearly not running on the full beans so once they get the reliability more sorted and turn it up to 11 (hopefully mid season) then they ought ouught to be at a similar level to RB/Ferrari/Williams, the car looks decent and a lot better aero wise than last years. (A better livery and a few sponsors wouldn't hurt, but hey)
I don't get the hate for the noise. I worked a few years at Silverstone and I much prefer the still noisy but now I can think and my teeth don't rattle new hybrid noise. Hearing a crowd of V8s go past was great, but I preferred the F1 cars at full tilt. Watching an F1 car blat past is person beats the TV experience every time.
The problems with F1 are fundamentally structural and financial.
All the rest is reasonably ok - but if they don't sort out the structural problems, the whole edifice could collapse.
The decline in popularity in F1 is a symptom of a much more general decline in motor sport and, indeed, in all things automotive. The demographic that traditionally fell in love with motor racing in childhood (males aged 8 to 10) is not being created in the same numbers it was 30 - 40 years ago.
Indeed, a massive number of traditional male interests are seeing huge declines - whether it is angling, model building, reading books etc. Even watching TV is a declining market.
We are seeing a major change in the way young people do things, experience things and consume things. F1 is suffering for these reasons too.
All the rest is reasonably ok - but if they don't sort out the structural problems, the whole edifice could collapse.
The decline in popularity in F1 is a symptom of a much more general decline in motor sport and, indeed, in all things automotive. The demographic that traditionally fell in love with motor racing in childhood (males aged 8 to 10) is not being created in the same numbers it was 30 - 40 years ago.
Indeed, a massive number of traditional male interests are seeing huge declines - whether it is angling, model building, reading books etc. Even watching TV is a declining market.
We are seeing a major change in the way young people do things, experience things and consume things. F1 is suffering for these reasons too.
rdjohn said:
maffski said:
Success ballast, or a fuel penalty.
This is the sort of simple solution that the fans could appreciate and it could be implemented by the start of the European season if the will of everyone was there.To differentiate the WDC from the WCC, I would be happy to award extra award Constructor points to cars carrying ballast, or reduced fuel.
The trouble is that the top teams will veto it, like everything else that is proposed.
So the first step needs to be the FIA making the rules, the series promoter investing for the future, rather than asset stripping and the teams to get on with it without moaning.
The drivers will race with whatever they have under them. Robbing the engineers of development success could be the biggest step to ensuring that teams can afford to compete in the long term.
I still keep watching, but for 2015, I feel that dumping a SKY and saving 4 hours of painful viewing and then watching highlights on BBC will prove to be Less frustrating.
The last thing F1 needs is the sort of artificial f
king about that we see in the crash 'n' bash formulae, it can make up its own very nicely thanks. 
BlimeyCharlie said:
benjj said:
Sad thread is sad.
For the first time in my life I'm now totally turned off from F1.
It's not Mercedes' dominance, I think that having teams make the strides they have is part of it, something to thrust teams into the future and show what's possible.
It is a combination of things that is just boring the piss out of me. In no particular order:
1) The 'corporate' feel - there don't seem to be any/many real characters there. The PR birds with Dictaphones just makes me feel sad and take the fun out of it. They are only there to tell people what not to do.
2) The lack of racing - tyre management, no refuelling, fuel limits, push-to-pass, restrictions on testing/engines/etc. It's just a sad, sad husk of it's former self. Where is the variety? Where is the sexiness?
3) How will it get better? I just can't see a tyre war on the horizon. Nor can I see them ever relaxing the regulations on these new power units. Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to have a simple power/weight limit and let everyone have at it.
I know this is just a regurgitation of what's been said over the last few years but, for me at least, the X-Factor has gone. I used to have a little rush of excitement on a Friday morning of race weekend - a little frisson knowing that on Sunday there would be some rubber laid down and absolute experts in their field going at it like mentalists. Not any more there isn't - this is motor racing by PWC - dull dull dull.
I completely agree with the above.For the first time in my life I'm now totally turned off from F1.
It's not Mercedes' dominance, I think that having teams make the strides they have is part of it, something to thrust teams into the future and show what's possible.
