What F1 should be, in my view. How can we get this back?
Discussion
paulguitar said:
The current cars sound awful though, both comically quiet and the actual sound itself is SO dull.
In your opinion of course. There has been some close racing [albeit down the field] and YES the rest of the pack have to chase Mercedes but there will always be one team with the edge..I personally enjoy the thought of energy recovery as it's technically challenging and gives extra torque to the engines when deployed [deliberately or not Kimi
] unfortunately it's the ONLY way motorsport, at this level, can justify itself in today’s political climate....IMO.
Mojocvh said:
Just been watching Le Mans, 40% output is regeneration, and boy they can shift!!
Yep and Porsche has .. Wait for it a turbo v4, audi a deisel and the commentators have yet to mention the noise, why? because it doesn't bloody matter! They have limited tyres, limited fuel capacity and yet they just get on with it. I know that it is a totally different disabling, but throughout the whole coverage ( including the practice and qualifying) not body has really mentioned 'the show' it's just enjoying what they do. Maybe if F1 just had some stable rules and the promoter started promoting what he's got, not b
hing about what he would like F1 would stand a chance. At the moment every man and his dog has an opinion about how to make F1 better, the rule makers seem to have given control of the regulations to the teams ( which is frankly idiotic)
F1 seems too scared to put down plans and regulations in fear of upsetting large multinational companies. Yes , some might leave, it happened in WEC , it was in the doldrums for a number of years, but they got the rules right and the manufactures have returned.
Do I really care if RED BULL pulls out because dietrichtz mattesich doesn't like loosing ? No! For all the criticism of Ron Dennis,, maclaren are there what ever the regulations, so too Williams.
Sorry about the mini rant, but watching the sport I have loved for my whole life ( 40+years) pull itself apart is depressing.
I'm mostly with the OP.
For me it's a much better spectacle if the cars do slide about a bit, can follow each other closely enough to be able to try to overtake, have tyres that don't overheat or grain as soon as they do a few quick laps and that sound fantastic!
Maybe why I seem to prefer to go to race meetings with classic cars than current stuff.
True of bikes as well - I watched a programme on TV the other night about the 2-stroke GP era when Wayne Rainey, Kevin Schwantz, Randy Mamola and Co. were racing and it just looked so much more exciting than the current Moto GP stuff, although unlike F1 you do at least get some close racing and overtaking!
Perhaps it is an age thing; Formula E may be televised but I just don't want to watch cr*p like that. It may be a technical challenge but how can it be PH if the only pistons are in the brakes?
For me it's a much better spectacle if the cars do slide about a bit, can follow each other closely enough to be able to try to overtake, have tyres that don't overheat or grain as soon as they do a few quick laps and that sound fantastic!
Maybe why I seem to prefer to go to race meetings with classic cars than current stuff.
True of bikes as well - I watched a programme on TV the other night about the 2-stroke GP era when Wayne Rainey, Kevin Schwantz, Randy Mamola and Co. were racing and it just looked so much more exciting than the current Moto GP stuff, although unlike F1 you do at least get some close racing and overtaking!
Perhaps it is an age thing; Formula E may be televised but I just don't want to watch cr*p like that. It may be a technical challenge but how can it be PH if the only pistons are in the brakes?
RGambo said:
Yep and Porsche has .. Wait for it a turbo v4, audi a deisel and the commentators have yet to mention the noise, why? because it doesn't bloody matter! They have limited tyres, limited fuel capacity and yet they just get on with it.
I know that it is a totally different disabling, but throughout the whole coverage ( including the practice and qualifying) not body has really mentioned 'the show' it's just enjoying what they do. Maybe if F1 just had some stable rules and the promoter started promoting what he's got, not bhing about what he would like F1 would stand a chance.
At the moment every man and his dog has an opinion about how to make F1 better, the rule makers seem to have given control of the regulations to the teams ( which is frankly idiotic)
F1 seems too scared to put down plans and regulations in fear of upsetting large multinational companies. Yes , some might leave, it happened in WEC , it was in the doldrums for a number of years, but they got the rules right and the manufactures have returned.
