Women's F1 championship
Discussion
poppopbangbang said:
To provide a slightly informed view point; there is no technical or physical reason why female drivers wouldn't work and couldn't be as quick as male drivers. The power steering systems employed (which are absolutely required, male or female due to the aero loads creating very high steering weights) remove the requirement for huge upper body strength which was the only real issue previously.
If you get to the point of really tailoring your tub to your driver then the female bodyshape also offers some advantages over the male bodyshape with regards to width across shoulders and overall height. Shorter drives allow you to get the weight of your pedal box assembly back and gives more box room in the nose for example.
The argument about G forces is pretty mute, if you go through the training routine that is usual for this sort of motorsport you'll be strong enough.
What really needs to happen is all this bulls
t about potential chick only series etc. stops and someone actually makes an effort to point out that out of all the sports motorsport is one of the few that allows males and females to compete on a level playing field where no sex has a particular advantage over the other. There are some seriously quick female drivers out there now and it isn't going to be long before there is one in F1!
Some interesting points there, thanks.If you get to the point of really tailoring your tub to your driver then the female bodyshape also offers some advantages over the male bodyshape with regards to width across shoulders and overall height. Shorter drives allow you to get the weight of your pedal box assembly back and gives more box room in the nose for example.
The argument about G forces is pretty mute, if you go through the training routine that is usual for this sort of motorsport you'll be strong enough.
What really needs to happen is all this bulls
t about potential chick only series etc. stops and someone actually makes an effort to point out that out of all the sports motorsport is one of the few that allows males and females to compete on a level playing field where no sex has a particular advantage over the other. There are some seriously quick female drivers out there now and it isn't going to be long before there is one in F1!If there's a goal to encourage more women to participate in Motor Sport (and it's a fair debate if that should be a specific goal) then a top-level championship with high visibility is needed to get women involved at grass-roots. There's been an up tick in women going into engineering degrees which will filter across into race engineers and eventually into more senior roles in teams. No reason other than under-representation at grass-roots levels for the lack of top women drivers.
Really it needs both international and national series that make an effort to appear open and accessible to women.
I noticed a couple of women on the grid for the BSB and support races from Donington this weekend which was a bit of a surprise as I'd have though bikes way to physical for women to compete with any chance of success.
Rick_1138 said:
I shouldn't have laughed at that yas marina video but when he braked after the first straight and her head just welded itself to the front panel, tears of laughter.
However on a serious note, you could tell before she left the pit she was shifting about in the seat, she shouldn't have been able to move forward at allthe straps should have been that tight.
Bit of a worry.
lol did the sameHowever on a serious note, you could tell before she left the pit she was shifting about in the seat, she shouldn't have been able to move forward at allthe straps should have been that tight.
Bit of a worry.
imho women have both the skills & physique to compete in F1 no problem ...what they lack is the competitiveness/aggressiveness/sheer bloody mindedness that testosterone brings (along with stupidity 
)
So unless their skill level is much much higher then their male counterparts, then they'll always struggle ...otherwise, as pointed out above, they'd be 50/50 in 'sports' that don't require that physical bias, such as Dart's & Snooker
But, that also doesn't mean that we shouldn't be striving to make sure that the playing field is level for both sexes ...& imho F1 isn't anywhere near there yet (but lets be honest, neither is society/societies in general (UK women couldn't even vote 100 years ago- which in the grand scheme of things isn't very long at all!) & wtf would happen if Saudi held a race, would a female driver be even allowed to compete/drive?
)So unless their skill level is much much higher then their male counterparts, then they'll always struggle ...otherwise, as pointed out above, they'd be 50/50 in 'sports' that don't require that physical bias, such as Dart's & Snooker
But, that also doesn't mean that we shouldn't be striving to make sure that the playing field is level for both sexes ...& imho F1 isn't anywhere near there yet (but lets be honest, neither is society/societies in general (UK women couldn't even vote 100 years ago- which in the grand scheme of things isn't very long at all!) & wtf would happen if Saudi held a race, would a female driver be even allowed to compete/drive?
Anyone who doesn't think that women can drive or who thinks that they need their own series should have a little word with the GT4 Grid at Oulton yesterday, most of whom were handed their arses by 16 year old Jamie Chadwick.
As someone at the top of the thread said, it's not about lack of ability, it's about the lack of girls who want to go racing - that said there does seem to be a pleasant feeling that we are on the cusp of a bit of a change. There really does appear to be more and more young ladies taking up motorsport these days, and long may it continue!
As someone at the top of the thread said, it's not about lack of ability, it's about the lack of girls who want to go racing - that said there does seem to be a pleasant feeling that we are on the cusp of a bit of a change. There really does appear to be more and more young ladies taking up motorsport these days, and long may it continue!
