Refuelling back for 2017

[suffolk009]

Just seen a BBC newsflash, apparently refuelling will be back from 2017.

Stupid idea, if you ask me.

[Munter]

BBc say it as well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/32751118

Edit: thought you said sky...bloody eyes...anyway there's the link.

[Dr Z]

Oh my days! Free tyre choices and return of the refuelling! The end, I tell thee! 'Tis the end!

[MitchT]

I thought they stopped it because race outcomes were being determined too much by strategy rather than wheel-to-wheel racing?

[andyps]

Not what I want to see for improving F1 - wow, a car stationary filling up with fuel. The real pinnacle of the sport that! Whilst the speed it can be done in is amazing you don't see many people sat at filling stations watching cars refuelling so why should it enhance F1.

The only way it might help is if it really changes strategy options, filling at a rate that means there may be a benefit to running the race without a stop rather than with one. Same principle should apply to tyres - have a compound which is capable of doing the full race if a team choose it rather than the current forced current situation of both compounds having to be used in the race. And reduce the number of people working on the car at any time to make the stops take longer and become more strategic if they have to happen.

[realjv]

MitchT said:

I thought they stopped it because race outcomes were being determined too much by strategy rather than wheel-to-wheel racing?

Don't go and apply logical thought to it! This is F1, there are no new ideas just changes.

I assume the reintroduction of refuelling is a consequence of the desire to increase power, noise and speed rather than a change for its own reason.

[marshalla]

MitchT said:

I thought they stopped it because race outcomes were being determined too much by strategy rather than wheel-to-wheel racing?

The way to stop that is to reduce the amount of information being passed between car, team and driver. Let the drivers drive rather doing what the computer says they should do. Eliminate radios and restrict them to pit boards and pit stop conversations only.

[Cos18]

Gonna submit my CV for an F1 team refueller. Previous experience of filling both petrol AND diesel cars, never getting the two mixed up. Also have experience of high speed fuelling systems - pressing the 'HGV' only button on the diesel pump to see what would happen.

[jp7152]

Seems very strange as they are saying they are going to keep the fuel flow restrictions but bring back refueling.

It would make more sense if the fuel flow restriction was changed surely?

[2fast748]

F1 is run by people with Alzheimers - it's the only explanation for trying the same things over and over. Refuelling was binned (twice!) for safety and cost reasons. It also lead to every post race press conference ever being full of drivers saying "I was waiting for the pit stop to pass him". As has been stated already: watching a car fill up with fuel is not exciting.

The only thing that really needs to change in F1 is the way the money is distributed.

[Shaoxter]

Well I think the more exciting news is the freedom of tyre choice. Should see a real mix of strategies.

[HarryFlatters]

Shaoxter said:

Well I think the more exciting news is the freedom of tyre choice. Should see a real mix of strategies.

Will it thought? Won't all the cars end up on the tyres that the computer sim says is the fastest?

[suffolk009]

HarryFlatters said:

Shaoxter said:

Well I think the more exciting news is the freedom of tyre choice. Should see a real mix of strategies.

Will it thought? Won't all the cars end up on the tyres that the computer sim says is the fastest?

Exactly so. Vast computers will predetermine the correct choice of tyre for each circuit.

As one of the team bosses said recently in a post race interview "You know we do have computers to work out the fastest race strategy".

[budgie smuggler]

2fast748 said:

F1 is run by people with Alzheimers - it's the only explanation for trying the same things over and over. Refuelling was binned (twice!) for safety and cost reasons. It also lead to every post race press conference ever being full of drivers saying "I was waiting for the pit stop to pass him". As has been stated already: watching a car fill up with fuel is not exciting.

The only thing that really needs to change in F1 is the way the money is distributed.

...And whatever it is about their aero setups that makes it impossible to ride within 2 seconds of the car in front without shredding your tyres. If that means a limit to the number of winglets, or a weird rear wing setup with a hole in the middle, so be it.

[entropy]

andyps said:

Not what I want to see for improving F1 - wow, a car stationary filling up with fuel. The real pinnacle of the sport that! Whilst the speed it can be done in is amazing you don't see many people sat at filling stations watching cars refuelling so why should it enhance F1.

The only way it might help is if it really changes strategy options, filling at a rate that means there may be a benefit to running the race without a stop rather than with one. Same principle should apply to tyres - have a compound which is capable of doing the full race if a team choose it rather than the current forced current situation of both compounds having to be used in the race. And reduce the number of people working on the car at any time to make the stops take longer and become more strategic if they have to happen.

In that instance there wouldn't be strategy variation. Everyone would one stop because of low tyre deg and pit delta which is what happened in the previous era.

[HarryFlatters]

budgie smuggler said:

...And whatever it is about their aero setups that makes it impossible to ride within 2 seconds of the car in front

This.

This is what they need to address. It can't be beyond the capabilities of the teams to suggest how this could be achieved.

Brundle said it in commentary in Spain, that his recollection of ground effect cars is that they're much less affected by turbulent air, so getting right underneath the gearbox of the car in front was possible. I took this to mean that the amount of aero generated from on top of the car has to be reduced, while mechanical grip and ground effect needs to be increased.

200bhp more would be nice too

[Shaoxter]

suffolk009 said:

HarryFlatters said:

Shaoxter said:

Well I think the more exciting news is the freedom of tyre choice. Should see a real mix of strategies.

Will it thought? Won't all the cars end up on the tyres that the computer sim says is the fastest?

Exactly so. Vast computers will predetermine the correct choice of tyre for each circuit.

As one of the team bosses said recently in a post race interview "You know we do have computers to work out the fastest race strategy".

Yeah but you do hear a lot of times "3 stops is what the computer says is the optimum strategy but we're going for 2 stops because of track position" etc.

What if one of the Manors decides to do a banzai strategy by going for the super softs at the start of the race when everyone else is using the mediums/hards to get ahead and get some TV air time?

[Mr_Thyroid]

suffolk009 said:

HarryFlatters said:

Shaoxter said:

Well I think the more exciting news is the freedom of tyre choice. Should see a real mix of strategies.

Will it thought? Won't all the cars end up on the tyres that the computer sim says is the fastest?

Exactly so. Vast computers will predetermine the correct choice of tyre for each circuit.

As one of the team bosses said recently in a post race interview "You know we do have computers to work out the fastest race strategy".

But crucially they do not use the same computer - nor do they have the same car, or the same drivers. Example: the last race where Ferrari thought their strategy was quicker - or the best way to spoil the Mercedes race; ultimately didn't work of course but a team who knows their car is slower will often try something different - this has been happening for years in F1 and free choice of tyres will allow it to happen more. This rule change is good.

Unfortunately the last refuelling period in F1 saw some pretty turgid "racing". I think the free tyre rule should be given at least a couple of years before another change is introduced.

[HarryFlatters]

Mr_Thyroid said:

Unfortunately the last refuelling period in F1 saw some pretty turgid "racing".

Was DRS a thing back then? I can't quite remember the timeline. My gut says that it wasn't...

If they retain DRS, we won't end up with the "Trulli trains" that used to be a feature of the first stint of every race.

[ralphrj]

HarryFlatters said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

Unfortunately the last refuelling period in F1 saw some pretty turgid "racing".

Was DRS a thing back then? I can't quite remember the timeline. My gut says that it wasn't...

If they retain DRS, we won't end up with the "Trulli trains" that used to be a feature of the first stint of every race.

No, there was no overlap between refuelling and DRS.

2009 was the last season with refuelling. DRS was introduced in 2011.