Audi to F1 now?
Discussion
Crafty_ said:
The problem you will face is CVC want a very large pound of flesh out of their investment. Bernie basically walks a line between the teams, the FIA and CVC & other 'owners'.
Remove bernie and CVC will just scalp their investment for money.
I know and understand what you are saying, but think that a fresh approach to the direction of that line would be good. Bernie is pretty much continuing with the way he has done things before (and they worked very well) but the world is different today and a much more open, sharing place than Bernie believes. That openness and sharing can be extremely profitable and a fresh perspective working for CVC should be able to unlock that for them, enabling a greater return on investment with greater involvement for fans and teams alike. Let me dream and hope at least! Remove bernie and CVC will just scalp their investment for money.
Audi have been pretty good with some of these points in the WEC campaigns so hopefully could be part of a more open culture, as Mercedes try to offer with their F1 involvement. There is the wider point of the value of publicity gained by Mercedes from F1 compared to investment and how massively different that is the ratio Audi currently experience through WEC - they must be aware of that, and after all the years of success for Audi in WEC more wins probably have diminishing returns.
rallycross said:
f1 is a mess why would vw/Audi put any money into it?
Run badly, corrupt behind the scenes, diminishing audiences boring to watch.
There is marketing benefit (and imho, some engineering benefit) to being in F1 but I don't see it for VAG, given their involvement in WEC.Run badly, corrupt behind the scenes, diminishing audiences boring to watch.
The rest of your post is stereotypical "lets get on the bash F1 bandwagon". There is plenty of interest going on right now, both on and off the track in F1.
Crafty_ said:
The rest of your post is stereotypical "lets get on the bash F1 bandwagon". There is plenty of interest going on right now, both on and off the track in F1.
Where? I can't see any. Racing - mostly dull this year. Opener was a joke, 2nd round ok ish and third one was such a let down after elms/wec silverstone that i think i hoovered the floor part way though to spice up my life.
Enginering - No cool innovations, because all the teams are working on making the drivetrain work. What's the most interesting update so far this season? merc's new front wing with an extra vortex generator? Nothing near as cool as sneaky mass damers, coanda, exhausts, f duct, fric, etc etc.
People - well alonso has a beard, hamilton a new chain for his harley, and rosberg looks unhappy. Elsewhere, there's some really exciting new talent, but we can't work out the detail because their cars can't do a race distance.
Yeah, f1 is great this year. Audi must be rubbing their handa together with excitement.
Crafty_ said:
Remove bernie and CVC will just scalp their investment for money.
What would be the difference to what they are doing already?I don't see CVC adding anything to F1 they are just using their investment in it as leverage for other business concerns, and are taking money out frequently.
there's only so much 'scalping' they can do or their investment will fail and stop laying them golden eggs.
I think Bernie is well past his best. His vision of F1 is dated and it's getting harder for him to justify his business model.
Sooner or later the sport is going to have to do without Bernie. He's run the thing for so long and has setup such a byzantine hierarchy that right now he's about the only person that can keep it running.
There's a list of problems with F1 though and the biggest is that the inmates are running the asylum. A sports competitors should have little to no say in the rules of their sport. In F1 the big teams have a disproportionate say in the rules, and a disproportionate share of the prize money. That's a major conflict of interest for obvious reasons.
Until that gets sorted out the other problems are small change. I doubt that can be sorted out without removing Bernie and CVC from the equation.
I'm enjoying the racing this year, but I think that it could be much better with more teams on the grid.
I'd love to see Audi join F1. A Merdeces/Audi rivalry would be great to watch. 2 large German manufacturers both with pedigree and lots of cash, what's not to like.
Some Gump said:
Where? I can't see any.
Racing - mostly dull this year. Opener was a joke, 2nd round ok ish and third one was such a let down after elms/wec silverstone that i think i hoovered the floor part way though to spice up my life.
Enginering - No cool innovations, because all the teams are working on making the drivetrain work. What's the most interesting update so far this season? merc's new front wing with an extra vortex generator? Nothing near as cool as sneaky mass damers, coanda, exhausts, f duct, fric, etc etc.
People - well alonso has a beard, hamilton a new chain for his harley, and rosberg looks unhappy. Elsewhere, there's some really exciting new talent, but we can't work out the detail because their cars can't do a race distance.
Yeah, f1 is great this year. Audi must be rubbing their handa together with excitement.
