is F1 on its knees
Discussion
CrgT16 said:
In my view what is unfortunate is not the quality of the racing which in fact has improved a little bit I. The past few years albeit in an artificial way... The unfortunate is that no longer F1 is a platform for manufacturers to bring crazy engines, everything is so strict and rules so rigid that development cost is just unsustainable.
I agree with everything in your post, but I particularly wanted to highlight the restrictions on innovation. That is what should separate F1 from other formula. London424 said:
Dryce said:
That just about sums it up for me.
When BBC lost the live races and they moved to highlights I thought I'd lose something - but I've found I just don't care about the live races - in some ways I prefer just having the highlights.
Rosberg's latest whinge about Lewis and tyre management kind of sums up what's wrong at the core - as racing without actually really racing. The guys at the front have the most money and too much to lose by actually racing during the race so they set up the result during qually and then 'manage' their positions - while the guys behind can never catch up but actually race each other scrabbling for the dregs of points.
Sad. Sad waste of money, talent, and viewer time.
And it's always been this way. The only thing that has changed is you. You have different priorities in life. When BBC lost the live races and they moved to highlights I thought I'd lose something - but I've found I just don't care about the live races - in some ways I prefer just having the highlights.
Rosberg's latest whinge about Lewis and tyre management kind of sums up what's wrong at the core - as racing without actually really racing. The guys at the front have the most money and too much to lose by actually racing during the race so they set up the result during qually and then 'manage' their positions - while the guys behind can never catch up but actually race each other scrabbling for the dregs of points.
Sad. Sad waste of money, talent, and viewer time.
But let's not pretend that F1 used to be something that it never was.
I'll reiterate my question earlier (to all)...when was F1 this amazing series in your head? Give me a couple of seasons (open to anyone to put forward their suggestions).
SpudLink said:
I agree with everything in your post, but I particularly wanted to highlight the restrictions on innovation. That is what should separate F1 from other formula.
Spot on on the innovation front. Couldn't agree more.I think F1 was more of an event before, screaming engines, less races. Now the engines sound a bit dull, not the ultimate innovation, lack of access due to no longer full on BBC. To be frank, too many races it just waters down the show.
I think viewers can't be bothered to watch all the races as missing one makes no big dent in the overall Championship so less views. I watch them all and I really like the technical side but if you don't know anything about the sport I can understand it may not be appealing on a first instance.
As an example I am a football fan but don't have Sky Sports so although I follow football live on the radio I don't make up the TV viewers numbers...
I have to say that I enjoyed yesterday's race. Ok the front of the pack was a bit dull but the midfield racing was excellent. Plenty of passes made outside of the DRS zone, Verstappen did some great passes, and the racing between JB and Maldonardo was good too. Some entertaining errors too, like Maldonardo in the pit lane, JB running into the Lotus etc.
TBH F1 has always been like that, in most years there is a dominant car and then a midfield where the exciting racing is.
TBH F1 has always been like that, in most years there is a dominant car and then a midfield where the exciting racing is.
revrange said:
Have to agree.
There were many dull races in the 80's, 90's and 2000's. People always look back rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong much can be improved.
Just as there are many dull football matches. Sometimes as of yesterday you get a tense 0-0 where not a lot happens really but it might do.
Good point.There were many dull races in the 80's, 90's and 2000's. People always look back rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong much can be improved.
Just as there are many dull football matches. Sometimes as of yesterday you get a tense 0-0 where not a lot happens really but it might do.
I believe Sky did some market research which showed that many F1 fans are not fans of other sports. Because they don’t watch football, cricket or rugby, there is a lack of understanding that every sport has plenty of dull, predictable contests to balance out the occasional thriller. Football has plenty of 0-0 draws, tactical stalemates are common in the Champions League. Cricket has drawn test matches, in which the final day becomes a complete waste of everybody’s time. Rugby has tryless games in which the ball seldom emerges from set pieces. Tennis has 6-0 6-0 walkovers. Etc etc.
F1 is no different, it’s just that some fans have unrealistic expectations and rose-tinted glasses. The reality is that modern F1 isn't perfect but the racing in the Pirelli / DRS era has generally been good, and certainly much better than during the Schumacher / Ferrari / indestructible Bridgestone era of the mid 2000s.
Bradgate said:
Good point.
I believe Sky did some market research which showed that many F1 fans are not fans of other sports. Because they don’t watch football, cricket or rugby, there is a lack of understanding that every sport has plenty of dull, predictable contests to balance out the occasional thriller. Football has plenty of 0-0 draws, tactical stalemates are common in the Champions League. Cricket has drawn test matches, in which the final day becomes a complete waste of everybody’s time. Rugby has tryless games in which the ball seldom emerges from set pieces. Tennis has 6-0 6-0 walkovers. Etc etc.
