is F1 on its knees
Discussion
CrgT16 said:
If you want to watch proper races then look at spec series like Indy
Just don't try and watch todays indycar race. Someone spins off... safety car for an insane amount of laps, finally green flag and someone goes off before they even reach the green flag.... more safety car.... repeat about 4 times.Indycar really needs to rethink its full course yellow procedure as it killed any chance of a race today.
But back to the point, I used to watch every single race live, I just feel its completely out of touch now. Insane prices for Silverstone don't help, £170ish for general admission for a circuit that is as flat as a pancake. I've fast forwarded through a large portion of the race today as there was just nothing going on. Whereas I watched the WEC race live, and even If i could have fast forwarded I wouldn't have as it was superb race, regret not going to Silverstone to watch it live now.
I'll probably still watch the races, but mainly because i don't really have anything better to do on a Sunday afternoon.
When I were a kid . . .
F1 used to compete with sports cars as the prime motor racing formula in the 50s and 60s. It was a close run thing, there being no F1 for a couple of years in the early 60s. I was very keen on sports cars, seeing Moss and speaking with him. It might have been parochial of people in the UK, but sports cars seemed to be news in a way that F1 wasn't at the time. Moss, good though he was in open wheelers, he was better in sports cars. The press loved him. His Mille Miglia win was a national story for years.
I used to follow sports cars more than F1. I remember seeing a C-Class Jaguar in a race. Then the first time a Chaparrel came to this country, with the high wing.
Jags, and the other sports cars, including Ferrari of course, looked a bit upmarket compared to the F1 cars of the time.
The 3-litre formula saved F1.
F1 used to compete with sports cars as the prime motor racing formula in the 50s and 60s. It was a close run thing, there being no F1 for a couple of years in the early 60s. I was very keen on sports cars, seeing Moss and speaking with him. It might have been parochial of people in the UK, but sports cars seemed to be news in a way that F1 wasn't at the time. Moss, good though he was in open wheelers, he was better in sports cars. The press loved him. His Mille Miglia win was a national story for years.
I used to follow sports cars more than F1. I remember seeing a C-Class Jaguar in a race. Then the first time a Chaparrel came to this country, with the high wing.
Jags, and the other sports cars, including Ferrari of course, looked a bit upmarket compared to the F1 cars of the time.
The 3-litre formula saved F1.
Sounds like you have forgotten what F1 is about.
F1 is about the fastest drivers in the world, racing the fastest track cars in the world, employing the latest technological ideas. It's not on it's knees. It's standing as tall as it ever has. The entertainment value is as a spectacle of the pinnacle of driver and design talent. It's not meant to be entertaining to watch as a racing exercise. It never has.
F1 is about the fastest drivers in the world, racing the fastest track cars in the world, employing the latest technological ideas. It's not on it's knees. It's standing as tall as it ever has. The entertainment value is as a spectacle of the pinnacle of driver and design talent. It's not meant to be entertaining to watch as a racing exercise. It never has.
moanthebairns said:
I'm sat watching the highlights of the F1 and I have to say this is one of the most boring races I have ever watched. that's the nature of sporting entertainment without engineered entertainment handicaps. You often get boring events in any sport - football to boxing. That's part of what makes the exciting matches/races/battles/fights, exciting. - You only like the summer because there is a winter etc.
Now I love F1 I always watch every race even if it isn't live but this year I have nil interest. It's becoming a farce.
Some of the problems with it
Roseberg can't put up a fight Hamilton wins it with ease. great. We're getting to see how good Hamilton is. This is mostly all history will remember.
The over takes are mainly done using drs -from the start of F1, overtaking was mostly about gentlemen moving over. Now we get wheel banging and shortcuts off track and yet no-one dies (touches a lot of wood)
The racing is s
t. from the start, good racing was irrelevant. Only winning matters, as in any TOP sport (Yes, implies all other formulae are inferior for this singular reason. Indeed, lesser formula often have to engineer fake action in order to attract fans, but those who want to see the best, watch F1).
The new regs and lack of testing have killed it. Too much testing killed it. Forgotten Schumacher and Ferrari? - the ONLY period in the entirety of F1 history where the viewing figures actually declined
You have world champions fighting for 14th. used to happen a lot. Nothing new
There is that little going on we are now watching the fights for 14th. Seems more like a triumph of modern TV broadcasting to me
Big names have nil sponsorship it's actually embarrassing looking now. that's how it was from the start
Half the field lapped. often how is was from the start
There is no flat out racing often how is was from the start
The biggest cheer is a car getting wheeled off.