Racing - mostly dull this year. Opener was a joke, 2nd round ok ish and third one was such a let down after elms/wec silverstone that i think i hoovered the floor part way though to spice up my life.
Enginering - No cool innovations, because all the teams are working on making the drivetrain work. What's the most interesting update so far this season? merc's new front wing with an extra vortex generator? Nothing near as cool as sneaky mass damers, coanda, exhausts, f duct, fric, etc etc.
People - well alonso has a beard, hamilton a new chain for his harley, and rosberg looks unhappy. Elsewhere, there's some really exciting new talent, but we can't work out the detail because their cars can't do a race distance.
Yeah, f1 is great this year. Audi must be rubbing their handa together with excitement.
Racing - did you not see Verstappen's overtakes ? a 17 year old kid driving like a seasoned professional? its all quite gentlemanly at STR right now, but both he and Sainz know they've been pitched against each other. Not only do we have a battle of the Ferraris against Mercedes but Ferrari vs Ferrari with Kimi in a car he actually likes now and Vettel being fast but a little inconsistent - especially in the last race. Rosberg has struggled mentally but I think is going to come back at Lewis now, Further down the field you've got an improving Lotus trying to catch Williams, who themselves know they need to catch Ferrari to keepp the momentum going. Perez in the Force India is maturing well and producing some good results, Hulkenberg struggling at times.
The McLaren pair are also interesting to watch.
Engineering - no cool innovations ? what about Ferraris clever new rear suspension ? Or the radial turbine in the Honda ? or the various so called "S ducts" ? or the revised blown wheelnuts that were seen in testing ?
People - How about Arrivabene turning up at Ferrari and by all accounts settling in nicely ? Or Dave Richards being in the Manor garage at the last race ? or, in fact the struggle that Lowdon & co have had to come back to the grid, (thats imho they should be congratulated on). What about a Vettel finally looking more at ease ? an ever strengthening Hamilton? Rosberg struggling mentally and driving worse as a result ? Ron Dennis facing the hardest time he's had at McLaren, but still keeping a smile on his face for the cameras ?
Lots going on, but you've probably been too busy with the "F1 is crap blah blah" to actually notice.
/rant
VictorCharlie said:
What would be the difference to what they are doing already?
I don't see CVC adding anything to F1 they are just using their investment in it as leverage for other business concerns, and are taking money out frequently.
there's only so much 'scalping' they can do or their investment will fail and stop laying them golden eggs.
I think Bernie is well past his best. His vision of F1 is dated and it's getting harder for him to justify his business model.
Sooner or later the sport is going to have to do without Bernie. He's run the thing for so long and has setup such a byzantine hierarchy that right now he's about the only person that can keep it running.
There's a list of problems with F1 though and the biggest is that the inmates are running the asylum. A sports competitors should have little to no say in the rules of their sport. In F1 the big teams have a disproportionate say in the rules, and a disproportionate share of the prize money. That's a major conflict of interest for obvious reasons.
Until that gets sorted out the other problems are small change. I doubt that can be sorted out without removing Bernie and CVC from the equation.
I'm enjoying the racing this year, but I think that it could be much better with more teams on the grid.
I'd love to see Audi join F1. A Merdeces/Audi rivalry would be great to watch. 2 large German manufacturers both with pedigree and lots of cash, what's not to like.
I agree with quite a few of your points - F1 is definitely failing on the social media/fan interaction side of things and Bernie is a big part of that.I don't see CVC adding anything to F1 they are just using their investment in it as leverage for other business concerns, and are taking money out frequently.
there's only so much 'scalping' they can do or their investment will fail and stop laying them golden eggs.
I think Bernie is well past his best. His vision of F1 is dated and it's getting harder for him to justify his business model.
Sooner or later the sport is going to have to do without Bernie. He's run the thing for so long and has setup such a byzantine hierarchy that right now he's about the only person that can keep it running.
There's a list of problems with F1 though and the biggest is that the inmates are running the asylum. A sports competitors should have little to no say in the rules of their sport. In F1 the big teams have a disproportionate say in the rules, and a disproportionate share of the prize money. That's a major conflict of interest for obvious reasons.
Until that gets sorted out the other problems are small change. I doubt that can be sorted out without removing Bernie and CVC from the equation.
I'm enjoying the racing this year, but I think that it could be much better with more teams on the grid.