It is a combination of things that is just boring the piss out of me. In no particular order:
1) The 'corporate' feel - there don't seem to be any/many real characters there. The PR birds with Dictaphones just makes me feel sad and take the fun out of it. They are only there to tell people what not to do.
2) The lack of racing - tyre management, no refuelling, fuel limits, push-to-pass, restrictions on testing/engines/etc. It's just a sad, sad husk of it's former self. Where is the variety? Where is the sexiness?
3) How will it get better? I just can't see a tyre war on the horizon. Nor can I see them ever relaxing the regulations on these new power units. Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to have a simple power/weight limit and let everyone have at it.
I know this is just a regurgitation of what's been said over the last few years but, for me at least, the X-Factor has gone. I used to have a little rush of excitement on a Friday morning of race weekend - a little frisson knowing that on Sunday there would be some rubber laid down and absolute experts in their field going at it like mentalists. Not any more there isn't - this is motor racing by PWC - dull dull dull.
The 'Sport' has had a whole year to do something about the noise, but has done nothing.
We still have air traffic control-esque pit to car radio, which I thought was a no-no? How can the sport be about 'technology' but have 'radio' as an intrinsic part of the sport?
The above is one of several contradictions the sport suffers from. If it is about technology and mirroring the road car industry then why have pit stops after 10 laps?
The camera angles for tv are always the same, with no impact of speed.
And someone made the comment about the V8's not being good to listen to. I agree, but better than these engines which don't even sound like a car, and are too quiet. What next? A 1 cylinder engine with 7 turbochargers?
And the pit to car stuff has been significantly reduced. Observing from the back of the garage last year, tuned in to the feed, it was absolutely amazing how much radio traffic there was, it was constant.
Finally, despite the platitudes, it's never been about mirroring the road car industry, in all honesty.
As a 'casual' fan (compared to some of the knowledgeable diehard's here) I fear it's all turning in to the Schumacher V's Massa era, which incidentally was when I switched off for a time.
As much as Horner's moaning about engines is based on his teams inability to keep up, he has a point.
Let's say with no intervention it could take the other teams years just to catch up. By that time ticket sales will be down, viewers will have left in their droves (me included) and teams will more than likely have called it a day.
Is that what we want?
As much as Horner's moaning about engines is based on his teams inability to keep up, he has a point.
Let's say with no intervention it could take the other teams years just to catch up. By that time ticket sales will be down, viewers will have left in their droves (me included) and teams will more than likely have called it a day.
Is that what we want?
andyps said:
Eric Mc said:
I'll have to do a bit of digging. I'll get back to you when I find it.
Thanks EricPerhaps Eric could suggest that front cover for discussion in their next Motor Sport magazine podcast?
Eric Mc said:
Interestingly, back in 1968 Lotus instructed Ford to make the Cosworth DFV available to other teams - to ensure competitiveness on the grid.
And Martin Whitmarsh visited Mercedes to ask them to supply engines to Brawn GP after Honda withdrew.Bernie's got some cheek asking Mercedes to bankroll the German GP given their commitment to F1 and them picking up the tab for Hamilton's wages while he was at McLaren.
F1 should be about watching a race. That first one was an unreliability run.
These expensive hybrid powerplants aren't relevant to putting on a race.
If F1 doesn't care about itself why should anyone else?
I was wondering what could make F1 worse
And then I read this....
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns30300.html
At least we don't have Rubens moaning anymore. How very classy of him to say he should've had one of Schumacher's titles.....
And then I read this....
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns30300.html
At least we don't have Rubens moaning anymore. How very classy of him to say he should've had one of Schumacher's titles.....
Redlake27 said:
I was wondering what could make F1 worse
And then I read this....
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns30300.html
At least we don't have Rubens moaning anymore. How very classy of him to say he should've had one of Schumacher's titles.....
The key word here is Jean Todt - think of all the bad decisions Ferrari made which were contrary to the good of the sport (to make sure MS won the title at all costs) and he was responsible, but he is now in charge of the Fia (although he has disappeared and contributes nothing to resolve the mess F1 is currently in). And then I read this....
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns30300.html
At least we don't have Rubens moaning anymore. How very classy of him to say he should've had one of Schumacher's titles.....
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