The Official 2015 Monaco Grand Prix thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
ewenm said:
There's an article on the BBC site saying Grosjean braked 5m later than previously, presumably to defend his place. Error of judgement from Verstappen but no more than that IMO.
I can't find that but it seems Verstappen is convinced he was brake tested according to his twitter feed which was reported elsewhere.andyps said:
ewenm said:
There's an article on the BBC site saying Grosjean braked 5m later than previously, presumably to defend his place. Error of judgement from Verstappen but no more than that IMO.
I can't find that but it seems Verstappen is convinced he was brake tested according to his twitter feed which was reported elsewhere.Andrew Benson said:
...
Thirty seconds or so later, the otherwise impressive Verstappen misjudged his positioning behind Romain Grosjean's Lotus, even though the Frenchman braked five metres later than on the previous lap, smashed into the back of the black car and speared straight on into the barrier.
...
Thirty seconds or so later, the otherwise impressive Verstappen misjudged his positioning behind Romain Grosjean's Lotus, even though the Frenchman braked five metres later than on the previous lap, smashed into the back of the black car and speared straight on into the barrier.
...
ewenm said:
RYH64E said:
eps said:
I think the result was classic Lewis. He overthinks / thinks was quicker than most other drivers and most of the time this helps him out, but at Spa (I forget which year) and in a few other scenarios it has worked against him, such as this.
There was no thinking needed, it's Monaco, overtaking is virtually impossible, giving up track position when you're leading the race with your team mate behind and just 10 or 15 laps to go (partly behind the safety car) is lunacy. If Lewis was as quick thinking as you say he would have known that and he should have known that, as should the team.For me it was over-thinking from the team - they were covering off a very unlikely scenario when they should have just trusted their drivers to be able to hold off Vettel anyway.
Edit: And that's a consequence of relying so heavily on data during a "normal" race where the data is accurate. When you get unreliable data you need to add extra error margins to decisions - it appears that the team didn't do that. The commentators said the GPS data is unreliable at Monaco due to the nature of the circuit.
Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 27th May 11:21
RYH64E said:
It's Monaco, there's no point in risking an unnecessary pit stop where you could have problem with a wheel nut or jack etc, if you're in the lead with 10 laps to go then, barring mechanical breakdown or driver error, the race is won. Having Rosberg behind made it even more certain, there was no way Rosberg would try a risky overtake, and risky overtakes are all there are at Monaco.
Maybe they'd been spoofed by Verstappen's overtaking on the fresh tyres, not realising he was mainly sneaking through on the blue flags.RYH64E said:
It's Monaco, there's no point in risking an unnecessary pit stop where you could have problem with a wheel nut or jack etc, if you're in the lead with 10 laps to go then, barring mechanical breakdown or driver error, the race is won. Having Rosberg behind made it even more certain, there was no way Rosberg would try a risky overtake, and risky overtakes are all there are at Monaco.
to a point, you're bang on.the issue as I see it is this, Lewis knew his (front) tyres were past their best, and was concerned that once they had cooled down behind the SC, he may have struggled to get them back working again.
Now, he also believed (and I really don't know where he got this from) that Vettel/Rosberg were/had stopped for tyres.
so, he was reacting to that, (remember they were far enough behind him for him to have no idea where and what they were doing).
At this point, the team should have just put him straight and said nobody has pitted, instead they went off on a protracted discussion about the time to stop etc.
Basically, the pit wall screwed it up, way too much talking and not enough clear thinking.
Ross would simply not have allowed this to happen, period, it's clear Lewis's race engineer was almost as much in the dark as Lewis - how does that happen?
Yep - I think it's also been mentioned that Lewis was using/looking at the screens around the circuit and trying to ascertain more information from those as well..!
The pitwall should have told him to stay out, but I think he planted the seed in their mind and they went to work on it...
The pitwall should have told him to stay out, but I think he planted the seed in their mind and they went to work on it...