I'd love to see Audi join F1. A Merdeces/Audi rivalry would be great to watch. 2 large German manufacturers both with pedigree and lots of cash, what's not to like.
CVC will just squeeze ever harder, they don't really care or know about the sport - which is why Bernie is there. I do believe that Bernie is going back to them and saying "we need to do this" and "we can't do that", if he is removed they'll just get an accountant to run things.
I don't think CVC or Bernie really care about who gets what prize money - if they all got the same it makes no difference to CVC/Bernie. there needs to be a seismic shift in the attitudes of the big teams for equal distribution to happen - that isn't going to come any time soon.
I agree on the prize money thing too, teams simply can't be allowed to organise/run the sport - that will end in disaster in short order, just look at how long FOTA lasted. What I'd like to see is people who understand (and love) the sport but also understand the fans and business to be entrusted with it. Lauda, Brundle, Brawn - people like that. Certainly I don't believe that one person can replace Bernie.
More teams would be good, and whilst I'm hugely impressed with Manor and what they are doing we don't need another HRT / Andrea Moda etc in F1. I await Haas's entry with interest - if he can make a go of F1, it may encourage others. From what I've seen he's being very realistic, but we'll just have to see how long his patience lasts.
Edited by Crafty_ on Sunday 26th April 20:58
Some Gump said:
When Renault kicked arse, they sold a few special edition Clios, and still failed to sell any upmarket exec cars / anything aporty in high numbers.
The Prost years enabled Renault to reposition itself away from 'the car of the peasant' in France. Sales doubled during that period.When Mansell was at his peak on the Renault powered Williams, Renault sales in the UK rose 11% and F1 was instrumental in re-positioning the brand here, a position that it remains in since.
Alonso's peak in the Renault lead to a 15% increase in sales in Spain.
Crafty_ said:
I agree with quite a few of your points - F1 is definitely failing on the social media/fan interaction side of things and Bernie is a big part of that.
I always appear to disagree with you on some minor point. Sorry 
. But I don't really think the social media is lacking. On twitter the teams are constantly tweeting stuff. Don't use Bookface so don't know but I don't want Bernie to do F1 social media.I think the problem is one of engagement and being behind a pay wall doesn't help. Being really expensive to watch live (at least in Britain) also doesn't help.
The fan interaction in F1 I agree is nonsense. WEC is so awesome. I can point my big lens to the actual Audi racing car and take details of photos of it whilst in the garage, and Dr Wolfgang Ulrich was there too!
There were people that bought tickets to offer as a christmas present and genuinely excited they could just go into the pitlane. Total noobs on this live racing malarkey. Was just a family day out where they could just go anywhere even inside the wing.
F1 is too big for its own shoes atm. Whoever is making passes hard to get is also destroying it as a business facilitator. The level of control being imposed by CVC is too much. And you can see in the interviews everyone is just scared of criticising. You'd want your cars on TV right?
WEC also has the advantage of broadcasters like RLM being really active on twitter and having reporters in the pitlane doing live interviews, but the length of the races helps that. In F1 you can now talk to the pit wall but whatever.
But we shouldn't really be comparing.
Everyone complains about CVC and Bernie but forgets how appaling Todt and the FIA have been in relation to F1. It feels like everyone has just given up
.F1 is failing on the social media front.
Compare to NASCAR, when there is a race on there is a free live tracker, if I pay $60 (£45) for the year I can watch from inside any car, I can listen to the driver talking to his crew chief and his spotter and them talking to him as well as the officials channel, watch replays of every pit stop, it also includes an extra tracker. This covers the sprint cup (36 races + duels + all star race) and all the xfinity races too.
For just $20 for the year I can get all the radio stuff.
There are enforced fan signing sessions and other obligations/appearances that the drivers must do, strictly for the fans. Its a much more accessible format.
Aside from twitter accounts there are team reps on forums like reddit, drivers do Q&A sessions on there quite frequently, hell /r/dogecoin even got enough money together to sponsor Josh Wise in a couple of races!
NASCAR have suggested that in future telemetry from every car will also be available.
For a high tech sport, F1 is way, way behind what some might say is a bunch of rednecks going round in circles..
Compare to NASCAR, when there is a race on there is a free live tracker, if I pay $60 (£45) for the year I can watch from inside any car, I can listen to the driver talking to his crew chief and his spotter and them talking to him as well as the officials channel, watch replays of every pit stop, it also includes an extra tracker. This covers the sprint cup (36 races + duels + all star race) and all the xfinity races too.
