is F1 on its knees
Discussion
RYH64E said:
Crafty_ said:
if you really are a fan (not just someone who enjoys their rose tinted glasses and telling everyone how wonderful it all was years ago), do fill in the surveys:
So you're implying that those who are dissatisfied with current F1 are not real fans? How long are you going to keep your head buried in the sand? Fortunately, the rest of the F1 world would finally appear to be accepting the fact that the tyres are s
t, the regulations are ridiculous, and the show is in decline, so maybe something might be done about it.There are a certain element of people who b
h and moan consistently about F1. If you don't like it, fine go off and do something else - if you like the 50, 40, 30 year old cars go to a historics festival etc, whatever. bhing and whining on the internet solves nothing.If, on the other hand you still like, watch and enjoy F1 but have ideas to make it better then absolutely, go do the surveys.
Thats all I was saying. If that causes you a problem maybe you should go think about your attitude.
My suggestion to improve things (or rather punish mistakes more) would be to bring back in about 6 feet of gravel trap in all these massive run off areas.
This way you still have the safety of the tarmac run off, but to get there you get the punishment of the gravel. Watching everyone keep their foot in while running wide just isn't really a punishment.
This way you still have the safety of the tarmac run off, but to get there you get the punishment of the gravel. Watching everyone keep their foot in while running wide just isn't really a punishment.
Crafty_ said:
if you really are a fan (not just someone who enjoys their rose tinted glasses and telling everyone how wonderful it all was years ago), do fill in the surveys:
GPDA survey for fans, currently overloaded, but keep trying : http://gpda.motorsport.com/
The annual autosport survey: http://surveys.haymarket.com/s3/GFC-survey-2015
I'm a bit exhausted after that! All done though...GPDA survey for fans, currently overloaded, but keep trying : http://gpda.motorsport.com/
The annual autosport survey: http://surveys.haymarket.com/s3/GFC-survey-2015
Crafty_ said:
Oh dear, here we go again.
There are a certain element of people who bh and moan consistently about F1. If you don't like it, fine go off and do something else - if you like the 50, 40, 30 year old cars go to a historics festival etc, whatever. bhing and whining on the internet solves nothing.
If, on the other hand you still like, watch and enjoy F1 but have ideas to make it better then absolutely, go do the surveys.
Thats all I was saying. If that causes you a problem maybe you should go think about your attitude.
I dread to think how bad things would have to get before you notice what's happening, but fortunately for the sport the 'emperors new clothes' phenomenon is wearing off and industry insiders are now beginning to acknowledge problems that have been apparent to many of us (not you, obviously) for a while, for example, here's what DC has to say on the subject of tyres:There are a certain element of people who b
h and moan consistently about F1. If you don't like it, fine go off and do something else - if you like the 50, 40, 30 year old cars go to a historics festival etc, whatever. bhing and whining on the internet solves nothing.If, on the other hand you still like, watch and enjoy F1 but have ideas to make it better then absolutely, go do the surveys.
Thats all I was saying. If that causes you a problem maybe you should go think about your attitude.
DC said:
You will very rarely hear them saying it publicly but, without exception, no-one in F1 likes the construction and compound range of the current tyres, and people are very negative about Pirelli as a result; hardly good PR.
The tyres are clearly part of the problem of the lack of overtaking in F1 at the moment. They are so sensitive. There is so much tyre management.
While I am commentating, I find it very difficult not to be exasperated when Mercedes suddenly go a second quicker than they have been when they need to do it.
They might not say so publicly, but I know that the current drivers are all a bit disillusioned with the current F1 because the cars are so slow compared to previous years, and the drivers are so far within their ability levels during the races.
Or if you prefer, here's a quote from a current driver:The tyres are clearly part of the problem of the lack of overtaking in F1 at the moment. They are so sensitive. There is so much tyre management.
While I am commentating, I find it very difficult not to be exasperated when Mercedes suddenly go a second quicker than they have been when they need to do it.
They might not say so publicly, but I know that the current drivers are all a bit disillusioned with the current F1 because the cars are so slow compared to previous years, and the drivers are so far within their ability levels during the races.
Alonso said:
"For the last four or five years we've been going in the wrong direction."
"We cannot run one second quicker than GP2 cars because the grandstands are empty," Alonso said. "It is a sign it was not going in the right direction.