Do I really care if RED BULL pulls out because dietrichtz mattesich doesn't like loosing ? No! For all the criticism of Ron Dennis,, maclaren are there what ever the regulations, so too Williams.
Sorry about the mini rant, but watching the sport I have loved for my whole life ( 40+years) pull itself apart is depressing.
Rant away. I agree with much of what you say.I know that it is a totally different disabling, but throughout the whole coverage ( including the practice and qualifying) not body has really mentioned 'the show' it's just enjoying what they do. Maybe if F1 just had some stable rules and the promoter started promoting what he's got, not b
hing about what he would like F1 would stand a chance. At the moment every man and his dog has an opinion about how to make F1 better, the rule makers seem to have given control of the regulations to the teams ( which is frankly idiotic)
F1 seems too scared to put down plans and regulations in fear of upsetting large multinational companies. Yes , some might leave, it happened in WEC , it was in the doldrums for a number of years, but they got the rules right and the manufactures have returned.
Do I really care if RED BULL pulls out because dietrichtz mattesich doesn't like loosing ? No! For all the criticism of Ron Dennis,, maclaren are there what ever the regulations, so too Williams.
Sorry about the mini rant, but watching the sport I have loved for my whole life ( 40+years) pull itself apart is depressing.
I think the doldrums you mentioned were more political than regulatory. I was talking to a team owner at a LMES race at Silverstone. There was little or no advertising and although it was teaming with rain, the grandstands were not opened. The team owner said that two things had come together: a race organised by the ACO and Silverstone negotiating for the rights to stage the GP. They were going to get it but it was a question of cost.
I don't know if that was true of course.
I was at Brands one year at Paddock in the stands and the Mercs and Jags were overtaking slower cars into the bend at quite prodigious speeds. Awe inspiring - right up until the two Mercs collided at Clearways. Race over about an our in.
In the YouTube video I think you may need to allow for passionate, knowledgeable Japanese fans, the Senna factor and Senna driving the best car powered by the best engine that happened be made in Japan.
Trying to appeal to too many voters, sorry viewers, F1 has disappeared up its own rear diffuser. Fireworks, Rock Concerts etc.
In making it about energy usage and reliability it's treading on the toes of WEC and LeMans.
Electric F1? I channel hopped between the Moscow race and the BBC F1 coverage. I couldn't get into it. The Zizzzzzz noise and all the talk of performance Vs battery life.
Perhaps the subliminal message was that the oil won't last forever so we'll get further if we just ease off of the accelerator a little?
I'm not sure who was the biggest loser from last weekends dreary Grand Prix? F1 or Montreal? Canada usually serves up a decent race even if it's once been fluffed up by questionable use of the Safety Car.
Trying to appeal to too many voters, sorry viewers, F1 has disappeared up its own rear diffuser. Fireworks, Rock Concerts etc.
In making it about energy usage and reliability it's treading on the toes of WEC and LeMans.
Electric F1? I channel hopped between the Moscow race and the BBC F1 coverage. I couldn't get into it. The Zizzzzzz noise and all the talk of performance Vs battery life.
Perhaps the subliminal message was that the oil won't last forever so we'll get further if we just ease off of the accelerator a little?
I'm not sure who was the biggest loser from last weekends dreary Grand Prix? F1 or Montreal? Canada usually serves up a decent race even if it's once been fluffed up by questionable use of the Safety Car.
paulguitar said:
Hello everyone. If you have a few minutes, have a look at the video, and ideally listen through headphones or with good quality speakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMVTTG-uuiQ
I am just wondering how we have got so far from this........Even through an old low-res video, the atmosphere is palpable and cars are viscerally mind-blowing.
I realize quite often back then (as now), the races could be processional, but what a procession! I would so love to have anything approaching that kind of F1 back now.
What do you think we could do to try to make it impressive again?
Partially to reiterate my previous post about that being a good GP to pick due to the Japanese being into F1, Senna in a McLaren powered by Honda, you want to listen to this from 10 minutes 50 seconds in:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMVTTG-uuiQ
I am just wondering how we have got so far from this........Even through an old low-res video, the atmosphere is palpable and cars are viscerally mind-blowing.