Poor Merc have allowed themselves to be placed under a magnifying glass by some media, probs adding to their nervousness/decision by committee approach. Lewis seems to have been concerned that others were pitting, but actually asked the team for fresh tyres, which they thought they could deliver with no penalty (they were wrong). If LH had just asked if the others were pitting none of them would have headed down this blind alley. They were at sixes and sevens which is not good at this level, but you can see how it happenned.
ewenm said:
andyps said:
ewenm said:
There's an article on the BBC site saying Grosjean braked 5m later than previously, presumably to defend his place. Error of judgement from Verstappen but no more than that IMO.
I can't find that but it seems Verstappen is convinced he was brake tested according to his twitter feed which was reported elsewhere.Andrew Benson said:
...
Thirty seconds or so later, the otherwise impressive Verstappen misjudged his positioning behind Romain Grosjean's Lotus, even though the Frenchman braked five metres later than on the previous lap, smashed into the back of the black car and speared straight on into the barrier.
...
Thirty seconds or so later, the otherwise impressive Verstappen misjudged his positioning behind Romain Grosjean's Lotus, even though the Frenchman braked five metres later than on the previous lap, smashed into the back of the black car and speared straight on into the barrier.
...
I was going to ask where Benson got that info, but after a quick google, Lotus data was accepted by the FIA http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/12960325/lotus...
Alan Permane on Twitter said:
@AlanPermane
.@RGrosjean didn’t brake test @Max33Verstappen, he braked 5m later than previous lap. Data accepted by FIA so the penalty was for Max not RG
.@RGrosjean didn’t brake test @Max33Verstappen, he braked 5m later than previous lap. Data accepted by FIA so the penalty was for Max not RG
ajprice said:
I was going to ask where Benson got that info, but after a quick google, Lotus data was accepted by the FIA http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/12960325/lotus...
is it just me or does that sound like bullsAlan Permane on Twitter said:
@AlanPermane
.@RGrosjean didn’t brake test @Max33Verstappen, he braked 5m later than previous lap. Data accepted by FIA so the penalty was for Max not RG
.@RGrosjean didn’t brake test @Max33Verstappen, he braked 5m later than previous lap. Data accepted by FIA so the penalty was for Max not RG
t?as a race driver, to be 5M different in your braking point would imply something had changed, this is a later lap so one assumes the tyres were worse not better, so why would he leave it another 5M?
it's either that or Grosjean is not particularly accurate/consistent (seems unlikely for an F1 driver with his experience), or more likely, the data logging is not that positionally accurate (intentionally?)
/tin foil hat firmly on!
Maybe he'd braked 5m earlier than usual on the previous lap, either as a deliberate brake test/block to MV, or because he had been on a defensive tight line that necessitated it, and this particular lap he was back to his normal braking point as he thought MV was a bit further behind on the straight so he didn't need to be so defensive this time around?
Scuffers said:
is it just me or does that sound like bullst?
as a race driver, to be 5M different in your braking point would imply something had changed, this is a later lap so one assumes the tyres were worse not better, so why would he leave it another 5M?
it's either that or Grosjean is not particularly accurate/consistent (seems unlikely for an F1 driver with his experience), or more likely, the data logging is not that positionally accurate (intentionally?)
/tin foil hat firmly on!
They will know the error in the data logging and take it into account (note the report is 5m not 5.27m - this implies a level of accuracy - so best case: he braked between 4.5 and 5.5m later - worst case: he braked between 2.5 and 7.5m later)t?as a race driver, to be 5M different in your braking point would imply something had changed, this is a later lap so one assumes the tyres were worse not better, so why would he leave it another 5M?
it's either that or Grosjean is not particularly accurate/consistent (seems unlikely for an F1 driver with his experience), or more likely, the data logging is not that positionally accurate (intentionally?)
/tin foil hat firmly on!
The thing that had changed was that Vestappen was attempting a pass/was closer than the previous lap.
Tyre degradation is not high at Monaco so the difference between consecutive laps at that stage of the race would be minimal.
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