So increasingly it looks like b"We cannot run one second quicker than GP2 cars because the grandstands are empty," Alonso said. "It is a sign it was not going in the right direction.
hing and whining on the internet and elsewhere is having an effect, that and the fact that less and less people are tuning in to watch the races let alone turn up to watch a race live.http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/32699924
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/32761397
IforB said:
F1 has always styled itself as being the fastest sport on the planet (ground based!) Le Mans isn't just about pure speed, but about endurance. Speed is of course important, but it's not the sole story.
I've been following motorsport since the 90s and for as long as I can remember LM/endurance racing has been regarded as a sprint race.RYH64E said:
I dread to think how bad things would have to get before you notice what's happening, but fortunately for the sport the 'emperors new clothes' phenomenon is wearing off and industry insiders are now beginning to acknowledge problems that have been apparent to many of us (not you, obviously) for a while, for example, here's what DC has to say on the subject of tyres:
You just don't take a fking single thing in do you ? Do not patronise me with your high and mighty stance of "I'm right and you just aren't listening". You take great pride in telling us how F1 is st and has been for a while. Why ? whats your point ? I personally think football is st, the money ludicrous, the less said about the "stars" and money makers the better. Do I go on the football forum and keep trotting out the same old criticisms every few days ? no. I have no interest and leave the fans of the sport to it.As soon as someone isn't in complete agreement with what you say you talk down to them as "not noticing" or knowing nothing. Your manner is very conceited and frankly, immature.
If you don't like F1 any more, go find something you do enjoy and go interact with that social group in a positive way.
Right now, it seems to me your hobby is talking down F1 and trying to make yourself look superior to all those "silly" fans who do actually enjoy the sport, warts and all. You couldn't be happier if F1 ceased to be and the amount of vitriol you have for anyone who dares disagree with you is quite sad I think.
People like you are part of the problem with F1. You do not add anything positive to the sport or its community of fans.
Instead of just b
hing and moaning that those nasty manufacturers got in the way of what you see as F1 or that Pirelli are making tyres with certain attributes and its all so ghastly how about actually making a positive contribution to the sport - like doing the surveys (and answering honestly), taking a more realistic view of the whole thing and understanding that some of the things that you, maybe I and/or others don't find so great - commercialisation for example. Its only little steps, but its a start.I don't understand why you get so much enjoyment out of continually knocking the sport. If you count yourself as fan of modern F1, then by all means, lets have a positive discussion on how it could be improved further. If you don't like modern F1 but do like the cars of yesteryear - thats cool, but why continue your pointless little crusade? (for reference I count "modern F1" as the last 20-25 years).
As for me "not noticing"
Show me where I said there are no problems or issues ? I didn't.
Show me where I said F1 is perfect and couldn't be better than it is now ? I haven't said that.
There do need to be changes, the cause of some of the issues and problems have been building for years, it can't be undone with the click of the fingers. More importantly there can be no kneejerk reactions, because they generally make things worse. Careful, considered changes are needed.
One of the big problems is that there are so many opinions of what should and shouldn't happen whatever gets decided will be "wrong" to some people. Looks at the recent debates "We should keep the V8s"
"lets go back to V10s"
"to hell with that, lets have an open engine format"
"I'm ok with the V6s".
"Refuelling back woohoo!"
"Aww man, refuelling sucks"
"Tyres should last the whole race"
"tyres need to be better but only last 20 laps"
"Teams should have free choice on tyres"
"Lets drop the 2 compound rule"
"The two compound rule should be abolished""
"Lets have wider tyres back"
"we don't need wider tyres, we can generate more grip through technology nowadays"
"Lets have ground effects back"
"Ground effects are too dangerous"
We are never going to please everyone.
As far as I see there is a big circlejerk going on at the moment saying "uuhh, this is s
t and this is bks" over and over. Some of the things being complained about are not new - drivers in the 60s, 70s onward were never flat out for every millisecond of every race, they did sometimes have to drive to protect the tyres, commercial stuff did get in the way of "pure racing" and so on.
I don't think any of the problems F1 currently has are anything new, but they are definitely being talked up which makes them appear worse than they are - fans, the media, the sport itself are all contributing to that.
I can remember a colleague over 20 years ago b
hing about F1 because in his day they went off to Brands Hatch, pitched a tent in the woods/infield had a few beers, a wander through the pit lane and so on. "Its all rubbish now" he said. He liked it the way it was, even then, that wasn't what the current F1 was and he was quite happy to accept he didn't like F1 any more and had little interest. Fair enough, maybe you should take a leaf out of his book.Crafty_ said:
You just don't take a fking single thing in do you ? Do not patronise me with your high and mighty stance of "I'm right and you just aren't listening". You take great pride in telling us how F1 is st and has been for a while. Why ? whats your point ? I personally think football is st, the money ludicrous, the less said about the "stars" and money makers the better. Do I go on the football forum and keep trotting out the same old criticisms every few days ? no. I have no interest and leave the fans of the sport to it.