For just $20 for the year I can get all the radio stuff.
There are enforced fan signing sessions and other obligations/appearances that the drivers must do, strictly for the fans. Its a much more accessible format.
Aside from twitter accounts there are team reps on forums like reddit, drivers do Q&A sessions on there quite frequently, hell /r/dogecoin even got enough money together to sponsor Josh Wise in a couple of races!
NASCAR have suggested that in future telemetry from every car will also be available.
For a high tech sport, F1 is way, way behind what some might say is a bunch of rednecks going round in circles..
Crafty_ said:
For a high tech sport, F1 is way, way behind what some might say is a bunch of rednecks going round in circles..
If F1 produced a subscription website that had a few levels that ideally used social media it would be something like:Free: Live timing from race weekends. Circuit guides/team guides/interviews/behind the scenes 5 min pieces - all of which is available via YouTube as well as the F1 site itself. Race highlights available 48 hours after the race is done.
Basic: (£5/race weekend) all the free stuff as well as live video from race weekends, let you view in car footage of your favourite drivers or the main video feed, improved live timing with a circuit tracker.
Deluxe (£25/race weekend) all of that + team radio access, extra super timing with bells and whistles, access to exclusive driver signings and Q&A sessions at race weekends, priority ticket booking for races.
They'd plug it on Twitter/Facebook/instagram/pinterest etc and that would draw in newer F1 fans and more people would go to races.
F1 should look at what NASCAR and WEC etc etc are doing online and pay some TV and marketing people to completely blow that out of the water. It's not like they are short on cash.
Crafty_ said:
The problem you will face is CVC want a very large pound of flesh out of their investment. Bernie basically walks a line between the teams, the FIA and CVC & other 'owners'.
Remove bernie and CVC will just scalp their investment for money.
You also have many moves.Remove bernie and CVC will just scalp their investment for money.
Do CVC think Merc will be happy the german GP been thrown in the bin, or that Ferrari are impressed with the Monza could easily go soon. Also the decline for free to air will annoy them & other sponsors
CVC have invested £0 since owning the sport apart and skimmed £billions.
Ferrari and Merc are already lining up their ducks, together for next agreement. Don't forget current one only lasts till 2020. Bernie will try his divide and conquer technique, i just hope they last out this time.
VictorCharlie said:
If F1 produced a subscription website that had a few levels that ideally used social media it would be something like:
Free: Live timing from race weekends. Circuit guides/team guides/interviews/behind the scenes 5 min pieces - all of which is available via YouTube as well as the F1 site itself. Race highlights available 48 hours after the race is done.
Basic: (£5/race weekend) all the free stuff as well as live video from race weekends, let you view in car footage of your favourite drivers or the main video feed, improved live timing with a circuit tracker.
Deluxe (£25/race weekend) all of that + team radio access, extra super timing with bells and whistles, access to exclusive driver signings and Q&A sessions at race weekends, priority ticket booking for races.
They'd plug it on Twitter/Facebook/instagram/pinterest etc and that would draw in newer F1 fans and more people would go to races.
F1 should look at what NASCAR and WEC etc etc are doing online and pay some TV and marketing people to completely blow that out of the water. It's not like they are short on cash.
Problem with most of that would be the TV channels have brought the rights. People forget Bernie was 10 years ahead of anyone on digital TV, but it flopped as infrastructure like broadband connection or digital tv's were still not common place.Free: Live timing from race weekends. Circuit guides/team guides/interviews/behind the scenes 5 min pieces - all of which is available via YouTube as well as the F1 site itself. Race highlights available 48 hours after the race is done.
Basic: (£5/race weekend) all the free stuff as well as live video from race weekends, let you view in car footage of your favourite drivers or the main video feed, improved live timing with a circuit tracker.
Deluxe (£25/race weekend) all of that + team radio access, extra super timing with bells and whistles, access to exclusive driver signings and Q&A sessions at race weekends, priority ticket booking for races.
They'd plug it on Twitter/Facebook/instagram/pinterest etc and that would draw in newer F1 fans and more people would go to races.
F1 should look at what NASCAR and WEC etc etc are doing online and pay some TV and marketing people to completely blow that out of the water. It's not like they are short on cash.
