Does Monaco have a place in the f1 calendar?

Does Monaco have a place in the f1 calendar?

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Nigel_O

Original Poster:

2,858 posts

218 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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After Merc's cockup with Lewis on Sunday and his understandable failure to overtake Seb's Ferrari, it occurred to me that Monaco isn't really a race, just a very expensive parade

Let's put it another way - if Monaco WASN'T already on the calendar and submitted a proposal to Bernie to host one, it would surely fall very flat - no straights, almost zero overtaking, minor mistakes often punished by DNFs, etc etc

Surely a fundamental pre-requisite for ANY race is the physical ability to overtake. It seems the only way to pass someone at Monaco is to wait for them to make a sizeable mistake, give them a bit of a nudge (Ricciardo on Sunday, Bianchi last year), or try to do it in the pits.

Any circuit where a slow car can physically prevent a faster car from passing is surely not what F1 needs. Mansell behind Senna, Coulthard behind the Arrows of Bernoldi on 2001

I don't accept the "tradition" angle, as several traditional circuits have been dropped over the years (Magny Cours, Nurburgring, Jerez, etc) - whilst some of these will have been dropped for good reasons (safety, facilities, access etc), I can't believe that Monaco would score particularly well on most requirements of a modern F1 circuit.

However, I rather suspect that the spectacle of racing comes a very poor and distant second to the harsh commercial realities (ie how much they are prepared to pay to host)

Discuss....

Eric Mc

121,768 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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It will always be there - unless the Monaco royal family decide otherwise. Europe could end up losing every single GP it has - except for Monaco.

marshalla

15,902 posts

200 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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IMHO it still deserves to be there, there's nowhere quite like it - and maybe that's why it seems out of place. The cars (and possibly quite a lot of the drivers) are wrong for the circuit these days - but there are plenty of other threads about what's wrong with the technical regulations.

LDM

372 posts

126 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Fair points but there are plenty of tracks which fulfil the requirements for straights etc. where the "racing" is boring and superficial, also places where the drs zones mean an overtake is guaranteed rather than won and there is little pressure to get things right or punishment for making a mistake.

I wish there could be more and better racing at Monaco but then I think that's the case with most circuits, at least Monaco seems able to shake it up and not always give the predicted result.

SeeFive

8,280 posts

232 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Monaco has its pros and cons.

For the glamourazzi, it is a place to gather and be seen. Nothing to do with F1 with the exception that F1 has always attracted the glamour. For those that drive in the lower formulae, due to its reputation, they are bing watched by the big boys too. If you won the Monaco or Pau F3 race, people noticed.

For those that sit and watch the race on TV, it can be quite boring. For those that actually go there to participate in the weekend, it is unrivalled. Away from the glamour, nowhere can you get so close to a car making progress in a race. Nowhere (if up that is your persuasion, and for many it is) in f1 will you get to see or rub shoulders with (depending on your access) with so many of the rich and famous of this planet. Add to that, which F1 driver does not want to win Monaco? It has a certain something.

Would it make it on the calendar as a new entry? No. Why? The pits and paddock as the number one reason never mind the circuit issues.

Personally, I couldn't give a toss either way. There are plenty of other races to enjoy from a racing perspective while allowing this multi-faceted promotional exercise to take place. And sometimes it isn't a bad GP either.

budgie smuggler

5,359 posts

158 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Nigel_O said:
Any circuit where a slow car can physically prevent a faster car from passing is surely not what F1 needs. Mansell behind Senna, Coulthard behind the Arrows of Bernoldi on 2001
I know what you're saying but that Mansell/Senna battle is still up there in my top 10 memorable F1 moments.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrsgq0_best-f1-ba...

Just something superb about watching F1 cars on this inappropriate track.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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No I think it is awful and should be binned.

thegreenhell

15,108 posts

218 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Monaco is in some ways like Ferrari - F1 could survive without either but it would lose something special and irreplaceable, something intangible that sets it apart from everything else.

And if you want to judge the 'spectacle' just on the 'racing' aspect then there are plenty of other circuits that should also get the chop for the dull racing they produce. Would you prefer it if they only visited dull, flat Tilkedomes with massive half-empty grandstands, and mile-wide tarmac with endless run-off so that the poor diddums drivers don't have to worry about being too precise with their driving as there are no consequences if they go off line?

To me there is far more to the spectacle of racing than just overtaking. After The Monaco GP on Sunday I also sat through the Indy 500. Despite frequent overtakes, crashes and a grandstand finish, Indy seemed somewhat dull, artificial and underwhelming after Monaco.

BoRED S2upid

19,641 posts

239 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Yes it has it's place you have to have a big pair to be doing 160mph that close to barriers some of the inboard stuff is incredible. F1 is not about overtaking how many other tracks is it difficult to overtake on? Even with DRS. You want to see overtaking watch a slower formula.

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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It is an anachronism. It is the only GP that I have planned to miss this season. I find it unexciting and predictable, at least in the dry. In the wet, it is something of a lottery unlike, for instance, Canada when it rains where quality often shows through.

But if we bin it, it will be replaced with another Tilke circuit and we've got too many of them already.

Is it worth, for instance, losing a German GP or one in France? No. Is it included because those with the power to influence such decisions feel self-important and view royalty as a reflection on their own worth?

From what Ecclestone said recently when commenting on the HMRC attempt at getting £1bn from hi, it would appear that he is going to remain in Switzerland, so perhaps he might not feel the need to retain it, given the reported low cost to the principality.

There were some fascinating races there in the past, certainly enough to excite, but the cars have left that sort of thing behind.

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Jasandjules said:
No I think it is awful and should be binned.
Yep. Could almost say the same for Spain to be honest and I'm not a huge fan of Singapore if it wasn't for the night race aspect of it.

But yeah.. been a fan of F1 since a kid but never liked Monaco at all, it nearly always produces dull predictable races.... and for me it really isn't proper racing if the only way to over take somebody is to shove them out of your way.

Edited by VolvoT5 on Tuesday 26th May 17:13

uk_vette

3,336 posts

203 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Jasandjules said:
No I think it is awful and should be binned.
Yep,

Binned,

Time is over for Monaco.

I am sure there are other more exciting tracks, and that is what the whole F1 is planning to be about.
More excitement.

vette

Eric Mc

121,768 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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I love Monaco - just for the spactacularness of the place. The opening shots of the film Grand Prix hooked me into the place as an 8 year old back in 1967 and I still love the fact that the circuit is still largely recognisable from that era. Long may it continue.

Roo

11,503 posts

206 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Nigel_O said:
However, I rather suspect that the spectacle of racing comes a very poor and distant second to the harsh commercial realities (ie how much they are prepared to pay to host)
Except, of course, Monaco doesn't pay a hosting fee.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
Yes it has it's place you have to have a big pair to be doing 160mph that close to barriers some of the inboard stuff is incredible. F1 is not about overtaking how many other tracks is it difficult to overtake on? Even with DRS. You want to see overtaking watch a slower formula.
I agree it is fantastic watching the cars zip through the chicanes and close to the barriers. BUT that is not enough to me for F1. Hell, there is a Champions Wall at another circuit that isn't hard to overtake at......

Oh, and I would also see several other circuits binned with it!

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Jasandjules said:
Oh, and I would also see several other circuits binned with it!
Which ones?

belleair302

6,835 posts

206 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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If you want Renault 3.5 or Euro F3 lose Monaco. More business is done on the yachts and in the hotels for the next few seasons there than at any point in the year. CEO's CFO's and deal makers are all invited, the whole 'scene' is what F1 for these people is about. The little people worry about viewing figures, twitter and Facebook posts, merchandise sales and viewer feedback. Monaco is about power players, corporate ego, the wow factor and often is the only ace many board members visit along with their wives who often make some major decisions when asked by their husbands re sponsorship. Monaco will be on the calendar long after Brazil, Abu Dhabi, Singapore and Australia have gone, Montreal too and every European GP.

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

195 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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We're still away having attended this year, we went for a bit of a jolly if I'm honest and to tick it off the bucket list with a group of family and friends who are all petrolheads and follow F1 (though probably not as much as me).

Without a doubt, it was simply one of the single best events I've ever been to and everyone else agreed too.

We're already planning going back next year, though this time we'll drive down and spend a bit more time down there.

It's a cliché, but the glitz and glamour really does impress and you simply can't get this close to the cars and stars as you do at Monaco. We had standard tickets (tribune t3) and although it's not cool to name drop on pistonheads and admit we did it, but we shouted across to and got a wave from the following;
Alan Prost
Jackie Stewart
Jensen Button
Lewis Hamilton
Nikki Lauda
Jonny Herberrt
Damon Hill (I even got a photo with him at the airport)
All the Sky F1 team
David Coulthard
Those Kardashian girls
Ronaldo and that model
Alonso (who even took my "Lewis is faster than you" comment in good spirits)
Grosjean
Seb Vettel
Flavio Briatorri (we were particularly pleased with this though it might have been the booze)
Christian Horner

If I'm honest, there will have been more but those were the memorable ones for me-which other Grand Prix tracks can you get that close to the stars? Obviously all the too cool for school pistonheads warriors will think that's incredibly naff but it was great fun and getting a wave off a world champion doesn't half lift the spirits smile It was nice that they seemed to genuinely enjoy it too.

Our seats were around 15 feet from where the cars were on track and I just count believe how narrow the circuit was even having visited the town before albeit not when the GP is on.

Sunday evening, all the streets leading down to the harbour have bands in and the place turns into a huge party.

To put it simply, the race weekend is about so much more than the race but let's remember one point-think of all those classic races there has been there? There's loads!

It's also genuinely involving in the build up, you really get the sense of the nerves and anticipation simply by being so close to the action-something I've never felt when at the other GPs I've attended.

Anyway, enough rambling-if you don't get what it's all about then I'd simply suggest you get yourself down there-I think you'll be surprised.

Eric Mc

121,768 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Some great (albeit black and white) TV footage from 1971. Watch where the starter is standing as he drops the flag!!

You wouldn't see Charlie Whiting doing that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtH9VeXSC8Q

DS240

4,636 posts

217 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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It's totally unique on the F1 calendar offering up a huge contrast to pretty much all the other circuits. It looks amazing on TV and although not an overtaking circuit it gives a different challenge to the drivers and teams.

It would be a big loss without it and although there isn't much overtaking it generally throws up some exciting races. There are enough 'normal' circuits on the calendar to have this special one slotted in also.

It's regarded as one of the THE races in a career to get a win at so it must do something right.