Vocal Minority said:
IainT said:
BB isn't speaking for PH or all PHers. You could always be less passive-aggressive and tell BB directly he's talking tosh. 
I thought in the context of the statement I was directly saying it (albeit pulling in a bit of a general observation about a lot of PH's new found obsession with the ( half) imagined enemy of political correctness).Anyway, as you were
We see this thrust for 'equality' in every aspect of life, from politics to business. Admittedly the thrust in business seems to coming more from government than from within - no government contracts unless an equal gender split on the board is one idea being mooted.
All men don't have equal abilities/talents; all women don't have equal abilities/talents so why should we expect men and women to have equal abilities/talents. Everyone has different qualities - women are generally seen as being more 'caring' and pastoral - does that mean that we don't have excellent male carers/nurses. No, it just means that more women work in that field. We should just remove barriers and let the cream rise in all aspects of life.
We do know from the publicity Ms Wolfe gets the effect it would have on the press should she ever start a GP - a marketing persons 'wet dream'. Can you honestly see a team principal turning down the opportunity of the extra sources of sponsorship by simply not employing a competent female driver???? I can't. With so many teams struggling financially and using 'pay drivers' it seems strange to me that no women have availed themselves of the opportunity to raise the cash and buy a seat. Must be enough rich daddies/husbands/sponsors out there who would love to see their girl in F1.
I do think any form of positive discrimination is very condescending - "You're not really good enough to make it in (insert whatever here)on your talents, but never mind we'll fiddle about with the rules and sort it for you to succeed".
Slightly O/T - why do Wimbledon mens and ladies winners get the same prize money? Men play 5 sets, women play 3. If all matches go to full length women play just over half (60%) of what the men play but get paid the same ??????
BB
BigBob said:
I'm not quite sure what part you think is tosh?
This bit, in bold:BigBob said:
Women and all the 'Politically Correct' wimps are always telling us at every opportunity that women are superior to men - let them prove it!!!!
It's unmitigated lobbocks.Your assertion of reality would be the very opposite of equality. If you think equality is about claiming all are the same then you're clearly not understanding that equality is about equality of opportunity. Not some left-leaning view of forcing equalisation at some lowest common denominator but exactly what we see in open business - aristocracy of talent.
Where government rightly gets involved is where there is institutional inequality which has undeniably been the case. Is there a capability-based reason we don't have more female CEOs? No. There are lots of reasons, some of which need to be addressed head-on, some of which is a function of oft-taken career breaks to have children (as an example).
None of this supports the tosh you claim that we're constantly told women are superior to men.
Getting back on-topic... you don't address the under-representation of women in motorsport by disadvantaging males you do it by ensuring there isn't a culture of sexism and provide an environment that is appealing to all. I suspect most professionals involved in motorsport are fine with this, it's just some luddite fans that are backwards.
IainT said:
Getting back on-topic... you don't address the under-representation of women in motorsport by disadvantaging males you do it by ensuring there isn't a culture of sexism and provide an environment that is appealing to all. I suspect most professionals involved in motorsport are fine with this, it's just some luddite fans that are backwards.
This is one point we can agree on 
As I've said - I'm against ANY form of discrimination, either positive OR negative. They will only weaken the strain.
Smash the 'Glass ceiling' and let the cream rise to the top.
BB
Jasandjules said:
I'd quite like to see a weekend where FP2 is handed over to women drivers - i.e. the SAME cars the chaps will be using in FP3. See what kind of pace they can put in. That will tell you enough will it not?
You're missing the point. A direct comparison like that is wrong at this point in time - we already know that there are not really any women who would seriously challenge at the top in F1. Talented women are not being frozen out of F1, they are not even taking up motor sport.Mr_Thyroid said:
You're missing the point. A direct comparison like that is wrong at this point in time - we already know that there are not really any women who would seriously challenge at the top in F1. Talented women are not being frozen out of F1, they are not even taking up motor sport.
Well I am sure there would be 20 or so of them willing to give it a go. Then we would be able to see if there is enough talent to compete on merit.http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/9804928/lo...
Female racer speaks sense - F1 is ready for a female driver, but there isn't one good enough...
Female racer speaks sense - F1 is ready for a female driver, but there isn't one good enough...
Eric Mc said:
Off we go again.
Women aren't better re[presented in F1 or ANY motorsport simply because there aren't enough women interested in taking part.
Yup and it's a non starter because women don't watch as much sport as men and aren't as interested in F1 as men. Therefore no viewers and no sponsors and no teams.Women aren't better re[presented in F1 or ANY motorsport simply because there aren't enough women interested in taking part.
You hear this a lot on the bbc where someone says it should be compulsory to show x% of women's sport. The problem is people don't want to watch it.
el stovey said:
Eric Mc said:
Off we go again.