You don't like football, you've probably never watched football and have no interest in football, that's fine, I feel the same about rugby. F1 on the other hand is a sport that I have followed for several decades and have greatly enjoyed, hence my frustration at the current state of the sport, a frustration shared by the drivers and commentators (as evidenced by quotes in my previous post). king single thing in do you ? Do not patronise me with your high and mighty stance of "I'm right and you just aren't listening". You take great pride in telling us how F1 is st and has been for a while. Why ? whats your point ? I personally think football is st, the money ludicrous, the less said about the "stars" and money makers the better. Do I go on the football forum and keep trotting out the same old criticisms every few days ? no. I have no interest and leave the fans of the sport to it.Reading your inane comments week after week about how great the race has been is completely exasperating, and your comments of 'if you don't like this s
t just fk off' are frankly insulting, not just to me but to the hundreds of thousands of other fans (and drivers) who are discerning enough to realise that what's being delivered is a pale imitation of what it used to be, and what it could be. As I've said, thankfully the problems are finally being acknowledged and hopefully will be addressed, no thanks to people like you who either can't see, or won't accept, the problems that have been only too apparent for the last few seasons.Crafty_ said:
if you really are a fan (not just someone who enjoys their rose tinted glasses and telling everyone how wonderful it all was years ago), do fill in the surveys:
GPDA survey for fans, currently overloaded, but keep trying : http://gpda.motorsport.com/
The annual autosport survey: http://surveys.haymarket.com/s3/GFC-survey-2015
done bothGPDA survey for fans, currently overloaded, but keep trying : http://gpda.motorsport.com/
The annual autosport survey: http://surveys.haymarket.com/s3/GFC-survey-2015
do not exactly fill me with optimism, they seem to be asking the wrong questions, particularly the GPDA one.
RYH64E said:
You don't like football, you've probably never watched football and have no interest in football, that's fine, I feel the same about rugby. F1 on the other hand is a sport that I have followed for several decades and have greatly enjoyed, hence my frustration at the current state of the sport, a frustration shared by the drivers and commentators (as evidenced by quotes in my previous post).
Reading your inane comments week after week about how great the race has been is completely exasperating, and your comments of 'if you don't like this st just fk off' are frankly insulting, not just to me but to the hundreds of thousands of other fans (and drivers) who are discerning enough to realise that what's being delivered is a pale imitation of what it used to be, and what it could be. As I've said, thankfully the problems are finally being acknowledged and hopefully will be addressed, no thanks to people like you who either can't see, or won't accept, the problems that have been only too apparent for the last few seasons.
Show me where I said "the racing is great" please. Off you go, find me where I said that.Reading your inane comments week after week about how great the race has been is completely exasperating, and your comments of 'if you don't like this s
t just fk off' are frankly insulting, not just to me but to the hundreds of thousands of other fans (and drivers) who are discerning enough to realise that what's being delivered is a pale imitation of what it used to be, and what it could be. As I've said, thankfully the problems are finally being acknowledged and hopefully will be addressed, no thanks to people like you who either can't see, or won't accept, the problems that have been only too apparent for the last few seasons.As usual you haven't taken in a single thing I have said, just to point it out very, very clearly:
RHY64E said:
no thanks to people like you who either can't see, or won't accept, the problems that have been only too apparent for the last few seasons.
I said:Crafty said:
As for me "not noticing"
Show me where I said there are no problems or issues ? I didn't.
Show me where I said F1 is perfect and couldn't be better than it is now ? I haven't said that.
There do need to be changes...
Please explain to me how I "can't see or will not accept that problems have been apparent". I fully expect you to not answer this, just like you never answer specific points I raise.Show me where I said there are no problems or issues ? I didn't.
Show me where I said F1 is perfect and couldn't be better than it is now ? I haven't said that.
There do need to be changes...
To call me insulting, simply because I am taking a more positive viewpoint on how to handle current issues is hilarious - I take it you consider relentless b
hing and crying a much better way then?? I can see some good things in F1 and bad things, but at least I am able to take a more balanced view than you, who cannot say a good word about the sport you apparently love - seems more like you love to hate it.
If F1 is a "pale imitation of what is used to be" why are you still watching and posting about it?
Let. It. Go.
You are trying to clamour to memories of yesteryear. The sport you loved and want doesn't exist any more within modern F1, its as simple as that. If you can learn to love both, great.
Go to the historics racing, there you will find the sport you love. Thats absolutely fine, all I suggest is you don't try and drag down modern F1, just because you don't like it.
If you want the honest truth it is never going to be the sport you think it should be and your relentless "oh its all so utterly awful" will just perpetuate forever and you'll just fill yourself with your own self importance as your last few posts show.
As far as drivers and people within the sport making their opinion known on issues, you honestly think its a new thing ? Don't make me laugh.
Scuffers said:
done both
do not exactly fill me with optimism, they seem to be asking the wrong questions, particularly the GPDA one.
Agreed, I found the some of the questions a bit awkward, I would have liked a short comment box with some of them to explain why I picked the "rating" that I did.do not exactly fill me with optimism, they seem to be asking the wrong questions, particularly the GPDA one.
Interesting comments from Vettel http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/32847548
I think he hits it on the head, like life in general- it's become a bit too sanitised. The better drivers would shine and those who simply buy drives might think twice if the car was a bit lairy. How you achieve that is up for debate..
I think he hits it on the head, like life in general- it's become a bit too sanitised. The better drivers would shine and those who simply buy drives might think twice if the car was a bit lairy. How you achieve that is up for debate..
truck71 said:
Interesting comments from Vettel http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/32847548
I think he hits it on the head, like life in general- it's become a bit too sanitised. The better drivers would shine and those who simply buy drives might think twice if the car was a bit lairy. How you achieve that is up for debate..
Good for Vettel. That's another (and current) driver saying the same as the rest. Sadly, I don't think the powers that be understand that the way to solve this is not by targeting metrics like lap time deltas or whatever. I think it's by getting rid of nonsense like that and giving a bit more free reign to the designers to build fast, extreme cars.I think he hits it on the head, like life in general- it's become a bit too sanitised. The better drivers would shine and those who simply buy drives might think twice if the car was a bit lairy. How you achieve that is up for debate..
Done the GPDA survey,wasn't expecting it to be sooooooo long! I thought a lot of the questions were trying to lead us to a conclusion....
I love F1 and have for the past thirty odd years. Over the years there have been seasons when it was boring, seasons where it was utterly fascinating with internal battles both on and off the tracks, and seasons were it was a foregone conclusion....
But, I still loved it and watched every race. Now, with Sky having all the races and the Beeb only half with highlights for the others, I feel cheated. I don't want Sky.
Also, I don't like that the cars are so much slower than they were ten years ago, safety was good then so there was no need to slow them down. I don't like the stupid (my opinion) fuel flow/usage limits - F1 should be about going fast, not about saving a tenner on petrol for the weekend. They'll be going round the supermarkets next to fill up cheaper all the while flying thousands of tons of equipment all around the world (in a very wasteful and haphazard back and forth manner) in hugely costly aeroplanes consuming millions(?) of gallons of aviation fuel...
Don't mind hybrids and turbo engines, but turn the bloody things up! The 'good old days' (tm) with the turbo 1500s putting out 1200 hp was great - grenade motors that last one lap, costly, wasteful but fun and they looked properly scary to drive. Yes, I prefer the noise of the V10s (oooh the noise!) but the old turbo motors sounded pretty good as well. The current ones that sound like a party in a misfire factory when they exit corners sound pretty poor... Honda, I'm looking at you! Incidentally, I drive a Honda hybrid...
Costs are ridiculous. Surely the sheer complexity of the formula and the rules just mean vast sums are spent to get round them? Same with the tyres. Poor old Pirelli must be ruing the day they agreed (wanted?) to be the one marque supplier. The stupid design instructions foisted on them to make the racing look more exciting cannot be doing anything positive for their image? There will never be a tyre war again until the companies are allowed to make the best tyres possible for the job. What's the point in spending a fortune to make tyres that fall apart or 'fall off a cliff' performance wise when every other weekend fans (and tyre buyers) will see your 'best tyres' crapping out in twenty minutes!
Simplify the bloody formula!
We don't need fuel use limits, we don't need tyres that fall apart, we don't need to see drivers on a Sunday afternoon cruise, we DO need to see drivers giving it their all all getting out of the cars dripping in sweat (yes, I know they are extremely fit but even so, these days they don't look like they've even raised their heartbeats!)and actually looking like they've driven a race. When it's come to the stage where other formulas are as fast or faster, we are no longer looking at F1.