It's just dire this season. I know a lot love it on here and it's a bit stupid asking in here. But I can't be the only one who just doesn't care this season so far. stop watching it then, you won't affect the ever-increasing viewing figures, nor have an impact on what F1 is
Now I love F1 I always watch every race even if it isn't live but this year I have nil interest. It's becoming a farce.
Some of the problems with it
Roseberg can't put up a fight Hamilton wins it with ease. great. We're getting to see how good Hamilton is. This is mostly all history will remember.
The over takes are mainly done using drs -from the start of F1, overtaking was mostly about gentlemen moving over. Now we get wheel banging and shortcuts off track and yet no-one dies (touches a lot of wood)
The racing is s
t. from the start, good racing was irrelevant. Only winning matters, as in any TOP sport (Yes, implies all other formulae are inferior for this singular reason. Indeed, lesser formula often have to engineer fake action in order to attract fans, but those who want to see the best, watch F1).The new regs and lack of testing have killed it. Too much testing killed it. Forgotten Schumacher and Ferrari? - the ONLY period in the entirety of F1 history where the viewing figures actually declined
You have world champions fighting for 14th. used to happen a lot. Nothing new
There is that little going on we are now watching the fights for 14th. Seems more like a triumph of modern TV broadcasting to me
Big names have nil sponsorship it's actually embarrassing looking now. that's how it was from the start
Half the field lapped. often how is was from the start
There is no flat out racing often how is was from the start
The biggest cheer is a car getting wheeled off.
It's just dire this season. I know a lot love it on here and it's a bit stupid asking in here. But I can't be the only one who just doesn't care this season so far. stop watching it then, you won't affect the ever-increasing viewing figures, nor have an impact on what F1 is
mattikake said:
Sounds like you have forgotten what F1 is about.
F1 is about the fastest drivers in the world, racing the fastest track cars in the world, employing the latest technological ideas.
It's actually about money and brand.F1 is about the fastest drivers in the world, racing the fastest track cars in the world, employing the latest technological ideas.
There's a lot of money sloshing about and the brand is strong.
It's not about the fans.
And it's more about spend, strategy, and engineering than actual racing.
Financially it's flawed. A lot of money gets drawn from the sport. The money that goes to the teams is not split equally. It looks for subsidised circuits and neglects its fan base.
It is poor. As someone who has watched F1 since I was a youngster, I cannot get very excited about it. Apart from the concerns raised by other posters I would add just two more:
Apart from the occasional time when Raikkonen goes partying, the current drivers are remote, highly protected, fairly controlled in what they say. That's why every little Rosberg complaint is a headline, because it has become free of driver personality.
Secondly, the continuing threat to European races is robbing F1 of its past. France and Germany are gone.
The Netherlands, Sweden etc long gone. Bernie had issued threats against Italy saying they lost money. So, we go to China, with its long rows of empty stands.
I still watch it, but I am getting to the stage where I don't care much if I miss a race. There was a time when that would never have happened.
Apart from the occasional time when Raikkonen goes partying, the current drivers are remote, highly protected, fairly controlled in what they say. That's why every little Rosberg complaint is a headline, because it has become free of driver personality.
Secondly, the continuing threat to European races is robbing F1 of its past. France and Germany are gone.
The Netherlands, Sweden etc long gone. Bernie had issued threats against Italy saying they lost money. So, we go to China, with its long rows of empty stands.
I still watch it, but I am getting to the stage where I don't care much if I miss a race. There was a time when that would never have happened.
Dryce said:
It's actually about money and brand.
There's a lot of money sloshing about and the brand is strong.
It's not about the fans.
And it's more about spend, strategy, and engineering than actual racing.
Financially it's flawed. A lot of money gets drawn from the sport. The money that goes to the teams is not split equally. It looks for subsidised circuits and neglects its fan base.
Football is no longer a "fans" game either, TV money has become the master of Sport and F1 is a shadow of what it used to be.There's a lot of money sloshing about and the brand is strong.
It's not about the fans.
And it's more about spend, strategy, and engineering than actual racing.
