Hamilton and Button tax avoidance
Discussion
k paying ANY tax if I were in their position. It'll just go to the benefit cheats to purchase their booze, fags and frozen pizzas.Steamer said:
Truckosaurus said:
Also, before he was famous Lewis used to park his sign-written Mercedes C-class "Lewis Hamilton - Racing Driver" in Stevenage Leisure Park for free and walk across to the train station rather than pay for parking at the station itself.
The cheapskate
That alone is the only bit of information I'm taking from this thread.The cheapskate
If true - and I really hope it is: Brilliant!
...And I choose to believe it was written in a brush-script font and made from neon vinyl
http://www.stevenageleisurepark.co.uk/center-infor...
Tango13 said:
Steamer said:
Truckosaurus said:
Also, before he was famous Lewis used to park his sign-written Mercedes C-class "Lewis Hamilton - Racing Driver" in Stevenage Leisure Park for free and walk across to the train station rather than pay for parking at the station itself.
The cheapskate
That alone is the only bit of information I'm taking from this thread.The cheapskate
If true - and I really hope it is: Brilliant!
...And I choose to believe it was written in a brush-script font and made from neon vinyl
http://www.stevenageleisurepark.co.uk/center-infor...
beanbag said:
But if I had to choose, I'd opt for Costa too as Starbucks coffee tastes grim. I find the beans are very bitter and taste burnt.
Glad it's not only me.Now on this tax thing. I bet your mates have some Zep or Floyd or Genesis in their collections? If so then all these and most of their contemporaries chose to avoid UK tax by living abroad.
I am not a tax expert, but I don't think there's a concept of being taxed in each jurisdiction in which you work. If there was, I'd have been paying tax in every European country every year...I'm pretty sure you are taxed under the jurisdiction in which you live. So that's Monaco for most F1 drivers....
Lotus E300S said:
Had a discussion with a few friends last night (none F1 fans) who were so anti Hamilton/Button because of the tax status they hold, argument was they have had the benefit of British schools/nhs etc while growing up but as soon as they had become successful and rich they turn their backs on the UK choosing to live in tax exiles overseas
I suppose my friends have a point?
So, to be clear, let us say that your friends earnt 10m a year, they would be happy to pay 4,000,000 in tax? Rather than keep as much of that money as possible, they would generously donate it to the Govt so they can pay for MPs' moats to be cleaned, duck houses finished, homes their parents live in paid for, fine wines they drink at discount in the commons bar etc.. All these things they would gladly give 4m of their money to pay for rather than keep it for their own houses, duck ponds, wine collections etcI suppose my friends have a point?
funkyrobot said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
No.
Can you explain why?Studio117 said:
It sounds like the jealous claptrap spouted by members of the public sector. Or the 'hard of thinking' as i like to call them.
While the green eyed resentful are usually not the mob I care to defend, and while I don't blame LH JB and other for doing what the system allows them to do, the complaint is genuine. Their wealth is dependant on the rest of society, of the companies that pay their wages becasuse of the serfs buying the goods, and wider society that enables them to enjoy their wealth because of the proles making the products and services they need. I don't see many farms, oil refinaries, supercar factories etc in monaco.. What if 2000 somalian pirates parked a ship in the harbour at guernsey or monaco? It'd be ours or the frenchies taxpayer funded armies and navys that'd come rushing to their aid... without tax-paying societies to support them their money would be worthless and wouldn't exist in the first place, so to dodge out of their own contribution is always going to get criticism.Jasandjules said:
So, to be clear, let us say that your friends earnt 10m a year, they would be happy to pay 4,000,000 in tax? Rather than keep as much of that money as possible, they would generously donate it to the Govt so they can pay for MPs' moats to be cleaned, duck houses finished, homes their parents live in paid for, fine wines they drink at discount in the commons bar etc.. All these things they would gladly give 4m of their money to pay for rather than keep it for their own houses, duck ponds, wine collections etc
That's a bit tricky though because the same argument applies surely if his friends earn 1m and have to pay 400k in tax, or 100k and have to pay 40k in tax. That's the nice thing about percentages. I think the argument is much more that they, in fact everyone, should do everything legal they can to minimise the tax they pay. I'm surprised there's even a debate about it as everyone would do the same, does do the same and should do the same.....hairyben said:
Studio117 said:
It sounds like the jealous claptrap spouted by members of the public sector. Or the 'hard of thinking' as i like to call them.
While the green eyed resentful are usually not the mob I care to defend, and while I don't blame LH JB and other for doing what the system allows them to do, the complaint is genuine. Their wealth is dependant on the rest of society, of the companies that pay their wages becasuse of the serfs buying the goods, and wider society that enables them to enjoy their wealth because of the proles making the products and services they need. I don't see many farms, oil refinaries, supercar factories etc in monaco.. What if 2000 somalian pirates parked a ship in the harbour at guernsey or monaco? It'd be ours or the frenchies taxpayer funded armies and navys that'd come rushing to their aid... without tax-paying societies to support them their money would be worthless and wouldn't exist in the first place, so to dodge out of their own contribution is always going to get criticism.So - those who are in that position will pay the appropriate tax in the nation they are actually in.
Jasandjules said:
Lotus E300S said:
Had a discussion with a few friends last night (none F1 fans) who were so anti Hamilton/Button because of the tax status they hold, argument was they have had the benefit of British schools/nhs etc while growing up but as soon as they had become successful and rich they turn their backs on the UK choosing to live in tax exiles overseas
I suppose my friends have a point?