F1 is no different, it’s just that some fans have unrealistic expectations and rose-tinted glasses. The reality is that modern F1 isn't perfect but the racing in the Pirelli / DRS era has generally been good, and certainly much better than during the Schumacher / Ferrari / indestructible Bridgestone era of the mid 2000s.
I would add that F1 is always less interesting if you record it and fast forward to the interesting bits, you miss out on the subtleties and the build up of "what if's"I believe Sky did some market research which showed that many F1 fans are not fans of other sports. Because they don’t watch football, cricket or rugby, there is a lack of understanding that every sport has plenty of dull, predictable contests to balance out the occasional thriller. Football has plenty of 0-0 draws, tactical stalemates are common in the Champions League. Cricket has drawn test matches, in which the final day becomes a complete waste of everybody’s time. Rugby has tryless games in which the ball seldom emerges from set pieces. Tennis has 6-0 6-0 walkovers. Etc etc.
F1 is no different, it’s just that some fans have unrealistic expectations and rose-tinted glasses. The reality is that modern F1 isn't perfect but the racing in the Pirelli / DRS era has generally been good, and certainly much better than during the Schumacher / Ferrari / indestructible Bridgestone era of the mid 2000s.
Bradgate said:
revrange said:
Have to agree.
There were many dull races in the 80's, 90's and 2000's. People always look back rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong much can be improved.
Just as there are many dull football matches. Sometimes as of yesterday you get a tense 0-0 where not a lot happens really but it might do.
Good point.There were many dull races in the 80's, 90's and 2000's. People always look back rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong much can be improved.
Just as there are many dull football matches. Sometimes as of yesterday you get a tense 0-0 where not a lot happens really but it might do.
I believe Sky did some market research which showed that many F1 fans are not fans of other sports. Because they don’t watch football, cricket or rugby, there is a lack of understanding that every sport has plenty of dull, predictable contests to balance out the occasional thriller. Football has plenty of 0-0 draws, tactical stalemates are common in the Champions League. Cricket has drawn test matches, in which the final day becomes a complete waste of everybody’s time. Rugby has tryless games in which the ball seldom emerges from set pieces. Tennis has 6-0 6-0 walkovers. Etc etc.
F1 is no different, it’s just that some fans have unrealistic expectations and rose-tinted glasses. The reality is that modern F1 isn't perfect but the racing in the Pirelli / DRS era has generally been good, and certainly much better than during the Schumacher / Ferrari / indestructible Bridgestone era of the mid 2000s.
VladD said:
I still enjoy F1. Last weekend was worth watching for several reasons for me.
1) Lewis won easily.
2) Rosberg got into a paddy.
3) Kimi had a good drive.
4) Max was awesome.
5) The Button/Maldonado fight was very entertaining.
This exactly. 1) Lewis won easily.
2) Rosberg got into a paddy.
3) Kimi had a good drive.
4) Max was awesome.
5) The Button/Maldonado fight was very entertaining.
There was some great overtaking, so interesting moves and I'm really enjoying watching Ferrari come back strong, Williams sadly floundering and Sauber having a great time of it. not to mention Max is starting his career really rather well too.
OK its not perfect, but there simply isn't a sport that is.
Lost soul said:
moanthebairns said:
The over takes are mainly done using drs
The racing is s
t.
I saw plenty of scrapping going on yesterday , did we watch the same race The racing is s
t. 
No spoilers about this week moto gp but compare it with last week's to any F1 race. I normally watch F1 then moto gp when I get in the difference is unreal.
moanthebairns said:
Lost soul said:
moanthebairns said:
The over takes are mainly done using drs
The racing is st.
I saw plenty of scrapping going on yesterday , did we watch the same race The racing is s
t. "ohh goody he got another point" as someone is scraping the paint off the Lotus or redbull as he went past
I think great pass stor nosser JB! said:
As a fan I feel priced out.
Watching it at far-flung circuits or on TV is just too expensive.
The racing is OK, better than it was 10 years ago.
Its just Bernie's cash cow, until he goes, it will always be a pastiche. Q2 is the best bit of the weekend.
This is more a problem really.Current structure is killing the sport from its European heartland.Watching it at far-flung circuits or on TV is just too expensive.
The racing is OK, better than it was 10 years ago.
Its just Bernie's cash cow, until he goes, it will always be a pastiche. Q2 is the best bit of the weekend.