I realize quite often back then (as now), the races could be processional, but what a procession! I would so love to have anything approaching that kind of F1 back now.
What do you think we could do to try to make it impressive again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzSIN1hnrAM
It's a review of last weekend's Canadian GP. It mentions the enthusiastic Canadian crowd and the 'show'.
Looking back to the 2011 Canadian GP won by Button in a McLaren, perhaps Bernie's Sprinklers idea has some merit?
Eric Mc said:
Sack 250 of the team personnel leaving only 50 as a maximum available pool of staff. That would -
a) slash the budgets
b) reduce the technical capability of the team
c) reduce the "knowledge base" available
Racing cars are at their most exciting when the designers aren't really sure what they are doing.
The teams would just spend the spare money on more computing power for more computer modelling. The cars would become more anodyne than now.a) slash the budgets
b) reduce the technical capability of the team
c) reduce the "knowledge base" available
Racing cars are at their most exciting when the designers aren't really sure what they are doing.
Less prescriptive regulations
For example, ditch the engine regulations and replace with something simple like you get 150kg of fuel ( provided by FIA so no special brews ) for a race ( and you have to fill the car up ) - how you use it is up to you. You can have engines with any number of cylinders or capacity you like, and any amount of hybrid regeneration you like. Only restriction being average fuel consumption during the race to be fairly constant to avoid dumping of excess fuel/weight early on.
Chassis - any layout you like - 2WD, 4WD, 6WD, whatever. You can have a tricycle if you want
Reduce aero through things like mandating smaller, single element wings, raised ground clearance. Maybe something radical like no bodywork or floor aft of the front of the engine ( so we can admire the engines like the old days
)
At least two tyre suppliers and no regulations about running 'both compounds'
For example, ditch the engine regulations and replace with something simple like you get 150kg of fuel ( provided by FIA so no special brews ) for a race ( and you have to fill the car up ) - how you use it is up to you. You can have engines with any number of cylinders or capacity you like, and any amount of hybrid regeneration you like. Only restriction being average fuel consumption during the race to be fairly constant to avoid dumping of excess fuel/weight early on.
Chassis - any layout you like - 2WD, 4WD, 6WD, whatever. You can have a tricycle if you want
Reduce aero through things like mandating smaller, single element wings, raised ground clearance. Maybe something radical like no bodywork or floor aft of the front of the engine ( so we can admire the engines like the old days
)At least two tyre suppliers and no regulations about running 'both compounds'
Edited by MartG on Thursday 18th June 19:10
oyster said:
The teams would just spend the spare money on more computing power for more computer modelling. The cars would become more anodyne than now.
Only if the models accurately predicted what the cars would do - which is never a foregone conclusion.And would the computer modelling not be restricted if the staff numbers were restricted too?
MartG said:
Less prescriptive regulations
For example, ditch the engine regulations and replace with something simple like you get 150kg of fuel ( provided by FIA so no special brews ) for a race ( and you have to fill the car up ) - how you use it is up to you. You can have engines with any number of cylinders or capacity you like, and any amount of hybrid regeneration you like. Only restriction being average fuel consumption during the race to be fairly constant to avoid dumping of excess fuel/weight early on.
Chassis - any layout you like - 2WD, 4WD, 6WD, whatever. You can have a tricycle if you want
Reduce aero through things like mandating smaller, single element wings, raised ground clearance. Maybe something radical like no bodywork or floor aft of the front of the engine ( so we can admire the engines like the old days )
At least two tyre suppliers and no regulations about running 'both compounds'
That would cause major issues for most teams - nearly all have fuel producers as major or even title sponsors. Why would they want to continue their sponsorship?For example, ditch the engine regulations and replace with something simple like you get 150kg of fuel ( provided by FIA so no special brews ) for a race ( and you have to fill the car up ) - how you use it is up to you. You can have engines with any number of cylinders or capacity you like, and any amount of hybrid regeneration you like. Only restriction being average fuel consumption during the race to be fairly constant to avoid dumping of excess fuel/weight early on.