So, to be clear, let us say that your friends earnt 10m a year, they would be happy to pay 4,000,000 in tax? Rather than keep as much of that money as possible, they would generously donate it to the Govt so they can pay for MPs' moats to be cleaned, duck houses finished, homes their parents live in paid for, fine wines they drink at discount in the commons bar etc.. All these things they would gladly give 4m of their money to pay for rather than keep it for their own houses, duck ponds, wine collections etcI suppose my friends have a point?
rubystone said:
Glad it's not only me.
Now on this tax thing. I bet your mates have some Zep or Floyd or Genesis in their collections? If so then all these and most of their contemporaries chose to avoid UK tax by living abroad.
I am not a tax expert, but I don't think there's a concept of being taxed in each jurisdiction in which you work. If there was, I'd have been paying tax in every European country every year...I'm pretty sure you are taxed under the jurisdiction in which you live. So that's Monaco for most F1 drivers....
Back then tax was around 95% so you can't blame anybody for going overseas, but with the highest rate of tax now 45% the argument was that it is just greed and immoral, Now on this tax thing. I bet your mates have some Zep or Floyd or Genesis in their collections? If so then all these and most of their contemporaries chose to avoid UK tax by living abroad.
I am not a tax expert, but I don't think there's a concept of being taxed in each jurisdiction in which you work. If there was, I'd have been paying tax in every European country every year...I'm pretty sure you are taxed under the jurisdiction in which you live. So that's Monaco for most F1 drivers....
Immoral I thought was a bit harsh?
Eric Mc said:
hairyben said:
Studio117 said:
It sounds like the jealous claptrap spouted by members of the public sector. Or the 'hard of thinking' as i like to call them.
While the green eyed resentful are usually not the mob I care to defend, and while I don't blame LH JB and other for doing what the system allows them to do, the complaint is genuine. Their wealth is dependant on the rest of society, of the companies that pay their wages becasuse of the serfs buying the goods, and wider society that enables them to enjoy their wealth because of the proles making the products and services they need. I don't see many farms, oil refinaries, supercar factories etc in monaco.. What if 2000 somalian pirates parked a ship in the harbour at guernsey or monaco? It'd be ours or the frenchies taxpayer funded armies and navys that'd come rushing to their aid... without tax-paying societies to support them their money would be worthless and wouldn't exist in the first place, so to dodge out of their own contribution is always going to get criticism.So - those who are in that position will pay the appropriate tax in the nation they are actually in.
A comparison, while I wouldn't compare the example in terms of gravity, is that those who go to countries for child-sex where it's "legal" can still be prosecuted when they return.
I guess it depends on your beliefs and how you act really. If they feel that strongly and act in line with their beliefs then good for them.
Personally, I see no issue with it though. I'm a British citizen who now lives overseas, and although lower tax wasn't the main motivation to move it certainly helps a lot. In the UK I was a middle income earner, and when we had a child it was difficult to maintain a decent lifestyle while paying for childcare and getting nothing in return from HM Treasury. Those are the rules and that's fair enough, so I moved to a country where being the sole income in a family with a child means I pay less tax than I would if I was single.
At the end of the day countries set tax rules and are in a competitive environment with high earners who can be mobile more easily than most of the population. Luxembourg, Monaco, Switzerland and a few others work on the basis that if they attract the wealthiest people even a small percentage of their income is worth having. In France, Holland and a few others you have to bend over and remember to bring the Vaseline.
If the authorities were free to cut a deal with the likes of Hamilton and Button to take 10% of their global income then everyone would be better off, but the choice is 45% or nothing so Lewis' £29m a year doesn't come near the UK and I'd do exactly the same in his position.
Personally, I see no issue with it though. I'm a British citizen who now lives overseas, and although lower tax wasn't the main motivation to move it certainly helps a lot. In the UK I was a middle income earner, and when we had a child it was difficult to maintain a decent lifestyle while paying for childcare and getting nothing in return from HM Treasury. Those are the rules and that's fair enough, so I moved to a country where being the sole income in a family with a child means I pay less tax than I would if I was single.
At the end of the day countries set tax rules and are in a competitive environment with high earners who can be mobile more easily than most of the population. Luxembourg, Monaco, Switzerland and a few others work on the basis that if they attract the wealthiest people even a small percentage of their income is worth having. In France, Holland and a few others you have to bend over and remember to bring the Vaseline.
If the authorities were free to cut a deal with the likes of Hamilton and Button to take 10% of their global income then everyone would be better off, but the choice is 45% or nothing so Lewis' £29m a year doesn't come near the UK and I'd do exactly the same in his position.
troc said:
Eric Mc said:
Discussion of "non-doms" is entirely irrelevant when talking about Hamilton or Button. They are, in fact, both UK domiciled. They were both born in the UK and a person retains their domicile of birth no matter where they end up living. To lose your domicile of birth you have to make very, very affirmative renouncements of your country of birth. As far as I know, neither Hamilton nor Button have ever done this.
They simply do not pay UK tax because they are not resident in the UK.
Exactly this They simply do not pay UK tax because they are not resident in the UK.
I am also British by birth but choose to live and work in another country (The Netherlands). I therefore pay my taxes in that country.
Well, actually I don't really pay any tax at all but that's another matter
Lotus E300S said:
If it meant they could keep 6 million they would be more than happy I would think, they would probably give most of that to charity as well knowing them.
Sorry, but I think that is bull***t.It is easy enough to say when you are "only" on 100k that you would pay full tax if you were on 10m BUT if you were actually facing a 4 MILLION pound tax bill, you would look to reduce it.
I bet your friends have ISAs and other methods of tax reduction as well..... If so, they are 100% lying either to you or themselves if they think they'd happily pay 4m in tax rather than find ways to reduce it.
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