I love MotoGP as well (more?) and they have some proper, epic battles. I'm not a fan of the fuel use limits in MGP either, but they still give it everything and race for all they're worth.
I loved it last year when Rosberg and Hamilton were having a rare old ding-dong weekend after weekend. This year, not so much so far.
I love F1 and have for the past thirty odd years. Over the years there have been seasons when it was boring, seasons where it was utterly fascinating with internal battles both on and off the tracks, and seasons were it was a foregone conclusion....
But, I still loved it and watched every race. Now, with Sky having all the races and the Beeb only half with highlights for the others, I feel cheated. I don't want Sky.
Also, I don't like that the cars are so much slower than they were ten years ago, safety was good then so there was no need to slow them down. I don't like the stupid (my opinion) fuel flow/usage limits - F1 should be about going fast, not about saving a tenner on petrol for the weekend. They'll be going round the supermarkets next to fill up cheaper all the while flying thousands of tons of equipment all around the world (in a very wasteful and haphazard back and forth manner) in hugely costly aeroplanes consuming millions(?) of gallons of aviation fuel...
Don't mind hybrids and turbo engines, but turn the bloody things up! The 'good old days' (tm) with the turbo 1500s putting out 1200 hp was great - grenade motors that last one lap, costly, wasteful but fun and they looked properly scary to drive. Yes, I prefer the noise of the V10s (oooh the noise!) but the old turbo motors sounded pretty good as well. The current ones that sound like a party in a misfire factory when they exit corners sound pretty poor... Honda, I'm looking at you! Incidentally, I drive a Honda hybrid...
Costs are ridiculous. Surely the sheer complexity of the formula and the rules just mean vast sums are spent to get round them? Same with the tyres. Poor old Pirelli must be ruing the day they agreed (wanted?) to be the one marque supplier. The stupid design instructions foisted on them to make the racing look more exciting cannot be doing anything positive for their image? There will never be a tyre war again until the companies are allowed to make the best tyres possible for the job. What's the point in spending a fortune to make tyres that fall apart or 'fall off a cliff' performance wise when every other weekend fans (and tyre buyers) will see your 'best tyres' crapping out in twenty minutes!
Simplify the bloody formula!
We don't need fuel use limits, we don't need tyres that fall apart, we don't need to see drivers on a Sunday afternoon cruise, we DO need to see drivers giving it their all all getting out of the cars dripping in sweat (yes, I know they are extremely fit but even so, these days they don't look like they've even raised their heartbeats!)and actually looking like they've driven a race. When it's come to the stage where other formulas are as fast or faster, we are no longer looking at F1.
I love MotoGP as well (more?) and they have some proper, epic battles. I'm not a fan of the fuel use limits in MGP either, but they still give it everything and race for all they're worth.
I loved it last year when Rosberg and Hamilton were having a rare old ding-dong weekend after weekend. This year, not so much so far.
Ahonen said:
Walford said:
Disastrous said:
truck71 said:
Interesting comments from Vettel http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/32847548
I think he hits it on the head, like life in general- it's become a bit too sanitised. The better drivers would shine and those who simply buy drives might think twice if the car was a bit lairy. How you achieve that is up for debate..
Good for Vettel. That's another (and current) driver saying the same as the rest. Sadly, I don't think the powers that be understand that the way to solve this is not by targeting metrics like lap time deltas or whatever. I think it's by getting rid of nonsense like that and giving a bit more free reign to the designers to build fast, extreme cars.I think he hits it on the head, like life in general- it's become a bit too sanitised. The better drivers would shine and those who simply buy drives might think twice if the car was a bit lairy. How you achieve that is up for debate..
I always find those sorts of comments quite funny and massively hypocritical.
Talking about a fear factor and danger when he (and others) are crying for a race to be red flagged (or not started in the first place) when it's wet. Either you want danger and all that comes with it or not.
London424 said:
I always find those sorts of comments quite funny and massively hypocritical.
Talking about a fear factor and danger when he (and others) are crying for a race to be red flagged (or not started in the first place) when it's wet. Either you want danger and all that comes with it or not.
London424 said:
I always find those sorts of comments quite funny and massively hypocritical.
Talking about a fear factor and danger when he (and others) are crying for a race to be red flagged (or not started in the first place) when it's wet. Either you want danger and all that comes with it or not.
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