There are only a few places where the sport can pull 100,000 race day and it isn't in Abaoilcashstain
Always believe Italian, British, Germany, Monaco and French GP's should be set in stone
Ticket prices kept down, and a realisation that long term it not good for the sport if there is no German GP
Just 23 pages as of now on the 'Official' thread, and most of that is ripping the piss out of Rosberg. Sums it up for this season for me. 2x2 rankings at the chequered flag is the natural pinnacle of the sport, where all other variables have been ironed out.
'When I were a lad', true enough, there was nothing more boring than watching Senna/Prost/Mansell/Lauda bugger off into the distance without too much competition. But there was always the risk that the engine/gearbox/brakes would let go. Renault aside, with just four engines per year now, they have to build in reliability at the expense of performance and fragility. When did you last see a leader of a race suffer a mechanical retirement? Pit stop errors are almost erradicated, so once you've seen the first corner these days, that's about that.
The rules are just so tight these days for a team to dream something 'different' up - reference Adrian Newey.
The circuits are mainly facsimiles of each other - I struggle to tell the difference between China, Malaysia, Bahrain etc... Even all the sponsorship is the same from track to track.
And I know it's not PC to say it anymore, but drivers in the pre 1980's really were putting their lives on the line. I absolutely accept that watching people getting seriously injured or dying is not an acceptable for of entertainment, but 'in the old days', it certainly added real sense of danger at the start of any race.
The younger generations will fully accept the technicalisation (is that a word?) of the sport these days with banks of technicians in the pits controlling every aspect of the race, with dozens more back at base calculating fuel flow rates, pit stop windows, tyre pressures, drivers heartbeat blahdy blah... That's where it's at these days.
F1 has succeeded. It's perfect. So it's time for something else. For me... (Others may disagree, but that's allowed)
'When I were a lad', true enough, there was nothing more boring than watching Senna/Prost/Mansell/Lauda bugger off into the distance without too much competition. But there was always the risk that the engine/gearbox/brakes would let go. Renault aside, with just four engines per year now, they have to build in reliability at the expense of performance and fragility. When did you last see a leader of a race suffer a mechanical retirement? Pit stop errors are almost erradicated, so once you've seen the first corner these days, that's about that.
The rules are just so tight these days for a team to dream something 'different' up - reference Adrian Newey.
The circuits are mainly facsimiles of each other - I struggle to tell the difference between China, Malaysia, Bahrain etc... Even all the sponsorship is the same from track to track.
And I know it's not PC to say it anymore, but drivers in the pre 1980's really were putting their lives on the line. I absolutely accept that watching people getting seriously injured or dying is not an acceptable for of entertainment, but 'in the old days', it certainly added real sense of danger at the start of any race.
The younger generations will fully accept the technicalisation (is that a word?) of the sport these days with banks of technicians in the pits controlling every aspect of the race, with dozens more back at base calculating fuel flow rates, pit stop windows, tyre pressures, drivers heartbeat blahdy blah... That's where it's at these days.
F1 has succeeded. It's perfect. So it's time for something else. For me... (Others may disagree, but that's allowed)
I'm seeing a definite decline in interest generally amongst my friends. I no longer need to avoid Facebook if I missed the race live. Plus the forums here are definitely quieter than previous years and my office is talking about it much less too.
I'm finding my interest waning, I agree that it's often the build up of what might happen that keeps the interest rather than action every race so I'm not naive enough to expect Canada 2011 every time.
I like the new engines, I like seeing Lewis win, Alonso and Button making the best with what they've got and hell I even like seeing Vettel do well in the Ferrari. So why am I losing interest? :s that's the question F1 needs to ask itself, what is missing?
I'm finding my interest waning, I agree that it's often the build up of what might happen that keeps the interest rather than action every race so I'm not naive enough to expect Canada 2011 every time.
I like the new engines, I like seeing Lewis win, Alonso and Button making the best with what they've got and hell I even like seeing Vettel do well in the Ferrari. So why am I losing interest? :s that's the question F1 needs to ask itself, what is missing?
550M said:
The rules are just so tight these days for a team to dream something 'different' up - reference Adrian Newey.
Agree with most of the above post, especially this. Although less restrictions will allow big budget teams to generally win, it also allows smaller teams to do something clever and slay the giants.550M said:
And I know it's not PC to say it anymore, but drivers in the pre 1980's really were putting their lives on the line. I absolutely accept that watching people getting seriously injured or dying is not an acceptable for of entertainment, but 'in the old days', it certainly added real sense of danger at the start of any race.
Indeed, and so did the pit crews, although maybe it wasn't totally obvious at the time.There was something more close to reality about the guys doing the pit stops, maybe that was part of the appeal.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff