The Official 2015 Canadian Grand Prix thread **SPOILERS**

[Scuffers]

Vaud said:

And many back markers who had made it through pre-qualifying being lapped many, many times.
And the DNFs due to reliability.
etc

Oh, and deaths. It was not a glorious sport even in the mythical golden eras. We don't want to see our heroes die on TV as so often happened in the "golden eras"

what was wrong with 36 car grids?

I would love to see 3 car teams now, that would at least get us to 30 cars...

A lot of the issues we have now are caused by a lack of cars on the grid, then combine that with cars that are 99% engineering and 1% driven, then you wonder why is a procession.

in the old days, a top driver could drag a not so great car up the grid, these days that's just about impossible, ask Alonso.

Whoever said about radio traffic has a point, maybe we should ban all use of telemetry except on safety related stuff? (ie, team can look but cannot communicate what they are seeing unless it's an impending safety issue.)

then chop more of the wings off the cars, (single elements would be good), and give them decent tyres, then let them race.

[London424]

Vaud said:

swisstoni said:

RichB said:

People forget that there were often some boring processions in the old days as well.

Quite.

And many back markers who had made it through pre-qualifying being lapped many, many times.
And the DNFs due to reliability.
etc

Oh, and deaths. It was not a glorious sport even in the mythical golden eras. We don't want to see our heroes die on TV as so often happened in the "golden eras"

The other things people forget is that we, as a society, are very different. We are much more about instant gratification. We have access to information at our fingertips that we didn't have even 10 years ago.

People talk about being distracted by surfing on the internet on their phones/ipads etc. 10 years ago you couldn't/didn't do that. Facebook barely existed, Twitter didn't exist, the iPhone was still 2 years away from existence. I'd even guess that most people were getting on the internet via dial-up still!

[Scuffers]

London424 said:

The other things people forget is that we, as a society, are very different. We are much more about instant gratification. We have access to information at our fingertips that we didn't have even 10 years ago.

People talk about being distracted by surfing on the internet on their phones/ipads etc. 10 years ago you couldn't/didn't do that. Facebook barely existed, Twitter didn't exist, the iPhone was still 2 years away from existence. I'd even guess that most people were getting on the internet via dial-up still!

10 years ago we had broadband, (introduced in 1998).

[RichB]

Vaud said:

swisstoni said:

RichB said:

People forget that there were often some boring processions in the old days as well.

Quite.

And many back markers who had made it through pre-qualifying being lapped many, many times. And the DNFs due to reliability. etc

Oh, and deaths. It was not a glorious sport even in the mythical golden eras. We don't want to see our heroes die on TV as so often happened in the "golden eras"

Indeed, as someone who started in the early/mid 60s and with a brother who is 4 years older I was familiar with grand prix racing from an early age and can recollect the national concern Stirling Moss's crash at Goodwood caused in '62.

I remember my brother and I used to cross off the drivers each season as they died, usually 2 or 3 each season. To younger people on this thread that may seem unbelievable but it's true. We would read reports of the races, compare notes and then scratch them from our list of current GP drivers. We became inured to deaths in motor racing - and I assure you no one want that.

[JonRB]

Scuffers said:

London424 said:

The other things people forget is that we, as a society, are very different. We are much more about instant gratification. We have access to information at our fingertips that we didn't have even 10 years ago.

People talk about being distracted by surfing on the internet on their phones/ipads etc. 10 years ago you couldn't/didn't do that. Facebook barely existed, Twitter didn't exist, the iPhone was still 2 years away from existence. I'd even guess that most people were getting on the internet via dial-up still!

10 years ago we had broadband, (introduced in 1998).

That doesn't negate his argument though. Even 10 years ago we didn't have the wealth of information we have now. Although perhaps he should have said 15 years rather than 10 to make his point better. But no matter.

[JonRB]

RichB said:

I remember my brother and I used to cross off the drivers each season as they died, usually 2 or 3 each season. To younger people on this thread that may seem unbelievable but it's true. We would read reports of the races, compare notes and then scratch them from our list of current GP drivers. We became inured to deaths in motor racing - and I assure you no one want that.

When Jackie Stewart started his crusade for safety in F1, many people (including some of the other drivers) called him wet, cowardly and questioned his manliness. That's how ingrained the idea of danger and death was in motor racing at the time.

[London424]

Scuffers said:

London424 said:

The other things people forget is that we, as a society, are very different. We are much more about instant gratification. We have access to information at our fingertips that we didn't have even 10 years ago.

People talk about being distracted by surfing on the internet on their phones/ipads etc. 10 years ago you couldn't/didn't do that. Facebook barely existed, Twitter didn't exist, the iPhone was still 2 years away from existence. I'd even guess that most people were getting on the internet via dial-up still!

10 years ago we had broadband, (introduced in 1998).

I know we had broadband, but how widely were people connected to it?

ETA: Just found stat that says by 2004 over half of all households were connected to the internet, with just over a third being broadband.

So being generous around 20% of households were broadband, the rest still dial-up.

And lets be honest, broadband speeds in those days were probably still measured in k/b

My point was mainly that when we start talking about 10+ years ago it was a very different landscape when we talk about something keeping your attention and providing alternatives and multitasking.