Financially it's flawed. A lot of money gets drawn from the sport. The money that goes to the teams is not split equally. It looks for subsidised circuits and neglects its fan base.
RDMcG said:
I still watch it, but I am getting to the stage where I don't care much if I miss a race. There was a time when that would never have happened.
That just about sums it up for me.When BBC lost the live races and they moved to highlights I thought I'd lose something - but I've found I just don't care about the live races - in some ways I prefer just having the highlights.
Rosberg's latest whinge about Lewis and tyre management kind of sums up what's wrong at the core - as racing without actually really racing. The guys at the front have the most money and too much to lose by actually racing during the race so they set up the result during qually and then 'manage' their positions - while the guys behind can never catch up but actually race each other scrabbling for the dregs of points.
Sad. Sad waste of money, talent, and viewer time.
Dryce said:
That just about sums it up for me.
When BBC lost the live races and they moved to highlights I thought I'd lose something - but I've found I just don't care about the live races - in some ways I prefer just having the highlights.
Rosberg's latest whinge about Lewis and tyre management kind of sums up what's wrong at the core - as racing without actually really racing. The guys at the front have the most money and too much to lose by actually racing during the race so they set up the result during qually and then 'manage' their positions - while the guys behind can never catch up but actually race each other scrabbling for the dregs of points.
Sad. Sad waste of money, talent, and viewer time.
And it's always been this way. The only thing that has changed is you. You have different priorities in life. When BBC lost the live races and they moved to highlights I thought I'd lose something - but I've found I just don't care about the live races - in some ways I prefer just having the highlights.
Rosberg's latest whinge about Lewis and tyre management kind of sums up what's wrong at the core - as racing without actually really racing. The guys at the front have the most money and too much to lose by actually racing during the race so they set up the result during qually and then 'manage' their positions - while the guys behind can never catch up but actually race each other scrabbling for the dregs of points.
Sad. Sad waste of money, talent, and viewer time.
But let's not pretend that F1 used to be something that it never was.
I'll reiterate my question earlier (to all)...when was F1 this amazing series in your head? Give me a couple of seasons (open to anyone to put forward their suggestions).
+1
Yes I don't understand the problem... It has always been like this in the recent years. What's the surprise?
I admit have not followed MotoGP and Indy for a few years but remember racing being closer than F1 ever was. Still I always loved F1 for what it is.
Perhaps the corporate world we live in has tamed the drivers outburst, etc, etc making it more cold, clinical for the fans. I must be the few that still enjoy it. On the Schumacher years.... How was it different? The same guy winning 7 Championships... Surely there was a bit of dominance there? Exacerbated by team orders as well?
Yes I don't understand the problem... It has always been like this in the recent years. What's the surprise?
I admit have not followed MotoGP and Indy for a few years but remember racing being closer than F1 ever was. Still I always loved F1 for what it is.
Perhaps the corporate world we live in has tamed the drivers outburst, etc, etc making it more cold, clinical for the fans. I must be the few that still enjoy it. On the Schumacher years.... How was it different? The same guy winning 7 Championships... Surely there was a bit of dominance there? Exacerbated by team orders as well?
Glad I'm not the only one one here.
I used to love F1, but i think after SV won his third world championship, it just keeps going downhill for me.
Used to watch every qualy and race live. This season i think i have only watched the highlights of the opening gp (and i skipped through most of that)
For the people who say that the sport is as strong as ever - why are the viewing figures dropping the way they are??
I used to love F1, but i think after SV won his third world championship, it just keeps going downhill for me.
Used to watch every qualy and race live. This season i think i have only watched the highlights of the opening gp (and i skipped through most of that)
For the people who say that the sport is as strong as ever - why are the viewing figures dropping the way they are??
London424 said:
I'll reiterate my question earlier (to all)...when was F1 this amazing series in your head? Give me a couple of seasons (open to anyone to put forward their suggestions).
Ok, I'll try and answer despite my dreadful memory!For me, the most enjoyable 'modern period' came after Schumacher left the first time, and we had a young Hamilton fighting with Alonso and Kimi. Also around that time, there was an impressive Torro Rosso driver called Vettel who won his first race in grand style, hinting at more to come.
I liked it loads then. Wouldn't miss it got up early for the Asian races. I felt the racing was good, the rivalries well-matched and the BBC coverage superb. Of course there were dull races etc etc but my general impression of those seasons was excitement.
Now I'm sorry to say that the off-track politics are more entertaining than the racing. It just seems so constrained and artificial somehow.
I actually take your point about the Rose-tinted specs - I grew up on Prost Vs Senna but Im sure most of those races were dull as, if I watched them now. But I disagree about the period I mentioned. I thought it worked well.
My feeling is that the talent of the current crop of drivers deserve something much better to display their incredible skills. I accept that MV still shone yesterday and even JB and PM looked incredible at the back.
Excess spending is the crux of the problem at the front. Armies of strategists and supercomputers back at base make winning as exciting as pressing "Enter" on a spreadsheet - it is the antithesis of what racing should be. Occasional cock-ups like Malaysia gives us hope.
A sensible cap must be possible to enforce, if there is sufficient will throughout the grid. But the bloodsuckers at CVC should do the decent thing and just go. Hopefully this would get bums back on grandstand seats and races back on terrestrial TV.
The current format is probably a busted flush and urgently needs change to stop the rot. I fail to understand what someone like Hass expects to achieve from F1, beatlng Manor and then setting about Force India and Sauber cannot be sufficient motivation. There needs to be a remote possibility of winning to keep these guys throwing money at the problem. Otherwise they will all eventually head the same way as Tony Fernandez.
Excess spending is the crux of the problem at the front. Armies of strategists and supercomputers back at base make winning as exciting as pressing "Enter" on a spreadsheet - it is the antithesis of what racing should be. Occasional cock-ups like Malaysia gives us hope.
A sensible cap must be possible to enforce, if there is sufficient will throughout the grid. But the bloodsuckers at CVC should do the decent thing and just go. Hopefully this would get bums back on grandstand seats and races back on terrestrial TV.
The current format is probably a busted flush and urgently needs change to stop the rot. I fail to understand what someone like Hass expects to achieve from F1, beatlng Manor and then setting about Force India and Sauber cannot be sufficient motivation. There needs to be a remote possibility of winning to keep these guys throwing money at the problem. Otherwise they will all eventually head the same way as Tony Fernandez.
Eric Mc said:
The 20 millionth thread on this topic since PH began over a decade ago.
F1 definitely has its problems but they are more centered on management and finance of the series than on the track.
Compared to the early 2000s, the actually racing is wildly exciting.
Have to agree. F1 definitely has its problems but they are more centered on management and finance of the series than on the track.
Compared to the early 2000s, the actually racing is wildly exciting.
There were many dull races in the 80's, 90's and 2000's. People always look back rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong much can be improved.
Just as there are many dull football matches. Sometimes as of yesterday you get a tense 0-0 where not a lot happens really but it might do.
F1 is a sport can go 2 ways. Its kept purish and you basically get what you have now or it goes WWF style, reversed grides, added weight to fast cars etc.
While i think there is lots that can be done to improve the show, in terms of track design, car design, regs, how fans access to drivers, pricing etc
F1 did make a big mistake in letting the teams set the rules. Not much will now change until Bernie is gone.
mattikake said:
Sounds like you have forgotten what F1 is about.
F1 is about the fastest drivers in the world, racing the fastest track cars in the world, employing the latest technological ideas. It's not on it's knees. It's standing as tall as it ever has. The entertainment value is as a spectacle of the pinnacle of driver and design talent. It's not meant to be entertaining to watch as a racing exercise. It never has.
My God there is just so much wrong with the above. I don't want to insult you, and I get the feeling you love the sport but open your eyes.F1 is about the fastest drivers in the world, racing the fastest track cars in the world, employing the latest technological ideas. It's not on it's knees. It's standing as tall as it ever has. The entertainment value is as a spectacle of the pinnacle of driver and design talent. It's not meant to be entertaining to watch as a racing exercise. It never has.
moanthebairns said:
I'm sat watching the highlights of the F1 and I have to say this is one of the most boring races I have ever watched. that's the nature of sporting entertainment without engineered entertainment handicaps. You often get boring events in any sport - football to boxing. That's part of what makes the exciting matches/races/battles/fights, exciting. - You only like the summer because there is a winter etc.
Now I love F1 I always watch every race even if it isn't live but this year I have nil interest. It's becoming a farce.
Some of the problems with it
Roseberg can't put up a fight Hamilton wins it with ease. great. We're getting to see how good Hamilton is. This is mostly all history will remember.
The over takes are mainly done using drs -from the start of F1, overtaking was mostly about gentlemen moving over. Now we get wheel banging and shortcuts off track and yet no-one dies (touches a lot of wood)
The racing is st. from the start, good racing was irrelevant. Only winning matters, as in any TOP sport (Yes, implies all other formulae are inferior for this singular reason. Indeed, lesser formula often have to engineer fake action in order to attract fans, but those who want to see the best, watch F1).
The new regs and lack of testing have killed it. Too much testing killed it. Forgotten Schumacher and Ferrari? - the ONLY period in the entirety of F1 history where the viewing figures actually declined
You have world champions fighting for 14th. used to happen a lot. Nothing new
There is that little going on we are now watching the fights for 14th. Seems more like a triumph of modern TV broadcasting to me
Big names have nil sponsorship it's actually embarrassing looking now. that's how it was from the start
Half the field lapped. often how is was from the start
There is no flat out racing often how is was from the start
The biggest cheer is a car getting wheeled off.
It's just dire this season. I know a lot love it on here and it's a bit stupid asking in here. But I can't be the only one who just doesn't care this season so far. stop watching it then, you won't affect the ever-increasing viewing figures, nor have an impact on what F1 is
Now I love F1 I always watch every race even if it isn't live but this year I have nil interest. It's becoming a farce.
Some of the problems with it
Roseberg can't put up a fight Hamilton wins it with ease. great. We're getting to see how good Hamilton is. This is mostly all history will remember.
The over takes are mainly done using drs -from the start of F1, overtaking was mostly about gentlemen moving over. Now we get wheel banging and shortcuts off track and yet no-one dies (touches a lot of wood)
The racing is s
t. from the start, good racing was irrelevant. Only winning matters, as in any TOP sport (Yes, implies all other formulae are inferior for this singular reason. Indeed, lesser formula often have to engineer fake action in order to attract fans, but those who want to see the best, watch F1).The new regs and lack of testing have killed it. Too much testing killed it. Forgotten Schumacher and Ferrari? - the ONLY period in the entirety of F1 history where the viewing figures actually declined
You have world champions fighting for 14th. used to happen a lot. Nothing new
There is that little going on we are now watching the fights for 14th. Seems more like a triumph of modern TV broadcasting to me
Big names have nil sponsorship it's actually embarrassing looking now. that's how it was from the start
Half the field lapped. often how is was from the start
There is no flat out racing often how is was from the start
The biggest cheer is a car getting wheeled off.
It's just dire this season. I know a lot love it on here and it's a bit stupid asking in here. But I can't be the only one who just doesn't care this season so far. stop watching it then, you won't affect the ever-increasing viewing figures, nor have an impact on what F1 is
1) no handicaps - wtf is DRS then? Motorsport is meant to be exciting what planet do you live on.
2) or just how pish Roseberg is, lets remember he's a number two driver.
3) just how far back are you going, I mean come on.
4) so why are the viewing figures slumping so much if people want to watch the best with f1
5) ah the MS and Ferrari debate, firstly figures are slumping hugely just now so your wrong again. And your basically giving my fag paper argument and going to the extreme. No test = s
t, too much testing = st, a half way point? surely to God.6) when are you referring to? every race?
7) eh ok then, or maybe because there was racing at the front you never saw it. Hard to tell, actually no its not. Brundle used to go on for years that teams at the back were fighting every corner but never got any coverage as there was racing going on at the front.
8) seriously, you want to harp back to black and white races, with guys smoking in the pits showing up after their day job, jesus Christ what a weak argument. To not have a McLaren stickered up to the hill shows how "on its knees" F1 is. It would have been unthinkable 5-10 years ago. Wake up.
9) ok this has happened a bit but not up to third in some cases.
10) OMG, here we go again. Does that mean its not broken. People are waking up and tuning in elsewhere. F1 has to change. Just because its always been like this doesn't mean it has to continue. The problem before was F1 was the only motorsport to watch because it was the only real televised race to show week in week out. Now you can get motorsport 24/7 almost and its hurting F1. The move to sky is effecting the figures.
11) http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/14/as...
ever increasing viewing figures, what are you on?
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