So in some ways you can forgive Bernie for not running in again to provide a full digital experience. I believe this service was offered alongside normal TV, and was £5 a race or something. So your thinking is not new.
As said before in terms of social media the teams provide huge amount of content and yes the F1 app should be free and actually work!
The problem isn't so much lack of social media as access for fans, ticket prices. Lots of low lying fruit here, as new new Ferrari principle said, why not have the drivers press confence held in the middle of the city the circus is visiting or a big stadiums. Follow this up with some music etc, and make it very cheap to go to, suddenly your bringing more people into F1. The pit lane could be opened up for normal fans as well say early evening for a couple of hours, and as the FIA manages to get drivers to stand at the front of the grid, before a race, it can ask the drivers to attend to sign autographs.
someone somewhere might have a concise list of every half baked porsche/vag-brand-to-F1 rumour from the last 20 years but they'd probably bust the internet if they tried to post it. I'll believe when they say it.
What vag should actually do is sponsor the "VOLKSWAGON-AUDI" german GP, they could build the track in/to incorporate the shape of the audi logo and give out huge chrome VW roundel trophies to the winners, bet that would piss merc off.
What vag should actually do is sponsor the "VOLKSWAGON-AUDI" german GP, they could build the track in/to incorporate the shape of the audi logo and give out huge chrome VW roundel trophies to the winners, bet that would piss merc off.
Some Gump said:
I don't buy it. I can see huge potential pitfaalls, and virtually nil upside.
The place to develop relevent tech is WEC, they're already there twice.
The place to sell the sporty brands is by having the actual cars racing - blancpain, all the local / semi international GT series - they're there with 4 brands - plus the rich man's passtime SuperTrofeo.
For the "normal" car brands - audi in dtm, vw and skoda rally, and seat does supercopa etc.
So, which brand would benefit from joining f1? Surely not Porsche or Audi. lambo and Bentley are doing fine and would never do enough to pay back the investment. Seat? Hell no - it's the value sporty brand, not posh sporty.
So, that leaves VW itself. Target market of quality / safety / upmarket family man. What benefit will they get? Bugger all - When Renault kicked arse, they sold a few special edition Clios, and still failed to sell any upmarket exec cars / anything aporty in high numbers.
Bmw spent a lot of money, and lost face. So did toyota. And honda. Why would anyne sane at VW want to out their hat in the ring when their sales are very high, and the upside is so low?
I could ask around the office, almost 100 people, to name a F1 driver. I bet every single person could do so.The place to develop relevent tech is WEC, they're already there twice.
The place to sell the sporty brands is by having the actual cars racing - blancpain, all the local / semi international GT series - they're there with 4 brands - plus the rich man's passtime SuperTrofeo.
For the "normal" car brands - audi in dtm, vw and skoda rally, and seat does supercopa etc.
So, which brand would benefit from joining f1? Surely not Porsche or Audi. lambo and Bentley are doing fine and would never do enough to pay back the investment. Seat? Hell no - it's the value sporty brand, not posh sporty.
So, that leaves VW itself. Target market of quality / safety / upmarket family man. What benefit will they get? Bugger all - When Renault kicked arse, they sold a few special edition Clios, and still failed to sell any upmarket exec cars / anything aporty in high numbers.
Bmw spent a lot of money, and lost face. So did toyota. And honda. Why would anyne sane at VW want to out their hat in the ring when their sales are very high, and the upside is so low?
I bet I’d struggle to get anyone to name a single WEC, DTM or BTCC driver – though might get Webber and possibly Plato. Blancpain? I doubt anyone would have a clue what I was talking about.
Renault did it wrong with Red Bull and got little recognition. They are looking to address that. Honda had great exposure in the past. From memory BMW pulled out more due to the global economic crisis rather the ability of their car. IIRC 2007? 2008? Kubica was in a championship challenging BMW but they pulled the plug early in the season.
Regardless of where best to develop the tech F1 still gets the most exposure.
Agent Orange said:
Some Gump said:
I don't buy it. I can see huge potential pitfaalls, and virtually nil upside.
The place to develop relevent tech is WEC, they're already there twice.
The place to sell the sporty brands is by having the actual cars racing - blancpain, all the local / semi international GT series - they're there with 4 brands - plus the rich man's passtime SuperTrofeo.
For the "normal" car brands - audi in dtm, vw and skoda rally, and seat does supercopa etc.