Women aren't better re[presented in F1 or ANY motorsport simply because there aren't enough women interested in taking part.
Yup and it's a non starter because women don't watch as much sport as men and aren't as interested in F1 as men. Therefore no viewers and no sponsors and no teams. Women aren't better re[presented in F1 or ANY motorsport simply because there aren't enough women interested in taking part.
If women say they can drive, prove it. The standard deviation will win and so will the spectacle. Bring it. I'll watch to exactly the same standard I watch any other form of racing. And if she's fit, I'll go for a pit pass, some sweet words, a rampant pec-flex and a toupee.
Edited by mattikake on Thursday 16th April 00:34
StevieBee said:
Wasn't there a RX7 Women's Only championship a while back that died a death due to lack of interest.
Motorsport is like snooker in that there is nothing preventing women competing on equal terms with men other than their interest in doing so.
Boobs get in the way with snooker, to be fair. Motorsport is like snooker in that there is nothing preventing women competing on equal terms with men other than their interest in doing so.
StevieBee said:
Wasn't there a RX7 Women's Only championship a while back that died a death due to lack of interest.
Motorsport is like snooker in that there is nothing preventing women competing on equal terms with men other than their interest in doing so.
Boobs get in the way with snooker, to be fair. Motorsport is like snooker in that there is nothing preventing women competing on equal terms with men other than their interest in doing so.
mattikake said:
el stovey said:
Eric Mc said:
Off we go again.
Women aren't better re[presented in F1 or ANY motorsport simply because there aren't enough women interested in taking part.
Yup and it's a non starter because women don't watch as much sport as men and aren't as interested in F1 as men. Therefore no viewers and no sponsors and no teams. Women aren't better re[presented in F1 or ANY motorsport simply because there aren't enough women interested in taking part.
If women say they can drive, prove it. The standard deviation will win and so will the spectacle. Bring it. I'll watch to exactly the same standard I watch any other form of racing. And if she's fit, I'll go for a pit pass, some sweet words, a rampant pec-flex and a toupee.
Edited by mattikake on Thursday 16th April 00:34
There are currently maybe only a couple of women capable of driving an F1 car to a reasonable level, so to fill a field of twenty cars you would by default end up with a field full of mediocrity, which nobody wants to see and does nobody any favours. If anything I think it would be counter-productive. There cannot be a 'quick fix' solution to getting women into F1, rather it has to be a gradual, organic process built from the roots up, increasing the numbers starting out and letting the cream rise to the top. Talent will emerge soon enough if the sample set is large enough - it's just a numbers game.
I agree with the 'numbers game' hypothesis, and I agree with the comments about discrimination in any form positive or negative. Female drivers can and have raced in F1, we're just waiting for the next.
I don't want to see tokenism, a contrived second tier race or a grid full of moderately successful but not world class female drivers making up the numbers.
I don't know of any Female drivers who have the credentials to be honest, seeing as the entry requirement for male drivers seems to be success in GP2 or Renault 3.5 and/or a 'scholarship' with Red Bull or McLaren... Either that or a huge wodge of cash, but even the most reviled current pay drivers have better career stats than De Silvestro, Carmen Jorda and Wolff
I don't want to see tokenism, a contrived second tier race or a grid full of moderately successful but not world class female drivers making up the numbers.
I don't know of any Female drivers who have the credentials to be honest, seeing as the entry requirement for male drivers seems to be success in GP2 or Renault 3.5 and/or a 'scholarship' with Red Bull or McLaren... Either that or a huge wodge of cash, but even the most reviled current pay drivers have better career stats than De Silvestro, Carmen Jorda and Wolff
I am too a big F1 fan and I would be happy to see a woman make their way into the current grid based on deserving to be there. Would probably be one of her fans and supporters too!
Fact is, you look at the racing CV of Susie Wolff or Carmen Jorda and they simple are not up there. Not even when compared with the driver that we as spectators regard as “weaker”.
And think about how many guys have impressive CVs, plenty of race wins in other categories and cannot make their way into F1... it is a tough sport to get into. Need the right combination of talent, wins and money!
I will try to help on this one… When I have a little girl that is 4-5 I will take her to go-karts and we will see what she manages. Will start from a young age, that is a promise! Will she make it?
Fact is, you look at the racing CV of Susie Wolff or Carmen Jorda and they simple are not up there. Not even when compared with the driver that we as spectators regard as “weaker”.
And think about how many guys have impressive CVs, plenty of race wins in other categories and cannot make their way into F1... it is a tough sport to get into. Need the right combination of talent, wins and money!
I will try to help on this one… When I have a little girl that is 4-5 I will take her to go-karts and we will see what she manages. Will start from a young age, that is a promise! Will she make it?
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