Chassis - any layout you like - 2WD, 4WD, 6WD, whatever. You can have a tricycle if you want
Reduce aero through things like mandating smaller, single element wings, raised ground clearance. Maybe something radical like no bodywork or floor aft of the front of the engine ( so we can admire the engines like the old days
)At least two tyre suppliers and no regulations about running 'both compounds'
Edited by MartG on Thursday 18th June 19:10
The thing is - Is it really that bad atm?
I remember falling asleep during the F1 for most of the 90's, even if the cars sounded & looked more impressive it still lead to dull racing.
What we do need is more characters, more interaction, less cost to the punter, and maybe a little more variety in what we are watching - Can anyone tell the tracks apart (except Spa / Monaco / Silverstone?) I can remember F1 blasting though the straights at Hockenheim in mega low downforce trim, which gave a real sense of speed through the trees, and then being almost undrivable through the concrete stadium section. Unfortunately its just a little samey at present.
I remember falling asleep during the F1 for most of the 90's, even if the cars sounded & looked more impressive it still lead to dull racing.
What we do need is more characters, more interaction, less cost to the punter, and maybe a little more variety in what we are watching - Can anyone tell the tracks apart (except Spa / Monaco / Silverstone?) I can remember F1 blasting though the straights at Hockenheim in mega low downforce trim, which gave a real sense of speed through the trees, and then being almost undrivable through the concrete stadium section. Unfortunately its just a little samey at present.
I'm not sure I remember a time when F1 was in such a bad state. Mercedes aside it's become a boring procession of broken, uncompetitive cars, hampered by lack of testing, penalised by grid penalties for daring to break down, despite the rules creating the most complicated cars every to creep around a race track...and don't get me started on the tyres!
In between nodding off nothing happend after the first corner. Utterley boring and predicitable.The penalties given out are now deciding races giving Hamilton 5 seconds penalty ended his charge for victory and Red Bull and McClaren are just not at the races. 1 car lapped 3 times 5 lapped at least once.
This season is killing F1 for me
This season is killing F1 for me
Unlimited fuel, so if you want to go balls-out all race, you have to eat the extra weight.
No turbos, no regen or KERS, or whatever the f##k it's called this year!
Optional number of cylinders, as long as all engines are the same capacity (big).
Get rid of qualifying, the driver with the highest cumulative points starts at the back each race, and vice versa. Should shake up the results a bit.
They are just a bunch of turbo-aero-milkfloats.
I still watch all the races, and even the qualifying, but despite having Sky, watch BBC 'cos it's shorter.
Christ, Sky even has some tt giving live commentary as the trucks are being loaded up after the race!
Rant over.
No turbos, no regen or KERS, or whatever the f##k it's called this year!
Optional number of cylinders, as long as all engines are the same capacity (big).
Get rid of qualifying, the driver with the highest cumulative points starts at the back each race, and vice versa. Should shake up the results a bit.
They are just a bunch of turbo-aero-milkfloats.
I still watch all the races, and even the qualifying, but despite having Sky, watch BBC 'cos it's shorter.
Christ, Sky even has some t
t giving live commentary as the trucks are being loaded up after the race!Rant over.
Take away all spoilers and airfoils, so less dirty air preventing overtaking
De-restrict tyres completely, so more mechanical grip replacing downforce for to maintain high corner speeds
Allow teams to run chassis that they haven't built, so allowing privateer entrants
Allow teams to use any engine they like, so allowing massively powerful motors.
Result - exciting racing.
And by the way, F1 has gone 'backwards' before - remember adaptive suspension, traction control, ground effect fans, etc. All very high tech stuff. All banned.
De-restrict tyres completely, so more mechanical grip replacing downforce for to maintain high corner speeds
Allow teams to run chassis that they haven't built, so allowing privateer entrants
Allow teams to use any engine they like, so allowing massively powerful motors.
Result - exciting racing.
And by the way, F1 has gone 'backwards' before - remember adaptive suspension, traction control, ground effect fans, etc. All very high tech stuff. All banned.
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