[JonRB]

London424 said:

My point was mainly that when we start talking about 10+ years ago it was a very different landscape when we talk about something keeping your attention and providing alternatives and multitasking.

Indeed. Certainly there wasn't the proliferation of hand-held internet-connected devices that we have now. 10 years ago I would probably have been watching F1 with my laptop connected to the internet and posting here on PH during a race but the concept would have been considered far more geeky than it is now.

Go back to 15 or 20 years ago and your argument becomes even more relevant.

Point is that people are far more multi-tasking, multi-connected, parallelised now than they were in the past.

[LordGrover]

JonRB said:

Indeed. Certainly there wasn't the proliferation of hand-held internet-connected devices that we have now. 10 years ago I would probably have been watching F1 with my laptop connected to the internet and posting here on PH during a race but the concept would have been considered far more geeky than it is now.

Go back to 15 or 20 years ago and your argument becomes even more relevant.

Point is that people are far more multi-tasking, multi-connected, parallelised now than they were in the past.

You just made that up, didn't you? Parallelised?

[Scuffers]

JonRB said:

When Jackie Stewart started his crusade for safety in F1, many people (including some of the other drivers) called him wet, cowardly and questioned his manliness. That's how ingrained the idea of danger and death was in motor racing at the time.

completely bogus analogy

that was a totally different era, cars were as dangerous as hell as were ccts, it's simply nothing like that now.

Yes, you can argue complacency, and it is important not to be blase about it, but using this as an excuse for turning the ccts into car-parks with zero challenge is not the answer.

[anonymous-user]

Scuffers said:

JonRB said:

When Jackie Stewart started his crusade for safety in F1, many people (including some of the other drivers) called him wet, cowardly and questioned his manliness. That's how ingrained the idea of danger and death was in motor racing at the time.

completely bogus analogy

that was a totally different era, cars were as dangerous as hell as were ccts, it's simply nothing like that now.

Yes, you can argue complacency, and it is important not to be blase about it, but using this as an excuse for turning the ccts into car-parks with zero challenge is not the answer.

Correct, a totally irrelevant analogy. Unless it's being suggested that you can't make the cars faster, or allow them to be driven at their limits, without bringing carnage, which is patently absurd.

[Munter]

LordGrover said:

JonRB said:

Indeed. Certainly there wasn't the proliferation of hand-held internet-connected devices that we have now. 10 years ago I would probably have been watching F1 with my laptop connected to the internet and posting here on PH during a race but the concept would have been considered far more geeky than it is now.

Go back to 15 or 20 years ago and your argument becomes even more relevant.

Point is that people are far more multi-tasking, multi-connected, parallelised now than they were in the past.

You just made that up, didn't you? Parallelised?

I think the phrase he was searching for was "Multi-Screen Behaviour".
https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/research-studies/t...

[swisstoni]

I doubt the average person of today could endure one 1970s Sunday without fainting with the tedium

[JonRB]

REALIST123 said:

Scuffers said:

completely bogus analogy

that was a totally different era, cars were as dangerous as hell as were ccts, it's simply nothing like that now.

Yes, you can argue complacency, and it is important not to be blase about it, but using this as an excuse for turning the ccts into car-parks with zero challenge is not the answer.

Correct, a totally irrelevant analogy. Unless it's being suggested that you can't make the cars faster, or allow them to be driven at their limits, without bringing carnage, which is patently absurd.

Ummm... eh? What analogy?

RichB said that in the 60's death was commonplace and the danger was considered normal. And I agreed that it was, and in fact was considered to be so normal that when someone (ie. Jackie Stewart) tried to do something about it and tried to make it less dangerous, some people called him a namby-pamby and told him to man up.

That was it. There was no analogy. I have no idea what you two are on about.

[JonRB]

LordGrover said:

You just made that up, didn't you? Parallelised?

Yup, pretty much.

Edit: But I was kind of getting at "Multi-Screen Behaviour" as Munter correctly guessed. I knew what I was trying to say; just didn't have the correct word for it so made one up.

[mollytherocker]

I will be watching the 24 heures de mans this weekend.

Anybody with me?

[JonRB]

mollytherocker said:

I will be watching the 24 heures de mans this weekend.

Anybody with me?

I'll have it on live for the whole 24 hours as I have done for the past couple of years, and kip on the sofa in front of the telly to the sound of the cars, waking from time to time to cock a bleary eye at the screen before falling asleep again.

[Derek Smith]

JonRB said:

When Jackie Stewart started his crusade for safety in F1, many people (including some of the other drivers) called him wet, cowardly and questioned his manliness. That's how ingrained the idea of danger and death was in motor racing at the time.

He was slated in Motor Sport. It was bewildering. It was almost as if they thought deaths were part of the circus.

[Vaud]

And the terrible irony is that more safety personnel have been killed in F1 since 1994 than drivers.

[Mr_Thyroid]

Back to the actual race in question......

Should Hulkenberg have crashed in Vettel? I think he had every right to - Vettel had put his car into a very dangerous position that relied on Hulk's cooperation in order for the pass to work. By spinning instead of sticking in there and probably crashing did he make himself look weak - an asset for a small team who will bring the car home instead of a top runner who will do the absolute maximum to get the big bucks?