So, which brand would benefit from joining f1? Surely not Porsche or Audi. lambo and Bentley are doing fine and would never do enough to pay back the investment. Seat? Hell no - it's the value sporty brand, not posh sporty.
So, that leaves VW itself. Target market of quality / safety / upmarket family man. What benefit will they get? Bugger all - When Renault kicked arse, they sold a few special edition Clios, and still failed to sell any upmarket exec cars / anything aporty in high numbers.
Bmw spent a lot of money, and lost face. So did toyota. And honda. Why would anyne sane at VW want to out their hat in the ring when their sales are very high, and the upside is so low?
I could ask around the office, almost 100 people, to name a F1 driver. I bet every single person could do so.The place to develop relevent tech is WEC, they're already there twice.
The place to sell the sporty brands is by having the actual cars racing - blancpain, all the local / semi international GT series - they're there with 4 brands - plus the rich man's passtime SuperTrofeo.
For the "normal" car brands - audi in dtm, vw and skoda rally, and seat does supercopa etc.
So, which brand would benefit from joining f1? Surely not Porsche or Audi. lambo and Bentley are doing fine and would never do enough to pay back the investment. Seat? Hell no - it's the value sporty brand, not posh sporty.
So, that leaves VW itself. Target market of quality / safety / upmarket family man. What benefit will they get? Bugger all - When Renault kicked arse, they sold a few special edition Clios, and still failed to sell any upmarket exec cars / anything aporty in high numbers.
Bmw spent a lot of money, and lost face. So did toyota. And honda. Why would anyne sane at VW want to out their hat in the ring when their sales are very high, and the upside is so low?
I bet I’d struggle to get anyone to name a single WEC, DTM or BTCC driver – though might get Webber and possibly Plato. Blancpain? I doubt anyone would have a clue what I was talking about.
Renault did it wrong with Red Bull and got little recognition. They are looking to address that. Honda had great exposure in the past. From memory BMW pulled out more due to the global economic crisis rather the ability of their car. IIRC 2007? 2008? Kubica was in a championship challenging BMW but they pulled the plug early in the season.
Regardless of where best to develop the tech F1 still gets the most exposure.
revrange said:
Other stuff...
The pit lane could be opened up for normal fans as well say early evening for a couple of hours...
Ah the good old days, it made Silverstone worth getting to at 6AM because mere mortals could access the pit lane and watch the teams going through pistop practice.The pit lane could be opened up for normal fans as well say early evening for a couple of hours...
suffolk009 said:
I must be alone in wondering why any manufacturer would want to be in F1. Great if you're winning like Merc. Not so good for Honda, BMW, Toyota, Ford, Jaguar, even Peugot, Porsche and Lamborghini have had engines in the past.
I think you'll find it was very good for Ford 
Ford are still (just) the second most successful engine maker in F1 history behind Ferrari.
Crafty_ said:
The question is why would they. Whats the value proposition?
Fire99 said:
If I were Audi I wouldn't bother. I don't see the benefit for Audi if I'm honest.
Agreed!I heard something on the BBC where someone was saying Toyota are making $1800 per car where as VW make $1000 per car and Skoda make $800 per car.
So it could seem VAG has to make and sell 2 cars for every car Toyota makes to make the same profit.
How is having Audi in F1 going to improve the profitability of each car the VAG group makes?
hairyben said:
I've often wondered the real cost benefit of F1 to a manufacturer and I think the solution is not to think about it as a petrolhead; it's got NOTHING to do with us. It's about the brands cachet or x-factor, it's so every car dealer in the country can have lifesize cardboard cutouts in the showroom and the salesman smiling "yes sir, our brand builds winning formula 1 cars" while he flogs you some dreary souless hatchback with a 5star NCAP for your insipid family. That and that the whole board can have a massive jolly at races and invite corporate clients etc too.
The deal for the manufacturers is the same as it is for the sponsors, brand exposure. The most basic calculation being advertising equivalent value - how much would you have to pay to get that much air time. Formula Money monitor F1 and publish a breakdown of exposure - they have an example report on their website from Australia 2011 (pdf)I can't find equivalent data for WEC but Andrew Benson (BBC) claims VW gained about £30 million in advertising value for it's 2014 season, vs £1.8 billion for Mercedes in their F1 season. And because sponsorship is easier to obtain Mercedes themselves spent less than VW.
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